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View Poll Results: What type of softsubs would you like to download?
Matroska (MKV) with SRT subs 20 18.87%
Matroska (MKV) with SSA subs (colors and fonts, but heavier on CPU) 61 57.55%
Ogg Media (OGM) with SRT subs 21 19.81%
Apple QuickTime (MOV) with Flash subs 4 3.77%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-10-18, 23:50   Link #21
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
What's wrong with producing a script and just distributing it with the raw episode?
Can you imagine how much more tech support we'd have to deal with if we did that?

Feel free to swipe my sub files, though. I don't feel any obligation to keep them secret from ALL THOSE OTHER TERRIBLE FANSUB GROUPS OUT THERE WHO MIGHT TAKE THEM WITHOUT GIVING ME CREDIT OH MY GOD.
Here you go: http://ashitaka-san.home.comcast.net/adhoc/
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Old 2004-10-19, 00:00   Link #22
Somedude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
If you must choose between those in the poll, then OGM. Cross platform adaptations like MOV, 3ivx and QT never work right, and MKV has no support on Windows Media Player, even from its own developers.
MKV works fine in both WMP classic and WMP 10 (I don't have WMP 9, but I expect it would work fine in that too). Both OGM and MKV are compatible across virtually all platforms (Computer platforms, before we get the whiners with DVD players in here. ).
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Old 2004-10-19, 00:52   Link #23
taeli
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Like boneyjellyfish I vote Matroska / SSA. It's designed for this kinda thing from the word go, where as OGM is hacked to bits from OGG. Matroska supports far more little options such as unicode subtitles, ssa subtitles, a crazy number of subtitles / audio streams, bframes natively, menus, properly designed chapters, omg everthing!

I'll download whatever you're subbing to show my support for superior video containers

ps: I can't wait for the world where everyone has the matroska filters installed.
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Old 2004-10-19, 02:18   Link #24
LK_LoA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Feel free to swipe my sub files, though. I don't feel any obligation to keep them secret from ALL THOSE OTHER TERRIBLE FANSUB GROUPS OUT THERE WHO MIGHT TAKE THEM WITHOUT GIVING ME CREDIT OH MY GOD.
Here you go: http://ashitaka-san.home.comcast.net/adhoc/
Woah. My ideal fansubber!
You give away scripts, you believe in soft-subs only and you're subbing Tsukiyomi! If you were a girl, I will be after you. ^_^
Peace and Love!
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Old 2004-10-19, 04:06   Link #25
subcool
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OGM and MKV should only be used for DVD rips with multiple audio/subtitle streams. its is useless for anything else. Also, softsubs are retarted. Slower comp (or any comp really) would hate rendering karaoke effects. Its like asking, "hi, i want you to steal my effects where i worked so god damn hard on and use it without crediting me..." And if you only encode the karaoke on the video and dialogue on the softsubs thats even more useless...

Conclusion, softsubs are useless and retarted. OGM and MKV are useless for standard anime encodes (non dvd rips with 1 audio and sub stream). MPEG4 codecs are a lot better for that =P
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Old 2004-10-19, 07:28   Link #26
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subcool
Slower comp (or any comp really) would hate rendering karaoke effects.
What's the point of animated karaoke, except to distract the viewer from a bad translation? Can someone explain this to me?

It seems to me you'd have to be somewhat retarded to need a bouncing ball to guide you along the lyrics. If you don't know how the rhythm of the song goes, you are probably going to make mistakes singing it anyway!
Quote:
Originally Posted by subcool
Its like asking, "hi, i want you to steal my effects where i worked so god damn hard on and use it without crediting me..."
What's your problem?

Go ahead, steal my scripts. Steal all of them. There is no reason for me to protect translations that are not even legal under international copyright law. It is petty, greedy, and idiotic for any fansub group to withhold scripts.

(edited from "to have a contrary opinion"...)

Last edited by Shii; 2004-10-19 at 11:24.
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Old 2004-10-19, 07:42   Link #27
Enragin_Angel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subcool
OGM and MKV should only be used for DVD rips with multiple audio/subtitle streams. its is useless for anything else. Also, softsubs are retarted. Slower comp (or any comp really) would hate rendering karaoke effects. Its like asking, "hi, i want you to steal my effects where i worked so god damn hard on and use it without crediting me..." And if you only encode the karaoke on the video and dialogue on the softsubs thats even more useless...

Conclusion, softsubs are useless and retarted. OGM and MKV are useless for standard anime encodes (non dvd rips with 1 audio and sub stream). MPEG4 codecs are a lot better for that =P
You're "retarted" for not knowing how to spell retarded. That aside, mkv also supports variable framerate. Many animes today have variable framerate and fansub groups just work around this by decimating 30fps parts to 24fps, resulting in a jerky looking encode. For those encoders who wanna step to a higher level of quality, they can use mkv which natively supports vfr.

Also, you can still hardsub in karaoke effects into mkv for your fancy ass scripts if you so choose to. But fancy karaoke effects cannot be softsubbed unfortunately. But hey...are you downloading for karaoke or are you downloading for anime?
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Old 2004-10-19, 09:52   Link #28
hooliganj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Go ahead, steal my scripts. Steal all of them. There is no reason for me to protect translations that are not even legal under international copyright law. It is petty, greedy, and idiotic for any fansub group to have a contrary opinion.
It's never idiotic to hold a contrary opinion. That having been said, I agree that it makes no sense for a fansubber to get uptight about receiving credit for their work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enragin_Angel
Many animes today have variable framerate and fansub groups just work around this by decimating 30fps parts to 24fps, resulting in a jerky looking encode.
No TV series has a variable framerate. NTSC TV broadcasts at a rate of 24 fps, and while not every frame contains new animation, they all have to be there for the show to air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somedude
MKV works fine in both WMP classic and WMP 10 (I don't have WMP 9, but I expect it would work fine in that too). Both OGM and MKV are compatible across virtually all platforms (Computer platforms, before we get the whiners with DVD players in here. ).
I'll be honest, I think I was still using WMP 8 the last time I tried to get MKV to work. If the compatibility issues have been resolved, then that's great, but my bad experiences have left me biased after all.
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Old 2004-10-19, 11:22   Link #29
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
It's never idiotic to hold a contrary opinion. That having been said, I agree that it makes no sense for a fansubber to get uptight about receiving credit for their work.
I can't think of how one would make a sensible argument against releasing scripts, but if anyone wishes to debate me on this, feel free to post instead of just giving me anonymous, incoherent negative reputation!

Looks like we have an overwhelming majority for SSA here, so I'll talk to my translator about it.
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Old 2004-10-19, 11:31   Link #30
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
I can't think of how one would make a sensible argument against releasing scripts, but if anyone wishes to debate me on this, feel free to post instead of just giving me anonymous, incoherent negative reputation!

Looks like we have an overwhelming majority for SSA here, so I'll talk to my translator about it.
I would have given you + rep, but I already gave you + rep not too long ago :P
Personally, I'd say OGM, but I don't mind MKV either, as long as they work on my computer.
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Old 2004-10-19, 11:39   Link #31
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
Personally, I'd say OGM, but I don't mind MKV either, as long as they work on my computer.
If you installed the DefilerPak or some other type of good codec pack, MKV will work just as well as OGM. According to Evirus, better even.

Also, this means I will be able to resize the Japanese credits so that they don't take up as much room.
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Old 2004-10-19, 11:58   Link #32
Enragin_Angel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
No TV series has a variable framerate. NTSC TV broadcasts at a rate of 24 fps, and while not every frame contains new animation, they all have to be there for the show to air.
You are totally wrong. #1 NTSC broadcasts at a rate of 60 fields per second/30 frames per second. #2 There are tons of series with variable framerate....my favorite example is Naruto.
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Old 2004-10-19, 12:05   Link #33
Zarxrax
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I like MKV with SSA subs as well. I'd release in that if the other guys in my group wouldn't kill me over it XD. Variable Framerate + Ogg or AAC audio is what makes the container worth it in my opinion.
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Old 2004-10-19, 13:28   Link #34
GarBhaD
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I don't care what format you use. Both OGM and MKV are way better than AVI. And I'm agree with you in the use of softsubs: to hell with re-encoded video!
The only drawback of OGM is that seeking isn't all that great.
The only drawback of MKV is that it doesn't select the default language If it wasn't for that, MKV would be perfect. I use MPC latest version. Does the Defilerpack include a proper splitter to choose it?
I tried TCMP which allowed to choose language for both OGM and MKV but the player was a bit slower than MPC and since I'm used to it...
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Old 2004-10-19, 21:03   Link #35
hooliganj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enragin_Angel
You are totally wrong. #1 NTSC broadcasts at a rate of 60 fields per second/30 frames per second. #2 There are tons of series with variable framerate....my favorite example is Naruto.
You might get 30 fps on a Hi-Def feed, but even my digital cable service only runs at 24 fps. And Naruto is not variable framerate. Some sections of it have better animation than others, resulting in actual movement occuring in every frame, where as some are so bad that you only get movement once every 4 or 5 frames, but that's not what 'variable frame rate' means. I'd bet good money that even the studio's master copy contains 24 frames per second, with no variation.
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Old 2004-10-19, 21:26   Link #36
Zarxrax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
You might get 30 fps on a Hi-Def feed, but even my digital cable service only runs at 24 fps. And Naruto is not variable framerate. Some sections of it have better animation than others, resulting in actual movement occuring in every frame, where as some are so bad that you only get movement once every 4 or 5 frames, but that's not what 'variable frame rate' means. I'd bet good money that even the studio's master copy contains 24 frames per second, with no variation.

Please go and learn about what you are talking about before you continue to embarrass yourself further.
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Old 2004-10-19, 21:37   Link #37
AndrewLB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LK_LoA
Woah. My ideal fansubber!
You give away scripts, you believe in soft-subs only and you're subbing Tsukiyomi! If you were a girl, I will be after you. ^_^
Peace and Love!
Just so you know, a few groups make their scripts available. Just, they generally do so after the R2 is released. I know "We Suck" did.

Anyway, it's nice to see someone releasing scripts for a show instead of hard subbing the shit. Too bad he's not doing it for a good show (like Ring ni Kakero).
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Old 2004-10-19, 21:43   Link #38
Darth_E_
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
You might get 30 fps on a Hi-Def feed, but even my digital cable service only runs at 24 fps. And Naruto is not variable framerate. Some sections of it have better animation than others, resulting in actual movement occuring in every frame, where as some are so bad that you only get movement once every 4 or 5 frames, but that's not what 'variable frame rate' means. I'd bet good money that even the studio's master copy contains 24 frames per second, with no variation.
wrong. Naruto's Fighting Dreamers op was on 30 FPS, the rest of the episode was 24 eps. The op did look jerky with some groups' versions due to improper decimation. When I used to encode it , I did it at 30 FPS and lost bitrate for the ep itself, and either way, I didnt like both situations. MKV solves this problem by vfr, too bad many people dont realise the superioity of this container over the old avi :/

Yours,
-Elly
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Old 2004-10-20, 01:06   Link #39
dkellis
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As a complete tech idiot and n00b, I suppose the question I'd ask is: how much more effort will it take to watch whatever option is chosen?

The Media Configuration Guide on the forums is stickied, with a great big READ ME FIRST tag, so most clueless n00bs like myself would go there first if they find that something isn't working (assuming we don't create a dumb thread asking first, of course). And now, to watch a specific anime by a specific fansub group, we are told to ignore that Media Configuration Guide.

I'm sure you can understand the wary confusion.

Personally I'd appreciate it if there were a way to deal with softsubs using the "recommended multiplatform quick-and-easy players" listed in the Guide, but it seems either impossible or too complicated for tech-ignorant fans like myself.
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Old 2004-10-20, 02:18   Link #40
Shii
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It's 3 AM and I have an OGM but no typesetter. Hence: OGM this time around. MKV next time, probably.
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