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View Poll Results: What type of softsubs would you like to download?
Matroska (MKV) with SRT subs 20 18.87%
Matroska (MKV) with SSA subs (colors and fonts, but heavier on CPU) 61 57.55%
Ogg Media (OGM) with SRT subs 21 19.81%
Apple QuickTime (MOV) with Flash subs 4 3.77%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-10-20, 02:29   Link #41
Thany
Unfair
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
If you installed the DefilerPak or some other type of good codec pack, MKV will work just as well as OGM. According to Evirus, better even.

Also, this means I will be able to resize the Japanese credits so that they don't take up as much room.
I've got the codecs for MKV on CD anyway, since some French fansubbers seemed to like to use MKV, so it should work.
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Old 2004-10-20, 02:44   Link #42
hooliganj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elly
wrong. Naruto's Fighting Dreamers op was on 30 FPS, the rest of the episode was 24 eps. The op did look jerky with some groups' versions due to improper decimation. When I used to encode it , I did it at 30 FPS and lost bitrate for the ep itself, and either way, I didnt like both situations. MKV solves this problem by vfr, too bad many people dont realise the superioity of this container over the old avi :/

Yours,
-Elly
Hmm... I suppose this means that if Naruto were to run on TV in my area, they would have to decimate the opening just to air it. That's pretty bizarre, especially considering that that particular opening didn't contain anything that needed a higher frame count. The new one, on the other hand...

Thank you, BTW, for answering, and not just making random accusations and actually contributing to a discussion, even if it is . I'm not so easily embarassed as to let mere ignorance stand in the way of my education.
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Old 2004-10-20, 02:52   Link #43
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
Hmm... I suppose this means that if Naruto were to run on TV in my area, they would have to decimate the opening just to air it. That's pretty bizarre, especially considering that that particular opening didn't contain anything that needed a higher frame count. The new one, on the other hand...
Anime production often does some post production in 30fps, such as panning and credits. A really bad case of that was Full Metal Panic, where the flash coming from the launch rockets on the mecha was going at 30 fps while the actual animation was 24 fps.
If you're watching PAL, yes they'll have to do something to bring it down to 25 fps
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Old 2004-10-20, 09:33   Link #44
subcool
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enragin_Angel
You're "retarted" for not knowing how to spell retarded. That aside, mkv also supports variable framerate. Many animes today have variable framerate and fansub groups just work around this by decimating 30fps parts to 24fps, resulting in a jerky looking encode. For those encoders who wanna step to a higher level of quality, they can use mkv which natively supports vfr.

Also, you can still hardsub in karaoke effects into mkv for your fancy ass scripts if you so choose to. But fancy karaoke effects cannot be softsubbed unfortunately. But hey...are you downloading for karaoke or are you downloading for anime?
1. English is not my native language, so sue me...
2. Most TV rips have constant bitrates (NTSC or PAL) and if they dont a GOOD encoder would make the encode look _not_ jerky.
3. Karaoke, imo, should be part of the fansubbing. i like shitty karaoke as much as i like shitty encodes. (I dont like em at all =P). And having karaoke is the releases is like getting a free 2nd pizza when you only ordered one. its a bonus =P
4. What (besides letting people customize (steal) your scripts) advantages do softsubs have?

And what if the raw you used is like (almost) perfect quality but its 350 MB for 20-25 mins (yes, i saw those kinda raws) would you re-encode it to 175 MB? or leave it at this huge size? while you can make it look (note: i said LOOK, as in for human eyes) more or less the same when encoding to 175 MB with decent filters and settings =P

I still prefer MPEG4/AVI over any other containers =p
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Old 2004-10-20, 10:28   Link #45
DryMaltExtract
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Hmmm.....well....the first 3 eps are already done in ogm with srt, why not just keep it that to be consistent? (No, I will never be satisfied, I'm fickle)
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Old 2004-10-20, 12:15   Link #46
SirCanealot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
It's 3 AM and I have an OGM but no typesetter. Hence: OGM this time around. MKV next time, probably.
You rang?

LOTs of Framerates run in Variable Bitrates. LOTS.
But, NTSC is 29.97fps. How do they do this?
3:2 pull down - go and read up on it.
Anime now is commonly a mix of 30fps interlaced and 24fps with 3:2 pulldown applied to it.

And there's NO simple way with common encoding tools (AVISynth/VirtualDub) to Decimate 30fps segments, unless I'm very mistaken, and I've missed some miracle tool. Decimatation is the act of removing frames - you can pick and choose which ones to remove, and that's about it.
And running the episode at 30fps isn't any good either - then the 24fps segments will be jerky, heh.

Karaoke owns.

Quote:
4. What (besides letting people customize (steal) your scripts) advantages do softsubs have?
Clearer, higher res than fansubs; karaoke runs at a higher framerate. No annoying ringing/detail loss around the subs.

Quote:
while you can make it look (note: i said LOOK, as in for human eyes) more or less the same when encoding to 175 MB with decent filters and settings =P
Me and RX782 (dbzgundam) have ALIEN eyes. Provide for us, damnit.
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Old 2004-10-20, 20:17   Link #47
Breogan
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I think it would be cool if you released in mkv with both SSA and SRT as options, so those with slower CPUs can just go with the SRT stream and those that want fancy stuff can use the SSA stream.
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Old 2004-11-05, 17:27   Link #48
ChristianHJW
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
If you must choose between those in the poll, then OGM. Cross platform adaptations like MOV, 3ivx and QT never work right, and MKV has no support on Windows Media Player, even from its own developers.
... si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses .... in other words, just shut up if you have no clue what you are talking about.

Else check the number of downloads here http://packs.matroska.org

ChristianHJW
matroska project admin
http://www.matroska.org
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Old 2004-11-07, 20:17   Link #49
kagelump
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i'd just prefer something that works natively with winamp, and neither of the three does (yes, i know winamp is weak as a video player, but i still like it)

and i still prefer hardsubs as softsubs tend to mess up on my computer, like there are sometimes characters missing, spaces missing, etc (likely to change in the future)

with that said, ogm crashes more often than mkv, so i prefer mkv
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Old 2004-11-07, 20:31   Link #50
hooliganj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianHJW
... si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses .... in other words, just shut up if you have no clue what you are talking about.

Else check the number of downloads here http://packs.matroska.org

ChristianHJW
matroska project admin
http://www.matroska.org
Ah, again someone gets insulting without good reason. I am truly and well depressed and discouraged, and my day has been ruined... not.

I have actually tried running the light pack, but it seems to be missing something. WMP10 still wouldn't recognize MKV as a valid media format. So, I uninstall that, clean up the mess, reboot, and try again with the full pack. This time WMP10 recognized it as media, but crashed when trying to play it. Furthermore, it crashed when trying to play any media file, even WAVs. Once again, unistall, clean up, reboot. Now I can play everything else just fine, but I'm back to square one with MKVs.

All this was done several weeks ago. As you so elegantly pointed out, I shouldn't post anything if I don't know what I'm talking about, so I didn't. From what I can see, support for WMP10 isn't in place.

As much as I appreciate ADTRW's efforts, I'm going to have to wait for another group to get the eps out.
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Old 2004-11-08, 00:50   Link #51
babbito2k
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Join Date: Jan 2004
I rather have ogm, as mkv can be too hard to demux (something about only being able to demux certain sub files with VirtualDubMod). As long as it's something I can easily mess around with, it's fine by me if you don't want to do .avis -- I'll just make them for myself when I get it home.
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Old 2004-11-08, 01:10   Link #52
sOnJoOL
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i like seperate subs. the .smi files.
because i like it like that.
most of korean subs are like that.
i disike ogm and mkv.
i dont care if a video is low qual, as long as it doesnt lag.l
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Old 2004-11-08, 01:26   Link #53
Alterscape
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Just for the record, NTSC, used in North America and Japan is 29.97 FPS. PAL, used in Europe, is 24 FPS.

Yes, some animation is shot "on the twos" so you could conceivably save space with variable framerate encoding, but it seems like a lot of work with potential for errors.

I'm not sold on Matriska, or whatever it's called, yet. I do work with AMVs and whatnot so I can appreciate the utility of turning off subs ,but if I really want to turn off subs, I can get raws. The only real setting where I can see it being useful is if you had multiple sub files -- multiple languages, or subs and then signs and translators notes on a seperate file, for example -- and even then the additional software and hassle seems to make a pretty good case for plain ol' AVI.

I love being an early adopter as much as the next guy, buuut..
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Old 2004-11-08, 07:33   Link #54
Zarxrax
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Thanks for spouting out completely wrong information "for the record".
Correct statements about fps were made previously in this thread, which you apparently didn't read. So, please spare us your vast and impeccable knowledge.
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Old 2004-11-08, 11:10   Link #55
Kanna
The Triad
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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"For the record", PAL is 625 lines at 25fps.
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Old 2004-11-08, 16:34   Link #56
mattheus123
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The problem with subs in mkv or ogm is that if you plan to do something fancy fx/typesetting, there's a fallback to this method since ppl can rip off those subs and copy/learn the fx which may or may not be good for the person who work hard on the effects.

As for my preference, it doesnt really matter as long as I can see the sub and the sub is free of error like (spacing error,spelling error, and quotation error). As for special effects, you dont really need it. Many ppl dont even pay attention to it. Why overwork yourself over such petty pretty effects? Just work on making sure the subs look good and error proof (pertains to fansubbing). As for dvd ripping, DONT GET LAZY and not check the subs. Subrip can screw up when you are ripping it from the dvd. Make sure to check it.

Hehe that's my two cents
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Old 2004-11-08, 17:45   Link #57
Shii
Afflicted by the vanities
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattheus123
The problem with subs in mkv or ogm is that if you plan to do something fancy fx/typesetting, there's a fallback to this method since ppl can rip off those subs and copy/learn the fx which may or may not be good for the person who work hard on the effects.
Heaven knows you wouldn't want people knowing the secrets of typesetting without having first gone through the initiation ritual.
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Old 2004-11-08, 19:20   Link #58
SirCanealot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alterscape
Just for the record, NTSC, used in North America and Japan is 29.97 FPS. PAL, used in Europe, is 24 FPS.
PAL is 24fps?
You don't know... the pain that... causes me... 0_o
Edit: Note: Sarcasm implied.

Quote:
The problem with subs in mkv or ogm is that if you plan to do something fancy fx/typesetting, there's a fallback to this method since ppl can rip off those subs and copy/learn the fx which may or may not be good for the person who work hard on the effects.
Yes, I agree, dear god, you wouldn't want anyone to... LEARN anything, would you!?
Tight lipped fansubers < * -_-
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Last edited by SirCanealot; 2004-11-10 at 18:05.
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Old 2004-11-09, 18:49   Link #59
Mr VacBob
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCanealot
PAL is 24fps?
You don't know... the pain that... causes me... 0_o
PAL is 25fps interlaced: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL
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Old 2004-11-30, 14:17   Link #60
hooliganj
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I am briefly resurrecting this thread to provide a link that I found useful, since I finally got MKV working on my machine, and with WMP10 to boot. If anyone else is still having problems with it (and doesn't want to 'defile' their computer), check out Lazy Man's Guide to Ogg Media and Lazy Man's Guide to Matroska Video. If you need any further help installing VSFilter, VideoHelp.com has directions, just go to the tools section and search for VobSub.

Hooray, it finally works!
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