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Old 2004-11-08, 07:55   Link #1
EpyonEmerald
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Gundam Seed, Gundam Wing, The Difference

Alright,

I just got done watching episode four, OMG- I love Gundam..Well thats not true I love gundam wing and I love gundam Seed.

Anyways, I never expect the ending when it happens.. When the ending comes I am just like WTF..That was to short, and then I wait for another week.

MOVING ON,

I have one problem with Seed vs Wing. In Wing there are TWO times someone dis-obeys a direct order while on a ship/base. One of those times is when Traize comes to destory moble dolls and the commander in the base tells the soldier to fire on him but the soldier says no, then again the soldier works for traize so I don't know if that counts.

The Second time was on Lybra I think in episode 48? When that blonde girl jumps on Zex to stop him from blowing Traize out of exitance. (Funny both are around Traize)

But in Seed/Destiny EVERYONE ALWAYS is like WAIT! Shouldn't we re-consider? These are soldiers disputing direct orders. On a ship! I forget her name but the woman captain from Seed (not the main one the one with black hair..) SHE IS ALWAYS dis-obeying orders..Wtf? I hated her so much that when she was getting shot I was laughing. How dare her question EVERY order. Anyways. In Wing this kind of thing never happend. I don't know its the only thing that bothers me about gundam other then in space when things blow up or get damaged the smoke is flying up instead of staying put since their is no gravity.
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Old 2004-11-08, 08:26   Link #2
srb
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The only ones with formal military training on the SEED bridge are Ramius, Badgiruel and the four petty officers. Neither Ramius or Badgiruel are trained from the beginning as ship commanders and it's really a live or die situation so they go through things first. There aren't very many scenes with direct disobeying of orders.

Badgiruel questions the orders she receives since she's trained to be a hardcore military woman whilst Ramius is a lot more gentle.

I'm not annoyed by this, but I'm annoyed by Wing in its entirety :P
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Old 2004-11-08, 09:22   Link #3
Ayukat
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That is one of the things that makes Mobile Suit Gundam SEED a great series, feelings. I really dislike hardcore military shows, they are too "man" for me. Yes, I am a male.
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Old 2004-11-08, 10:31   Link #4
dreamless
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I'd say when you have superiors as insane as Azrael or as clueless as Ramius, it's only natural to disobey their orders.

The difference in Gundam SEED and Gundam Wing? well, the Gundams in SEED is not invincible so they actually dodge attacks instead of those Gundams in Wing where they don't even care to dodge attacks.
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Old 2004-11-08, 11:01   Link #5
angel_wing0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
I'd say when you have superiors as insane as Azrael or as clueless as Ramius, it's only natural to disobey their orders.

The difference in Gundam SEED and Gundam Wing? well, the Gundams in SEED is not invincible so they actually dodge attacks instead of those Gundams in Wing where they don't even care to dodge attacks.
well i remember heero piloting a leo...keeps getting hit like hell yet it never explodes...
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Old 2004-11-08, 12:25   Link #6
srb
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Same with Duo, it was ridiculous.

But in SEED they still have the "only a Gundam can defeat a Gundam" theme. I'd much rather see some really kick-ass enemy designs la Z and ZZ and Victory instead of Gundam after Gundam after Gundam.

I mean, the power of a MS is not determined by whether or not it has a facemask and a V-antenna :/
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Old 2004-11-09, 09:06   Link #7
Sanjuronord
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Originally Posted by srb
But in SEED they still have the "only a Gundam can defeat a Gundam" theme. I'd much rather see some really kick-ass enemy designs la Z and ZZ and Victory instead of Gundam after Gundam after Gundam.
Not entirely true. Kira nearly got beaten by the Bacows a few times and survived by luck/skill more than his suit (particularly against Andy), Mwu did get beaten by Klueze at the Mendel colony when Klueze wasn't in a Gundam and Mwu was. Not to mention the Astray Gundams... Though you are basically still right, though in Seed it seemed to have more to do w/ the phase shift armor than being in a Gundam since that was what seperated the Astray Gundams from the others.
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Old 2004-11-09, 14:58   Link #8
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Not to mention they had the Buster cannon in Gundam Wing. What a piece of overpowered military equipment.
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Old 2004-11-09, 16:52   Link #9
Derelict
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Originally Posted by pyu
Not to mention they had the Buster cannon in Gundam Wing. What a piece of overpowered military equipment.
DOUBLE buster cannon on Wing Zero and Custom.

Personally, I believe they're totally different series. The main characters in Wing were involved in war most of their lives, not so with SEED.
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Old 2004-11-09, 18:13   Link #10
srb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjuronord
Not entirely true. Kira nearly got beaten by the Bacows a few times and survived by luck/skill more than his suit (particularly against Andy), Mwu did get beaten by Klueze at the Mendel colony when Klueze wasn't in a Gundam and Mwu was. Not to mention the Astray Gundams... Though you are basically still right, though in Seed it seemed to have more to do w/ the phase shift armor than being in a Gundam since that was what seperated the Astray Gundams from the others.
He weren't beaten by the BaCOW's, but he was indeed struggling. Like Ramba Ral would have said, he won because of his mobile suit, although at that point in the series Kira was better than Amuro Ray was at the same time thanks to being a Coordinator and having SEED.

Strike was damaged quite severely by Creuset but then again he is the main villain, so I'm not sure if that really counts - we never saw a random grunt-piloted GuAIZ hurt a Gundam, even if they are, according to stats, just as good as or better than a first-generation GAT-X MS.

I want more Qubeleys, Messala's and Gaplants! I want fewer Gundams :/
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Old 2004-11-09, 18:28   Link #11
h22chen
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I remember 0080. Bernie in his Zaku hurt Gundam Alex, but then Gundam Alex was not piloted by Amuro.

Yea, the main villian never dies... until the end.
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Old 2004-11-09, 19:02   Link #12
HoBoZ
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something perturbed me GREATLY in gundam seed. i would've LOVED the series if it had ended when kira+ asuran killed each other, but no, they had to drag it out and go into this long crappy sophisticated ending that i found most useless.
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Old 2004-11-09, 21:24   Link #13
Derelict
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Originally Posted by HoBoZ
something perturbed me GREATLY in gundam seed. i would've LOVED the series if it had ended when kira+ asuran killed each other, but no, they had to drag it out and go into this long crappy sophisticated ending that i found most useless.
I reject the notion of Kira/Athrun killing each other and it being a better ending. To me, I thought that Athrun joining with Kira and fighting along his side, even after the surge of hate and catastrophe between them, having encountered the very edge of life, both of them noticably changed and wished for an end to the war that didn't result in a tragedy completed SEED.

The pain of Kira facing his best friend and being a traitor to his people all throughout the first half of the series was paid off with him finally not being alone against such impossible odds any longer.

Ending SEED like you said would have made it only mediocre, the gradual culmination of plot points in the second half of the series made it great.
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Old 2004-11-09, 22:12   Link #14
HoBoZ
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Just from watching this anime, i got the deeper notion that the plot they r trying to integrate into the anime was that war was pointless. From that, i thought that it would've been best proven had it followed my paths, ending tragically.
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Old 2004-11-09, 22:24   Link #15
Derelict
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Originally Posted by HoBoZ
Just from watching this anime, i got the deeper notion that the plot they r trying to integrate into the anime was that war was pointless. From that, i thought that it would've been best proven had it followed my paths, ending tragically.
Tragedy and war, they are one in the same, Kira and Athrun dying wouldn't underline that war is pointless.

SEED focused on first; dealing with the conviction that anyone, no matter who you are has someone to protect, something to carry on and that war is necessary in order to protect those things precious to you, second; that you can't act purely as a weapon, this will result in a massacre and will ultimately prolong suffering, you need to search for the right way to fight it, a way that doesn't result in one side completely being wiped out.
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Old 2004-11-09, 22:55   Link #16
HoBoZ
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uh....yea it would.

two characters, Close childhood friends? due to "conflict" between the peoples, they were forced into combat against one another ending with the death of both of them?

i said "watching this anime" only SEED, nothing beyond, nothing before.

"war is necessary", "you can't act purely as a weapon"
....what the hell is war then?....the purpose of war is to win. why would u fight to lose?
r u trying to say war is peaceful? war is reasonable? war is NECESSARY?

"protect those things precious to you"- Kira's father tried to protect the "coordinators" reign/position in the world. Earth tried to protect the well being of the future of humanity/normals. Thats a loaded statement.
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Old 2004-11-09, 22:59   Link #17
omegastar
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well i remember heero piloting a leo...keeps getting hit like hell yet it never explodes...
You know... in wing, there's something else aside from the mobile suit armor... and that is called "character armor". The leos burn like oil, but they become invincible when piloted by a main/support character.
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Old 2004-11-09, 23:01   Link #18
Derelict
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Originally Posted by HoBoZ
uh....yea it would.

two characters, Close childhood friends? due to "conflict" between the peoples, they were forced into combat against one another ending with the death of both of them?

i said "watching this anime" only SEED, nothing beyond, nothing before.
How would that make the war pointless, though? People would still be fighting, still killing each other and who knows, maybe new heroes would have emerged.

War is pointless? Why has non-fictional/fictional society built upon those 'pointless' things that mark their existence? Kira/Athrun killing each other would be horrible, no doubt.. But that wouldn't prove to the viewer that it would be pointless, especially since that wasn't what the plot was building up to in the first place.

Kira fighting against his own people and his best friend was to prove how painful war is and how important it is to protect those that you love and even while participating in the most wretched of events that you never waiver in stopping injustice.

Maybe you should watch the first half over again and pay attention to what the main character faces and what his decisions are.
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Old 2004-11-09, 23:17   Link #19
HoBoZ
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Im saying its pointless in the way that its always back and forth, back and forth with little effect on the ending except in the destruction.

YES, " People would still be fighting, still killing each other and who knows, maybe new heroes would have emerged." thats my POINT. it will be CONTINOUS. this EMPHASIZES the POINTLESS part of it. With the destruction that will accompany these "fights", it makes war "stupid". 'I kill you because u killed my brother.' Its a fricken NEVER ENDING CHAIN.
kira fights because he has to fight. he is placed into a position where there is no choice. either he fight, or he die along w/ his "friends".

what is kira fighting for? -to protect friends on ship
what are the coordinators fighting for? -to protect their families
what are the naturals fighting for? - to protect their families
ONLY a FEW extremists fight to KILL the other with NOTHING to protect.
EVEN Kira's father fights to protect "coordinators" place in the world.

ALMOST EVERY1 IS FIGHTING to PROTECT SOME1.

obviously, i realize the "plot" continues in destiny. thus i made this, only for seed.
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Old 2004-11-09, 23:32   Link #20
Derelict
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Originally Posted by HoBoZ
Im saying its pointless in the way that its always back and forth, back and forth with little effect on the ending except in the destruction.

YES, " People would still be fighting, still killing each other and who knows, maybe new heroes would have emerged." thats my POINT. it will be CONTINOUS. this EMPHASIZES the POINTLESS part of it. With the destruction that will accompany these "fights", it makes war "stupid". 'I kill you because u killed my brother.' Its a fricken NEVER ENDING CHAIN.
kira fights because he has to fight. he is placed into a position where there is no choice. either he fight, or he die along w/ his "friends".

what is kira fighting for? -to protect friends on ship
what are the coordinators fighting for? -to protect their families
what are the naturals fighting for? - to protect their families
ONLY a FEW extremists fight to KILL the other with NOTHING to protect.
EVEN Kira's father fights to protect "coordinators" place in the world.

ALMOST EVERY1 IS FIGHTING to PROTECT SOME1.

obviously, i realize the "plot" continues in destiny. thus i made this, only for seed.
But the plot intended to show that a war can be ended without an as you put it 'pointless' massacre. In the second half it showed just how you can avoid killing a fair amount of your enemies and also bring the war to a close. The plot showed that people can think for themselves, they can stop the perpetuating cycle of bloodshed, did you not see the important scene at the end with the ZAFT officers refusing Zala's orders to fire on earth, to 'protect their families'? Pointless? Hardly. Kira/Athrun dying would teach ANYONE that war is pointless? No, because they were both fighting for peace and the war would eventually end for that reason, whether they lived or died.
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