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Old 2004-08-08, 17:14   Link #341
UserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi
lol, no Sharingan has the prediction ability, not Byakugan. Not sure how you got confused between the two. Neji would not see Hakus speed, he could however see everything in 360 radius.

Sharingan does use prediction to dodge/evade attacks. The sharingan user can see the attack immediately regardless of speed, then proceeds to start an attack or block to stop it. Watch the fight with Haku, or the fight with Sasuke vs Gaara. With Gaara Sasuke directly states he wouldnt be alive if not for the sharingan's ability to help him evade attacks.
I didn't get confused. Sharingan can see in detail and dodge it. As shown in the vision of Sasuke when ever he 'predicts'. Look up insight. And the Byakugan has higher level of insight so I would say a higher level of 'prediction'.

Did I say the sharingan can't 'predict'. It does't predict in the sense you seem to think as in seeing the future. Look at Neji's fights. Or rather just think about it.
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Old 2004-08-08, 17:14   Link #342
raikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi
Who knows why he did it, but how can you say its rediculous when they say he did that, and named it lightening edge because of this...

No, Haku attacks Naruto because he can no longer hit vital spots on Sasuke.
Yes, I can say it's ridiculous if Kakashi really did run around in a field trying to be hit by lightning.

*BOOM*
It hit fifteen meters over there! (runs)
*BOOM*
Thirty meters that way!! (runs)
(rinse and repeat until he really does get hit by lightning, which he's not even sure his jutsu can stop

It's much less ridiculous if he was the target of a Raiton jutsu and used Chidori to block the strike - which would still be 'cutting lightning'.

Haku was NEVER trying to kill Sasuke. If he had, he would have done it in the beginning. His focus was always disabling Naruto and Sasuke to take them out of the fight. He put Sasuke in the same kind of temporary stasis that he put Zabuza in.
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Old 2004-08-08, 17:19   Link #343
Dauthi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
I didn't get confused. Sharingan can see in detail and dodge it. As shown in the vision of Sasuke when ever he 'predicts'. Look up insight. And the Byakugan has higher level of insight so I would say a higher level of 'prediction'.

Did I say the sharingan can't 'predict'. It does't predict in the sense you seem to think as in seeing the future. Look at Neji's fights. Or rather just think about it.
lol.. yes you are confused. No the only "insight" byakugen gives is the ability to see more precisely, as in see the chakra holes. It also lets you see around you, and see farther than normal.

I never said he could see the future. I said he can predict where X will end up when moving X speed in a certain direction, which is why he could dodge Haku, and Gaara.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikage
Yes, I can say it's ridiculous if Kakashi really did run around in a field trying to be hit by lightning.

*BOOM*
It hit fifteen meters over there! (runs)
*BOOM*
Thirty meters that way!! (runs)
(rinse and repeat until he really does get hit by lightning, which he's not even sure his jutsu can stop

It's much less ridiculous if he was the target of a Raiton jutsu and used Chidori to block the strike - which would still be 'cutting lightning'.

Haku was NEVER trying to kill Sasuke. If he had, he would have done it in the beginning. His focus was always disabling Naruto and Sasuke to take them out of the fight. He put Sasuke in the same kind of temporary stasis that he put Zabuza in.
Ok yes you could say its rediculous in that sense.

My point is that they boast it can cut lightening, which is boasting the speed/accuracy of the skill. If they were to boast power they would say it drilled through a thick safe or something.

Yes he could have killed Sasuke before he had the sharingan out. However once it was out he could no longer put Sasuke in that stasis, thats why he attacked Naruto. He just couldnt land the hits anymore, which is my point.
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Old 2004-08-08, 17:26   Link #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi
lol.. yes you are confused. No the only "insight" byakugen gives is the ability to see more precisely, as in see the chakra holes. It also lets you see around you, and see farther than normal.

I never said he could see the future. I said he can predict where X will end up when moving X speed in a certain direction, which is why he could dodge Haku, and Gaara.

No I am not confused. You are too stupid to realize that a person will know when he's not confused and is.

The ability to see more precisely is the deal. With that you can 'predict' the future. hianta was able to see kilometers ahead of her in detail. Neji was also able to notice everyt single thing around him. He can see all in his vision. He knows exactly when something starts moving, and he knows where. There hasn't been a single thing that hit him while he wasn't activating his byakugan or was in a spot he couldn't see. Just like Sasuke won't be able to dodge something he's not looking at.

He sees things in detail. When Gaara's spikes were coming out he saw it it in detail and dodge the moment he saw it was coming out.
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Old 2004-08-08, 17:59   Link #345
Dauthi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
No I am not confused. You are too stupid to realize that a person will know when he's not confused and is.

The ability to see more precisely is the deal. With that you can 'predict' the future. hianta was able to see kilometers ahead of her in detail. Neji was also able to notice everyt single thing around him. He can see all in his vision. He knows exactly when something starts moving, and he knows where. There hasn't been a single thing that hit him while he wasn't activating his byakugan or was in a spot he couldn't see. Just like Sasuke won't be able to dodge something he's not looking at.

He sees things in detail. When Gaara's spikes were coming out he saw it it in detail and dodge the moment he saw it was coming out.

Theres no need to insult me, i have insulted you in no way.

My impression of Byakugen is that by better insight, it has the abilities to see through things, see far, and see small details that a normal eye couldnt spot, and see in a 360 degree radius.

The sharingan is different though, because it can see/predict movements as if in slow motion. Why else would Sharingan be able to copy jutsus if Byakugen had better insight in your terms?

I have yet to see Neji dodge high speed attacks, similiar to when Sasuke fights overwhelming powers such as Haku's ultra high speed attack, Oro who is Kage level speed, or Gaara transformed.

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:12   Link #346
UserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi
Theres no need to insult me, i have insulted you in no way.

My impression of Byakugen is that by better insight, it has the abilities to see through things, see far, and see small details that a normal eye couldnt spot, and see in a 360 degree radius.

The sharingan is different though, because it can see/predict movements as if in slow motion. Why else would Sharingan be able to copy jutsus if Byakugen had better insight in your terms?

I have yet to see Neji dodge high speed attacks, similiar to when Sasuke fights overwhelming powers such as Haku's ultra high speed attack, Oro who is Kage level speed, or Gaara transformed.

Spoiler:
You insulted me by calling me confused... like saying "Is that guy a mentallly retarded person?" when he really isn't.

Sharingan copies jutsu using both of it's 2 parts, hypnotism and insight. It predicts from what was shown through insight.

Do you read the manga? Neji has dodged many high speed things. Wave after wave of 'em. Even when heavily damaged.

Oro.. there is no 'kage' level speed. And Oro's forte isn't speed. I doubt he's faster than Gai. But did Oro go full out against Sasuke? Or was he just seeing what he has to offer? think about it.

Any genin? What? I want to see a genin after expelling a whole mess of kaitens and doing an hakke hit arrows from far far away wave after wave.

I can say any Genin with enough speed can do waht Sasuke did.
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:16   Link #347
jbruns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi
Oro who is Kage level speed

Please. Oro was going very easy on Sasuke.... if he was actually fighting him at even a jounin level speed Sasuke would be finished...


Also Haku was going easy on Sasuke as well... even after Sasuke got Sharingan Haku was able to get him with a few needles which were not aimed in vital areas....
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:17   Link #348
Dauthi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
You insulted me by calling me confused... like saying "Is that guy a mentallly retarded person?" when he really isn't.

Sharingan copies jutsu using both of it's 2 parts, hypnotism and insight. It predicts from what was shown through insight.

Do you read the manga? Neji has dodged many high speed things. Wave after wave of 'em. Even when heavily damaged.
No i didnt, there is nothing wrong with being confused and its in no way related to being retarded, those were your own conclusions.

Use spoiler tags.

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:18   Link #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbruns
Please. Oro was going very easy on Sasuke.... if he was actually fighting him at even a jounin level speed Sasuke would be finished...
Of course he could have, but it doesnt mean he restricted his speed. He knows what the sharingan is capable of, at least i hope.

Watch the episode again, Oro actually becomes blurry/stretchy emphasizing hes moving at a fast rate.

And no, he could no longer do anything to impede sasuke from lasting through his jutsu, thast why he attacked Naruto.
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:26   Link #350
jbruns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi
Of course he could have, but it doesnt mean he restricted his speed. He knows what the sharingan is capable of, at least i hope.

Watch the episode again, Oro actually becomes blurry/stretchy emphasizing hes moving at a fast rate.

And no, he could no longer do anything to impede sasuke from lasting through his jutsu, thast why he attacked Naruto.
Yes even if Oro was moving at very high speeds as shown and sasuke still reacted to them doesnt mean too much.. Note Sasuke fights Lee (with weights). Lee kicks Sasuke's ass. Start of Chuunin exam (Sasuke couldnt have improved when nothing actually happened bewteen the two events) he fights Oro. Sasuke blocks Oro's attacks. It can be concluded that Oro's speed is less than Lee's speed. Sasuke states that he can see Oro's speed (whereas for Lee's he couldnt react to it). Now note that Lee's speed with weights even too phenominal, sure he moves fast but not too fast and at max is like chuunin speed. At the level Oro was fighting Sasuke a Jounin could have defeated him. My only gripe with your statement was that you stated Sasuke fended off Oro (who was Kage level) even though Oro wasnt fighting anywhere near Kage level.
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:30   Link #351
UserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi
No i didnt, there is nothing wrong with being confused and its in no way related to being retarded, those were your own conclusions.

Use spoiler tags.

Spoiler:
Then Shika can do what Sasuke did if he sees it coming...
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:31   Link #352
Dauthi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbruns
Yes even if Oro was moving at very high speeds as shown and sasuke still reacted to them doesnt mean too much.. Note Sasuke fights Lee (with weights). Lee kicks Sasuke's ass. Start of Chuunin exam (Sasuke couldnt have improved when nothing actually happened bewteen the two events) he fights Oro. Sasuke blocks Oro's attacks. It can be concluded that Oro's speed is less than Lee's speed. Sasuke states that he can see Oro's speed (whereas for Lee's he couldnt react to it). Now note that Lee's speed with weights even too phenominal, sure he moves fast but not too fast and at max is like chuunin speed. At the level Oro was fighting Sasuke a Jounin could have defeated him. My only gripe with your statement was that you stated Sasuke fended off Oro (who was Kage level) even though Oro wasnt fighting anywhere near Kage level.
I understand. My reasoning behind it again, is that it shows Oro running and hes going normal pace, then he speeds up and his body starts warping, as if hes decided to speed up to test Sasukes sharingan. Its obvious that he didnt attack with his full force, but its also obvious that he was moving fast at least at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Then Shika can do what Sasuke did if he sees it coming...
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:33   Link #353
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
I didn't get confused. Sharingan can see in detail and dodge it. As shown in the vision of Sasuke when ever he 'predicts'. Look up insight. And the Byakugan has higher level of insight so I would say a higher level of 'prediction'.
The Sharingan can see through Taijutsu and predict the pattern of the attacks, it's an ability used many time in the manga.
And it's not an ability of the Byakugan which sees through things.

The Byakugan's vision allows you to see almost everything and thus to react to that, the Sharingan allows you to predict the attack and thus to react slightly before the attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raikage
Haku was NEVER trying to kill Sasuke. If he had, he would have done it in the beginning. His focus was always disabling Naruto and Sasuke to take them out of the fight. He put Sasuke in the same kind of temporary stasis that he put Zabuza in.
Haku admitted himself at the middle of their fight that he was trying to hit Sasuke's vital points but that he couldn't anymore because Sasuke was predicting his attacks.

And no jbruns, after that Sasuke get his Sharingan Haku was unable to hit him.
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:36   Link #354
jbruns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi
I understand. My reasoning behind it again, is that it shows Oro running and hes going normal pace, then he speeds up and his body starts warping, as if hes decided to speed up to test Sasukes sharingan. Its obvious that he didnt attack with his full force, but its also obvious that he was moving fast at least at that point.



[spoiler]No.. my point was that those objects being thrown at him were just that, and anyone could dodge those. There was no emphasis that they were being thrown at high speeds, like hakus attacks, or like Gaaras attacks[/spoiler}
Yea i agree, and Hunter yea i watched the ep again Haku only hits Sasuke after baiting Naruto.... so it wasnt entirely fair i guess
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:39   Link #355
The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
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Err lol kakashi cannot "cut a bolt of lighting" with chidori.

Thats just absurd.

Light travels at 299 792 458 Meteres per second.


Simply put, if light could bend, a ray of light could travel around the world 7.3 times in one second.

Even in the world of anime, i dont think kakashi is going to be cutting any lighting bolts.
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:42   Link #356
Dauthi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
Err lol kakashi cannot "cut a bolt of lighting" with chidori.

Thats just absurd.

Light travels at 299 792 458 Meteres per second.


Simply put, if light could bend, a ray of light could travel around the world 7.3 times in one second.

Even in the world of anime, i dont think kakashi is going to be cutting any lighting bolts.
Ah but in the world of anime Goku can blow up planets with a single attack Seriously, its fiction and anything can be done. It does sound lame, but it is said none the less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi
My point is that they boast it can cut lightening, which is boasting the speed/accuracy of the skill. If they were to boast power they would say it drilled through a thick safe or something.
I think that summed it up best. Whether it was true or not, they were merely emphasizing the fact that it is fast/accurate.
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Old 2004-08-08, 18:47   Link #357
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbruns
Yea i agree, and Hunter yea i watched the ep again Haku only hits Sasuke after baiting Naruto.... so it wasnt entirely fair i guess
Which was precisely the point of Haku : I can't hit him anymore whereas my jutsu uses a lot of chakra, i'm in trouble : let's use his friend as a bait.

Ninja fights haven't to be fair, Haku was smart to do that ^^
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Old 2004-08-08, 20:36   Link #358
UserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
The Sharingan can see through Taijutsu and predict the pattern of the attacks, it's an ability used many time in the manga.
And it's not an ability of the Byakugan which sees through things.

The Byakugan's vision allows you to see almost everything and thus to react to that, the Sharingan allows you to predict the attack and thus to react slightly before the attack.
I agree with the Byakugan thing which was my point. I don't think the sharingan reacts before...

tell me how it reacts before.

By seeing a pattern as in Neji did
Spoiler:
or as he did Naruto?
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Old 2004-08-08, 21:05   Link #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
I agree with the Byakugan thing which was my point. I don't think the sharingan reacts before...

tell me how it reacts before.
Don't take it bad but what about looking at predict in a dictionary?
Because predicting is about to act before, if not it's not predicting it's just reacting.
Not that the Sharigan sees the future (of course) but once it sees through the pattern of a Taijutsu style it allows its user to predict moves, thus to start to react even before the attack.
It was said several times during the fight with Haku and against Gaara.

It's not like some kind of psychic ability (though it can copy the mind too as in the first fight against Zabuza), it comes from the ability of the Sharingan to read the movements.

As what Akabane did against Ginji during their first battle for example (and if you never watched Get Backers screw you ).

Quote:
By seeing a pattern as in Neji did
Spoiler:
or as he did Naruto?
I'm not sure I understood your point about Neji, I don't really see what you talk about, can you develope that?

But anyway yeah, rather as Naruto did when he was berserk and predicted Haku's attacks like a beast.
The key word is to predict.
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Old 2004-08-09, 17:19   Link #360
Shadamehr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
Err lol kakashi cannot "cut a bolt of lighting" with chidori.

Thats just absurd.

Light travels at 299 792 458 Meteres per second.


Simply put, if light could bend, a ray of light could travel around the world 7.3 times in one second.

Even in the world of anime, i dont think kakashi is going to be cutting any lighting bolts.
1) Lightning moves significantly slower than light. It consists of moving electrons, not photons.

2) There are people in the Naruto world that move at the speed of light. Re-read Haku v. Naruto and Sasuke. If Sasuke can intercept Haku "moving with the speed of the reflections" then I'm sure Kakashi could intercept lightning.

Last edited by Shadamehr; 2004-08-09 at 17:29.
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