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Old 2004-11-20, 19:47   Link #61
UserName
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I'm saying if it is in fact a mistranslation then why twice? And I'm sure there are different groups translating it.
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Old 2004-11-20, 20:22   Link #62
raijin
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Originally Posted by UserName
I'm saying if it is in fact a mistranslation then why twice? And I'm sure there are different groups translating it.
I have no clue, you might want to ask the people who actually translated it. It's highly possible that 2 different people made the same mistake.

至上命令 (shijoumeirei) is clearly shown in the original Japanese manga. I've also checked translations from other sources such as AK of Troy (Toriyama's World) and Crustol (ANBU|AonE) and there have been no mention of "Upper Echelons".

Also, Inane has released a "corrected" version using tankoubon scans of chapter 147, which also does not include "Upper Echelons".
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Old 2004-11-20, 21:36   Link #63
Hunter
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The reason why it happened twice is probably because the mistranslation comes from the oldest english translation, if the guy from Inane who translated the chapter 231 had this old mistake in mind then it's easier to make the same mistake.

Anyway there is simply no doubt that it's a mistranslation when you pay attention and like Raijin and I said, Inane released a new and this time correct version of the chapter where Itachi said that.
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Old 2004-11-21, 17:04   Link #64
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the guy in the back #4, is Itachi.
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Old 2004-11-21, 20:02   Link #65
Dokuganryu
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I'm not sure weather there was always 9 people or it became 9 after Oro left. But from what we have seen of Oro, he prefers to have the leadership role, so either there was always a leader type in the group or Oro pushed for more prominent place within the group and a leader emerged from that. Either way, it gives me reason to think there is a member of Akatsuki who is a leader or someone who holds more clout and/or power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiko
Ok I thought i'd number the Akatsuki group photo for ease of reference:

Spoiler:


From the picture I gather:

1 = Kisame
3 or 4 = Itachi (most likely 3)
8 = Weird eyes bloke
9 = Fly Trap Dude (maybe?)

Now it's interesting that it's # 8 that people have been guessing could be the leader, but if you look at the (possible) focus of the people, it kinda looks like they're all looking towards members #4 or #6 (most likely #4 - who could possibly be Itachi).
1 = Kisame
2 = The big guy...generally in anime, the guy is never the most powerful member or the one with most clout, so I'm saying he's stupidly strong physically but not the leader
3 = I'm also saying like Kisame and the big guy, not in the same league as Itachi, 6 or 7.
4 = looks to be Itachi.
5 = I'm pretty sure from the way 5 is drawn it's a woman. I'm not sure on her power levels, but usually in a Shonen series a woman is never the leader of the bad guys.
4, 6 or 7 = I'm going with either 4, 6 or 7 being either the leader or the strongest member(s) judging from the composition of the frame. I'm thinking 6; he is the most central in the image, appears to be the furthest away from us and is facing away from the rest of the group.
8 = Weird Eyes, and I'm not sure how strong he'll be, from the frame composition, I guess he won't be a leader.
9 = Fly Trap Dude, again I'm going on frame composition to say he is not the leader. In regards to Fly Trap being two people, I don't like it...lol... correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading somewhere that some people, mainly of warrior class in feudal Japan would talk in similar fashion, similar to Kenshin. I also remember reading a draft version of Naruto or was it a concept strip that when on to become Naruto (I've got a jpeg of it somewhere, I can't find it, maybe it's on my other comp), but Kakashi talks in the same way as Kenshin. So it is a possibility that he is 2 people, but I'd rather not think so.

In chapter 239, they go to fight Stone ninja's...we haven't really herd of the hidden village of Stone at all during the series, so maybe this chapter is also dropping a hint at some of the roots or links that Akatsuki has relates back to this. I also like the idea that Akatsuki existed to an extent or at least some current members were looking for the same things they are looking for now when the Kyuubi attacked Konoha.

Also I posted this in the Uchiha Timeline thread, but its still relevant here:
I'm interested in knowing Oro's leaving Konoha in relation to the destruction Uchiha Clan and when Oro leaves Akatsuki. The main reason is then we can figure out weather he had or not finished developing body transfering tech, which would give us a pretty clear picture of why he left the organization and why he wanted to avoid confrontation with Itachi.
Also I have a feeling that the Oro/Itachi relationship is much more complicated that we are led to believe. Think about it, logically the only Konoha ninja with dark intentions that we know who was a member of Akatsuki that could have got Itachi involved with Akatsuki in the first place is Oro. We also know Oro wanted Itachi's body even back then (man, that sounds so homoerotic lol). So I'm thinking maybe he also told and/or pushed Itachi to get gain the Mangekyou, so when Oro acquired his body, it would be complete. But then Itachi becomes too hard for him to control. Kishimoto has shown his liking to draw parallels, and with the present Susuke/Oro relationship it would fit.
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Old 2004-11-22, 17:07   Link #66
hiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dokuganryu
I'm not sure weather there was always 9 people or it became 9 after Oro left. But from what we have seen of Oro, he prefers to have the leadership role, so either there was always a leader type in the group or Oro pushed for more prominent place within the group and a leader emerged from that. Either way, it gives me reason to think there is a member of Akatsuki who is a leader or someone who holds more clout and/or power.
I think ShurikenJay or someone else mentioned that each member of Akatsuki could have a specific talent to bring to the group, with no two people being too similar in "ninja type". Maybe before Itachi joined Oro was the overall Jutsu specialist of the group, but with his Sharingan Itachi changed all that so Maru felt his position threatened. Most likely it's prolly just down to the fact Oro likes little boys with Sharingan a little too much and don't like it when they kick his ass

In that akatsuki pic, #6 could well be facing us, it would certainly make more sense given the rest of the group seem to be focussing in roughly the same direction. If he/she does have his back to us either he has his back to the other Akatsuki or looking towards Itachi - in which case he's small, even factoring in the fact he's most likely sitting down/crouching.

To me #6 looks like he's facing us and has some large scrolls on his back, suggesting he could be a summoning or sealing master. If one of the Akatsuki was responsible for the Kyuubi incident 12yrs ago it could well turn out to be him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dokuganryu
correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading somewhere that some people, mainly of warrior class in feudal Japan would talk in similar fashion, similar to Kenshin. I also remember reading a draft version of Naruto or was it a concept strip that when on to become Naruto (I've got a jpeg of it somewhere, I can't find it, maybe it's on my other comp), but Kakashi talks in the same way as Kenshin.
Kenshin's mannerisms are based on real antiquated forms of speech, like the verb gozaru and noun sessha. The Manga character notes in one of the earlier chapters has the info on how Kishimoto first realised Kakashi, that he was going to have an antiquated polite way of talking just like Kenshin does but he decided against this in the end.

Speaking of Kenshin, what we know about the Akatsuki kinda remind be of the juppon gatana. We have a teenage prodigy (itachi), cocky sadistic lunatic (Kisame), huge guy, bat-person (interesting that you think this could be a woman, would be a nice surprise). Course, Kenshin wasn't the only Manga to bring together a group of bad guys with a shared common goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dokuganryu
In chapter 239, they go to fight Stone ninja's...we haven't really herd of the hidden village of Stone at all during the series, so maybe this chapter is also dropping a hint at some of the roots or links that Akatsuki has relates back to this. I also like the idea that Akatsuki existed to an extent or at least some current members were looking for the same things they are looking for now when the Kyuubi attacked Konoha.
I wondered the same thing in the ch239 thread, will certainly be interesting to see how it all plays out, especially as we see that at least one stone Nin has that weird front-ponytail style haircut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dokuganryu
Also I posted this in the Uchiha Timeline thread, but its still relevant here:
I'm interested in knowing Oro's leaving Konoha in relation to the destruction Uchiha Clan and when Oro leaves Akatsuki. The main reason is then we can figure out weather he had or not finished developing body transfering tech, which would give us a pretty clear picture of why he left the organization and why he wanted to avoid confrontation with Itachi.
Also I have a feeling that the Oro/Itachi relationship is much more complicated that we are led to believe. Think about it, logically the only Konoha ninja with dark intentions that we know who was a member of Akatsuki that could have got Itachi involved with Akatsuki in the first place is Oro. We also know Oro wanted Itachi's body even back then (man, that sounds so homoerotic lol). So I'm thinking maybe he also told and/or pushed Itachi to get gain the Mangekyou, so when Oro acquired his body, it would be complete. But then Itachi becomes too hard for him to control. Kishimoto has shown his liking to draw parallels, and with the present Susuke/Oro relationship it would fit.
We know Oro left Konoha around the time the 4th became Hokage. What we don't know is when exactly this happened, the Gaiden looks to be set about 13-14yrs ago, and Yondaime might already be hokage but i'm sure if he isn't he soon will be. So I reckon Oro left Konoha about 13yrs ago.

From Sasuke's flashbacks we know Itachi activated (or mastered) his Sharingan aged 8, became Chuunin aged 10 and at least 6months later joined ANBU (so could've just turned 11) at least 6months after that (but not much longer than half a year) he killed Shisui and gained Mangekyou Sharingan, aged 11. He killed his clan and left Konoha 5-6yrs ago at age 13, or possibly 14, (Sasuke was 7).

Oro left Akatsuki 7yrs ago - which corresponds to the time Itachi obtained Mangekyou. What's interesting is that when Itachi joined ANBU (pre-mange by 6months) Sasuke remembers hearing who he presumed to be his father complement him on making it into ANBU, but this scene is played out in a sinister manner, suggesting either Sasuke's father was up to no good or it wasn't his father saying this at all, could this have been Oro or another AKatsuki member we've yet to see? Persnoally I think it could well be Oro.

It's also interesting that it looks like Itachi took roughly 3yrs to develop his Sharingan to the Mangekyou state - how long's that time jump again?

Last edited by hiko; 2004-11-22 at 17:33.
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Old 2004-11-22, 17:28   Link #67
Satoru
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I think Number 8 [Kurenai's father] is the leader.
He was the one who mentioned the kyuubi.
Number 6 is just a freak...

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-11-22, 17:52   Link #68
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I know that predicting is a great habit of this forum and lord knows I did it a lot of times but I seriosuly cannot see how you can deduct all those descriptions from just some silhouettes Dokuganryu.

You can't base it on anything and I really mean on nothing.

Sadly, this is just my opinion and ofcourse your free to think what you want.
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Old 2004-11-23, 04:24   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiko
Ok I thought i'd number the Akatsuki group photo for ease of reference:

Spoiler:


From the picture I gather:

1 = Kisame
3 or 4 = Itachi (most likely 3)
8 = Weird eyes bloke
9 = Fly Trap Dude (maybe?)

Now it's interesting that it's # 8 that people have been guessing could be the leader, but if you look at the (possible) focus of the people, it kinda looks like they're all looking towards members #4 or #6 (most likely #4 - who could possibly be Itachi).

4= Itachi
8= doesnt equal weird eyes bloke
6= if there is a leader its probably him.

If you know anything about asian culture , posture is everything. It is true everywhere but more so in asia. In ch 238 , the guy was sitting down and spoke first .If there is a leader its probably him.He is the same kid who was standing in the middle when jiraria first introduced Akatsuki to Kakashi in ep 82. You will also notice Itachi is always next to him, like his right hand man.

Last edited by Faktor-IV; 2004-11-23 at 05:35.
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Old 2004-11-23, 07:24   Link #70
Dokuganryu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animizzle
I know that predicting is a great habit of this forum and lord knows I did it a lot of times but I seriosuly cannot see how you can deduct all those descriptions from just some silhouettes Dokuganryu.

You can't base it on anything and I really mean on nothing.

Sadly, this is just my opinion and ofcourse your free to think what you want.

You know Animizzle, sadly alot (and I mean alot) of what is said in this thread (and this board for that matter) is just opinion. Thatís the point of these threads, so you can share your opinions and bounce ideas of other people while you wait for the truth to be revealed. I based my theories/descriptions of the silhouettes from what we've seen in the manga thus far and what I've been in various other shounen series. I didn't at one point make any of my opinions to be the "gospel truth".

I don't know exactly what you were trying to tell me by writing my SN in bold or the word "nothing", but basically to me you just came off as having a bitch at me not conforming to your ideas and/or your idea on how the various yet unsolved intricacies of the series should be deduced. And if thats the case why bother posting at all? You could just sit and bide your time till everythings made crystal clear, meanwhile I am quite happy to throw my thoughts on what I think may or may not happen, weather they are founded or unfounded in your opinion.
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Old 2004-11-23, 07:38   Link #71
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based on the piccie with all the akatsuki members
i think nr6 is the leader, cause all the other members are facing his way and are even looking kinda down to the floor asif he's sitting on the floor or is just really small
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Old 2004-11-23, 08:10   Link #72
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Akatsuki better have some females or else I will not be happy.

#1 Kisame, male
#2 Big guy, definately male
#3 Can't tell wheter male or female
#4 Itachi, male
#5 Bat, my guess is female
#6 I guess this is a female as well
#7 Looks like a male but I am not sure
#8 Can't tell wheter male or female
#9 Flytrap, male
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Old 2004-11-23, 08:18   Link #73
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Yeah Number 6 could be the leader.
Number 3: male, from the Stone Village.

Last edited by Satoru; 2004-11-23 at 15:02.
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Old 2004-11-23, 21:29   Link #74
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I just was checking through the manga because I remember a shot of Akatsuki lined up in the anime. I don't remeber which episode it was but it was around 82 or so. Can someone confirm this because I remeber seeing Itachi standing in the center, the shortest one. I am assuming that if theyadded a scene like that then Kishimoto, already has the profiles of the group in his notes. Maybe this scene could be used to cross reference.

As to the organization of Akatsuki they feel like a seniority and respect based organization. They remind me of the Genei Ryodan in the way that they are always polite and suggesting theings. Itachi was definitely in charge but he wasn't throwing it in anyones face.

Plus does anyone know whether the description of Itachi as 'merciful' in the fact book is an accurate translation. As opposed to say, merciless.
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Old 2004-11-23, 21:43   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Shrimpusmaximus
I just was checking through the manga because I remember a shot of Akatsuki lined up in the anime. I don't remeber which episode it was but it was around 82 or so. Can someone confirm this because I remeber seeing Itachi standing in the center, the shortest one. I am assuming that if theyadded a scene like that then Kishimoto, already has the profiles of the group in his notes. Maybe this scene could be used to cross reference.

As to the organization of Akatsuki they feel like a seniority and respect based organization. They remind me of the Genei Ryodan in the way that they are always polite and suggesting theings. Itachi was definitely in charge but he wasn't throwing it in anyones face.

Plus does anyone know whether the description of Itachi as 'merciful' in the fact book is an accurate translation. As opposed to say, merciless.
Please don't tell me that you think that the image of Akatsuki is the same as the one in the manga. The earlier picture of Akatsuki in the anime was simply a spoiler. This includes the fact that one of the members has his surrounded by a giant flytrap along with another member who doesn't seem to stand up on two limbs basically. The fact is that the current manga picture of Akatsuki puts a foot up the ass of that stupid spoiler.
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Old 2004-11-23, 21:52   Link #76
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Well I don't think that they would do something like that, When I come up with the plot of a story I map out the characters and I map out the villians. Alot of fun can be had creating villians and I have the feel that Kishimoto has known what direction he is going to go in since a while back. I wasn't planning on using this as a be all end all its just another piece of information, and I wanted to see if it lined up with the information that we have.

Gathering remote references is a good way to piece together data and I just want to evaluate the possibility that this data is valid. If it isn't then we discard it, if it matches the data we have then we can adjust the model. I think it is wise given that we have 3 confirmed akatsuki, plus two with discerning characteristics who are not one of the three and one very vaguw shot.

Plus it is obvious that the Manga and the anime talk to one another. Thus there is most likely a fact checker with all the info.
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Old 2004-11-23, 21:59   Link #77
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Forgive the double post but I have just downloaded the episode, 82. During Jiraya speech we get a flash of the boys in black. ON the far leftin the anime shot, the largest siloutte has the same hair style as the large shadow near kisame so I think that it is safe to assume that this data is accurate, though I would say that the shadow seems larger by a good margin in the manga, and it is debatable that that hairstyle belongs to the guy with the spikey hair who is between the spech bubblles
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Old 2004-11-23, 22:21   Link #78
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Originally Posted by ShurikenJay
He's saying it means "important order". Itachi has seniority as well as strength over Kisame even though he is younger. I'm sure there is a greater ninja than Itachi in Akatsuki running the show especially since they have an odd number of characters. A stronger authority over Itachi does not go against his personality as he felt the Uchiha clan was "holding him back". Being around strong ambitious people like himself would fit his ideals perfectly.
I agree I see it in the same way...

If you remember Itachi killed everyone of his family members (except his brother Sasuke) and for someone like that to listen to someones orders who is more stronger than him must mean that guy must be able to withstand psychological attacks (from the sharingan) and be one tough mofo to be the dominant part of an organisation. If you remember when Itachi was vs. kakashi, there were mission priorities and he told Kisame to not to fight and to avoid unnecessary damage which means he is taking objectives from a stronger power and keeping Kisame in check too showing his superiority.

Itachi himself proved his power and superiority over Kisame when he and Kisame were running for their lives to exit Jiriyas stomach, Itachi used a sacred jitsu Ameratsu (which means Sun God something or another lol) which was so powerful it took Jiriya to write a fire sealing scripture on a scroll to contain the black flames. Anyways after that Kisame said that Itachi should of finished them off but Itachi again stamped his authority to tell him that it's not a good idea.
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Old 2004-11-23, 23:57   Link #79
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Originally Posted by AkatsukisApprentice
I agree I see it in the same way...

If you remember Itachi killed everyone of his family members (except his brother Sasuke) and for someone like that to listen to someones orders who is more stronger than him must mean that guy must be able to withstand psychological attacks (from the sharingan) and be one tough mofo to be the dominant part of an organisation. If you remember when Itachi was vs. kakashi, there were mission priorities and he told Kisame to not to fight and to avoid unnecessary damage which means he is taking objectives from a stronger power and keeping Kisame in check too showing his superiority.

Itachi himself proved his power and superiority over Kisame when he and Kisame were running for their lives to exit Jiriyas stomach, Itachi used a sacred jitsu Ameratsu (which means Sun God something or another lol) which was so powerful it took Jiriya to write a fire sealing scripture on a scroll to contain the black flames. Anyways after that Kisame said that Itachi should of finished them off but Itachi again stamped his authority to tell him that it's not a good idea.
I would find it uber funny if it turns out that Kisame is actually stronger than Itachi, with him being of the generation of the Hidden Mist that survived a certain deadly ninja academy exam, the fact he wasn't given the chance to reveal much of his knowledge of jutsu in the storyline, etc. It definently would be more surprising and an interesting twist not many who view strength with quick superficial judgments. Just an idea is all.
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Old 2004-11-24, 05:33   Link #80
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Originally Posted by neodrag38
I would find it uber funny if it turns out that Kisame is actually stronger than Itachi, with him being of the generation of the Hidden Mist that survived a certain deadly ninja academy exam, the fact he wasn't given the chance to reveal much of his knowledge of jutsu in the storyline, etc. It definently would be more surprising and an interesting twist not many who view strength with quick superficial judgments. Just an idea is all.
If Kisami is stronger than Itachi....I would stop watching naruto....but then again so far we have seen Itachi take the lead showing his domination so far in the pair...In life threatening situations, like when Kisami was getting worried and looked to Itachi to bail them out with a ancient sun god jutsu...which shows a high level of depth in his techniques/jitsus compared to Kisame.
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