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Old 2009-06-16, 00:29   Link #1081
koohyuko
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Hah, I liked the Nine Inch Nails reference/attack. Too bad they're ending their touring now....
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Old 2009-06-16, 01:16   Link #1082
shmaster
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...For some reason I have this feeling that Soul is going ot get the power to fight on his own, and then Maka well probably get kidannaped or ran into some mistress in distress situtation to serve as a excuse to let Soul run a solo so he can show off his new power.

And I hope this don't happen.
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Old 2009-06-16, 01:52   Link #1083
Nayrael
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Did anyone else notice that the clowns in chapter 60 and 61 are different?

Spoiler:


It seems that the first Clown parted ways with Justin before he was attacked by Stein and Marie. So, are more then one Clown allied with Noah, is Noah their leader or do they serve Kishin and are minions he sent to help Noah (probably not knowing that Noah wants to capture him)?
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Old 2009-06-16, 15:56   Link #1084
lmd_84
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Remember that the Clown is the manifestation of (Asura's) insanity. From what I recall of the Clown chapters, they're (if it is indeed a 'they') not so much Asura's minions as they are a part of him. It might not be that there is more than one, but that it changes its appearance over time, as 61 suggested it had. Having insanity manifest alongside insane characters seems reasonable under the circumstances. A bizarre kind of 'reason', but still it would fit.
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Old 2009-06-17, 05:07   Link #1085
Nayrael
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The clown had a muscular look few moments before Justin was attacked by Marie and Stein. It goes without question that there are more of them.

And where was it said that they change appearance?
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Old 2009-06-17, 14:33   Link #1086
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It wasn't said, but I think it looked different in chapter 61 from what it did when Maka encountered it?
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Old 2009-06-17, 19:34   Link #1087
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@Anh: Yes, he can fight with his arm transformed into the blade part of his scythe form, but that can only get him so far in a fight.

@Red: I'm sure Ookubo would figure out some way to make it done, lol.
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Old 2009-06-17, 22:27   Link #1088
Tamad
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Just wanted to throw in my two cents on the Soul Death Scythe theory. I agree when most people say that Maka will get into a sticky situation in which she's separated from Soul in the near future, and Soul will go on to learn how to fight by himself. I don't think he'll be able to do it because he became a Death Scythe however, as we don't even know what changes happen from a normal Weapon to a Death Scythe. I think a Weapon being able to fight without the aid of a Technician is more or less based off of the kind of person and/or weapon they are in the first place. Yes, Justin and Giriko are able to fend for themselves... but we haven't exactly seen Azusa fend for herself (to be fair she hasn't been doing much of anything that we've seen but eh), and it doesn't look like Spirit can fight without a partner either. On the flip side, we've recently seen that a normal Weapon like Patty is able to hold her own in solo combat, and marie seems to be able to hold her own to some extent too. So I'm sure it's more or less the actual Weapons themselves, not their status... though I have to say I'm thankful to Soul, for now we can see what changes are there exactly when a Weapon turns into a Death Scythe.

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Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post
Remember that the Clown is the manifestation of (Asura's) insanity. From what I recall of the Clown chapters, they're (if it is indeed a 'they') not so much Asura's minions as they are a part of him. It might not be that there is more than one, but that it changes its appearance over time, as 61 suggested it had. Having insanity manifest alongside insane characters seems reasonable under the circumstances. A bizarre kind of 'reason', but still it would fit.
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It wasn't said, but I think it looked different in chapter 61 from what it did when Maka encountered it?
The Clown is an interesting topic of discussion, but it's really hard to determine whether or not there are multiple Clowns or just one Clown. I believe that there are definitely more than one Clown, as they all seem to be born in areas with a large amount of insanity. The Clown Maka fought got defeated, but it said it will always be by her side, so the most logical conclusion seems to be there are multiple Clown bodies, but they all speak as one figure of insanity, or possibly insanity itself. Could this mean that Clown with Justin and the Clown that fought Maka are the same and not the same Clown at the same time? Thing is, what does the Clown do after it infects someone? I'd figure it would move around infecting as many people as it can, but the Clown that infected Justin didn't seem to have any trouble following Justin around. Do they stick around to where large amounts of insanity can be found, or they stick with their host or what. Lastly, the Clown that was hanging around with Noah was definitely interesting. Can Noah be considered infected with insanity? He seems to enjoy the flow of insanity at the very least, so maybe Clowns are attracted to him too? I need more info on Clowns before any of this actually makes sense, otherwise this is just random babbling.
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Old 2009-06-17, 23:07   Link #1089
Kirvee
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The idea of Noah attracting Clowns is funny for some reason.

Although, I like the idea of them appearing near people or areas that have been turned over to insanity. But I wonder if the Clown near Noah in 62 is solely for him or if it's for his whole possy.
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Old 2009-06-17, 23:08   Link #1090
ellifeedn
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Insanity is not constant, things are always changing. The clown reflects that.
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Old 2009-06-18, 08:36   Link #1091
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Quote:
Insanity is not constant, things are always changing. The clown reflects that.
Where was that hinted in Soul Eater manga?
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Old 2009-06-18, 11:03   Link #1092
lmd_84
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Behaviour, for one thing. Look at insane characters like Crona and Stein, they're not consistent in their actions, often switching from relative calm to violence very quickly. We saw the same from Maka when she first properly used the black blood - despite the almost comic portrayal, she was still being horribly brutal. Medusa, who calls herself insane (or at least compares her mindset to Stein's), is rather more functional, presumably because she knows how to use it to her advantage in a way other than simple violence (she also almost always has a plan).

It was also said when Asura was resurrected that the effect of his insanity wavelength would change over time; affecting more people and creatures in the world (it wouldn't provoke violence in normal golems 'til later on, for example) as time went on. The inconsistency of madness in the Soul Eater world has been shown, and anticipated by the characters for quite some time.
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Old 2009-06-18, 13:48   Link #1093
Nayrael
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Even normal person change over and over again:
Black Star, who was just an tehnician that could yell, changed into one of Shibusen's finest tehnician.
Children change when they grow up, both physicaly and mentaly.

Nothing is constant even in order. Thus, change is NOT the element aligned with insanity, but an element that is aligned with insanity, order and everything else.

As for Chrona and Stein example: they don't change, but they often hide their true selves. Those who are not fully insane don't even allow those dark parts of their souls to ever take the upper hand in their life. The more insane you become, the less you hide that you are insane thus such changes in personality happen less often, usually when you are interested in talking.

If Asura were succesful and the world had been thrown into State of Insanity, then change would mean return back to the State of Order. Thus, change would not be welcome by insanity.

Quote:
It was also said when Asura was resurrected that the effect of his insanity wavelength would change over time; affecting more people and creatures in the world (it wouldn't provoke violence in normal golems 'til later on, for example) as time went on. The inconsistency of madness in the Soul Eater world has been shown, and anticipated by the characters for quite some time.
The power of insanity grows over time as Asura reovers his powers and maybe improves them. They fear the growth of his power, not the change itself. Weakening of his powers could also result in change and that ceartanly woudn't worry the characters (at least not the good ones).

In conclusion, Clown being aligned with change just because he represents insanity is not really a strong theory. The change is one of results, but not the source or core element of the Insanity or even its most important part.


The theory that seems to make most sense is "There are more then one clown" theory because if Asura was able to create one Clown, he would be able to create at least few more. Not to mention that that would be profitable because insanity could spread faster.
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Old 2009-06-19, 04:31   Link #1094
lmd_84
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Unless we're misunderstanding what the Clown actually is. We know it takes an active part in driving others mad - like Maka, and presumably Justin too. But that's not so say that they're (I'll go with the plural for now; I don't agree, but it seems to be a possibility) under the control of Asura or were created by him.

The fact the Clown's the 'manifestation of insanity' could simply mean that they came about due to Asura's resurrection and the heightened level of madness in the world that followed it, not because they were consciously created by the Kishin. (That's lot of 'k's)

And when it comes to change and inconsistency, if that's not an important part of insanity, then what is? Shibusen functions on its little mantra of a "healthy soul residing in a healthy mind and a healthy body", suggesting that anything other than this indicates madness/potential kishin. Shibusen promotes order (at least, as Shinigami sees it) over the chaos as represented by the Kishin (amongst other things). While I agree that change is perhaps not what's most important about the Clown, I think that the notion of order vs. chaos is absolutely an important part of the series, and a defining characteristic.
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Old 2009-06-19, 10:38   Link #1095
animekritik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post

I think that the notion of order vs. chaos is absolutely an important part of the series, and a defining characteristic.

I couldn't agree with you more, except to add (as i say over and over) that when you look at the inner workings of Shibusen, there is so much underlying chaos in there that it's almost as if Ohkubo is subverting his own opposition (order vs chaos). This is what makes this series fun.
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Old 2009-06-19, 17:26   Link #1096
lmd_84
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True, and I did recall that when writing the post, but in that case I was trying to get across the opposition between the two, and not the underlying aspects.
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Old 2009-06-20, 00:42   Link #1097
Tempura
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Is it just me or did soul's scythe form looked a little different on that color'd page?
notice that gold trim on the handle and the back of the blade
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Old 2009-06-20, 04:47   Link #1098
lmd_84
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It did, definitely. And I'd say the ending of the chapter tells us why...

Spoiler for Ch.62 Spoilers:
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Old 2009-06-21, 02:27   Link #1099
Sno-Oki
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Maybe my fangirl dreams shall be realised and Kid goes insane!
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Old 2009-06-21, 02:58   Link #1100
Tamad
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Perhaps the Kid being related in some way to the Kishin isn't too far off from the truth after all. I never actually noticed the Kishin eyes on Liz and Patti...
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