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Old 2004-11-17, 15:47   Link #81
Bun-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitaro
OMG! Unbelievable. I can't believe what I'm reading. I'm so tired of repeating myself its ridiculous. So I'm going to stop replying until someone has something new to say.
lol you haven't even remark bout the fact that there is no WMD, and that Iraq wasn't really a threat. So you tell me what the point in goin over there? the one answer I've come up with is oil. Hmmm what leads me to believe that, well maybe because the 2 leaders of the Administration have ties to big oil company, hell who did they put in charge after the invasion, an oil exec. So you tell me if it wasn't for oil then what was it for. And we invaded a country for oil, bomb innocent civilians, and did you see the shooting of an unarmed man? Okay so we're not straping bombs on ourselves, but we are doin inhumane things that I'm not proud of. The Arab nation, whom we are trying to make peace with, sees this as more of a reason to fight America. We are giving more to the cause then disminishing it. I presume you are Christian, I could be wrong, but most who support G Dubb is. Now in your christian faith did not Jesus preach peace and forgivness. Who would Jesus bomb? What kind of Gun would Jesus carry? And who would Jesus put to Death? Seems pretty hypocritical when your religion preaches peace and compassion you go ahead and pre-emptive (Iraq didn't do anything to us) strike a sovoriegn (sp?) nation. War only brings more war, the peace that comes after war is an unstable peace, cause someone out there will have a reason for vengeance and begins more war.
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Old 2004-11-17, 16:21   Link #82
Edgewalker
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Does anyone else realize that if every leader/terrorist that leads their people using religion suddenly dropped down dead the world would be a hundred times better off ?

-that includes bush by the way .
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Old 2004-11-17, 16:22   Link #83
TheLaughingMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bun-kun
lol you haven't even remark bout the fact that there is no WMD, and that Iraq wasn't really a threat. So you tell me what the point in goin over there? the one answer I've come up with is oil. Hmmm what leads me to believe that, well maybe because the 2 leaders of the Administration have ties to big oil company, hell who did they put in charge after the invasion, an oil exec. So you tell me if it wasn't for oil then what was it for. And we invaded a country for oil, bomb innocent civilians, and did you see the shooting of an unarmed man? Okay so we're not straping bombs on ourselves, but we are doin inhumane things that I'm not proud of. The Arab nation, whom we are trying to make peace with, sees this as more of a reason to fight America. We are giving more to the cause then disminishing it. I presume you are Christian, I could be wrong, but most who support G Dubb is. Now in your christian faith did not Jesus preach peace and forgivness. Who would Jesus bomb? What kind of Gun would Jesus carry? And who would Jesus put to Death? Seems pretty hypocritical when your religion preaches peace and compassion you go ahead and pre-emptive (Iraq didn't do anything to us) strike a sovoriegn (sp?) nation. War only brings more war, the peace that comes after war is an unstable peace, cause someone out there will have a reason for vengeance and begins more war.
While I do not agree that the invasion and occupation of Iraq was a good (or sound) idea, as I remarked in my previous post, it seems almost asinine (no personal offense meant) to suggest the whole invasion was for the purpose of a few oil companies gaining contracts. What makes more sense is that this US oil corporation... fiasco resulted from the invasion and occupation of Iraq, but was not the cause of the invasion. Lets not also forget about the international Oil for Food scandel, and all the countries and corporations making money off of pre invaded Iraq.

It is a huge (and wrong) assumption to say all pro Bush people are Christians. I don't even see how mentioning Judeo-Christianity is even relevant to the discussion at hand. Ah well, just for the sake of it, I should point out that Jesus himself said in Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
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Old 2004-11-17, 16:30   Link #84
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgewalker
Does anyone else realize that if every leader/terrorist that leads their people using religion suddenly dropped down dead the world would be a hundred times better off ?

-that includes bush by the way .
I partly agree. Better yet If all religion was suddenly outcast the world would be a much better place to live. It's time to move past the silliness of religion.
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Old 2004-11-17, 16:40   Link #85
Edgewalker
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that would make it a thousand times better , but I doubt many would be willing to just give up their religious beliefs . Religions such as Islam , christianity , Zeus , JW ect. that believe everyone who doesnt think what they think is going to hell are the kinds of religions that are very hard to strip people from - It can take years to get even the basic problems with religion across to someone who believes in one of those .
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Old 2004-11-17, 17:10   Link #86
aahhsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgewalker
Does anyone else realize that if every leader/terrorist that leads their people using religion suddenly dropped down dead the world would be a hundred times better off ?

-that includes bush by the way . .
You would think that wouldn't you? But let's take 2 of the most atrocious people in modern history.

Hitler, and Stalin. Both *gasp! are Atheist!

Of course, you're going to counter with all of this Jihad and Crusade ideas, but that's just flawed. If that were true, then why are the Muslims attacking each other? It's not because of religious beliefs (Although you can argue for the Shites and Sunnis), but because of the scarcity of water and land.

Why did the French treat their Indo-China Colonies so bad? Not because the Natives did not want to learn about Christianity, nor did God Compel the French to believe they're the masters there. They did it to help France.

Even if all Religion were to be wiped out of the world, this world will be in the same situation. Stop blaming God, Yahweh, Allah, Zeus, Thor, the stars, or even Satan/Ifrit/Diablo for all of the World's problems.

Take a look at yourself, you don't even like Religion, and guess what? You just insulted a bunch of people that do believe in their Religion. Oh No! You just started another conflict.

The reasons Political Leaders do that is to get reelected. Hell if I was elected President and I personally believe in the dead religion of Deism, but that's not the point. I would still have to thank God and the people.

The world will only be a better place if you're willing to tolerate other people's beliefs.
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Old 2004-11-17, 17:46   Link #87
Edgewalker
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the point ?
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Old 2004-11-17, 18:05   Link #88
aahhsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgewalker
Thanks you just proved my point of why I think you basing your arguement of "Getting rid of Religion is good for the world" isn't a good idea. Now I agree, my point of using Hitler is a idiotic idea, but I don't think you should base your reasoning that Religion is the driving force of wars.

Last edited by aahhsin; 2004-11-17 at 18:13. Reason: incomplete sentences.
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Old 2004-11-17, 18:17   Link #89
???
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World would be a better place without Politiciens, Leaders, Kings, God. Religion is part of that. I mean, who needs a leader ? Animals dont have leaders. Like in the law of nature, Only the strongest survive, the weak one dies.
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Old 2004-11-17, 18:20   Link #90
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin

Take a look at yourself, you don't even like Religion, and guess what? You just insulted a bunch of people that do believe in their Religion. Oh No! You just started another conflict.

The world will only be a better place if you're willing to tolerate other people's beliefs.
If I insulted anyone with my opinions then I apologize. This is a open forum and we have a right to express our opinions.

True. But today's world is not like that. That's not how the world works as you can see. Eventually the human race will move pass religion and we will open our eyes and see how stupid we were back then. Untill that day comes people will continue killing each other over their beliefs.
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Old 2004-11-17, 18:41   Link #91
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitaro
Oil, oil, oil, oil why does everyone think OIL is the only thing we invaded Iraq for. Do you actually think our president would risk the lives of American citizens just for oil?
I agree with that. Oil is not the reason we invaded Iraq, it's just a bonus. The real reason Bush invaded Iraq is much simpler, revenge. Saddam tried to assassinate Bush sr. as revenge for the humiliation he suffered in the first gulf war. When we learned of the plot, Clinton ordered bombing of iraqi command targets, but that wasn't enough for the current Bush. He decided before he was even elected that he would invade Iraq to get Saddam. Even before 9-11 he was drafting plans. The war on terror is just a convient excuse. bush lied to the american people and our soldiers just to get revenge against saddam for trying to kill his father. 1200 american soldiers and thousands of Iraqis are dead as a result of this lie. Why did Bush do it? That's also very simple, he doesn't understand the cost of war. If he did, he would never have risked US forces for something so trivial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
You would think that wouldn't you? But let's take 2 of the most atrocious people in modern history.

Hitler, and Stalin. Both *gasp! are Atheist!
You may be right about stalin, but Hitler was not an atheist in the sense you're using the word. He was a cultist who believed a lot of really strange stuff, but he wasn't an atheist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ???
World would be a better place without Politiciens, Leaders, Kings, God. Religion is part of that. I mean, who needs a leader ? Animals dont have leaders. Like in the law of nature, Only the strongest survive, the weak one dies.
Huh? Of course animals have leaders. Ants and Bees follow the queen. Wolves have a pack leader. Lions have a pride leader. Any social animal has a leadership structure, humans are not an exception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shouryuu
As for Osama....I've begun to question whether he is in fact still alive. If he is, it must be hard to drag dialysis equipment through the mountains. And it's unlikely for him to be doing this to get to heaven. You have to be a martyr...which means you have to be KIA'd...he's just sitting in a cave peeing in plastic baggies. My guess for why: $$$$$...or maybe he's sniffed glue a little too often.
Actually The report that Bin Laden needed dialysis was based on faulty intelligence. If a recent video is any indication, unfortunatly he's alive and well. Another Bush failure...
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Last edited by Kamui4356; 2004-11-17 at 18:56.
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Old 2004-11-17, 18:52   Link #92
Edgewalker
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my bash was more directed at the leaders who use it for the worst .
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Old 2004-11-17, 18:56   Link #93
Mcdonalds
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I'm pretty sure that there weren't any terrorists strapping bombs to themselves and blowing people up and beheading of people in iraq before the war. These incidents have happened only after the war. For the "we were taking out a barbaric dictator". What about all the other hundreds of dictators that are ruling the world.
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Old 2004-11-17, 19:00   Link #94
???
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Bees follow the queen cause its ther mother
Wolfs follow the father of his sons and that makes a troop, once the father dies, its the oldest brother who become leader.

You see, they all follow leaders because they are familly, Tell me, would you obey your parents ?
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Old 2004-11-17, 19:01   Link #95
tanuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitaro
Me too. Aren't we also part of the U.S.
Hawaii is a scary place that candidates for president don't like to talk too much about. If everyone in Hawaii voted for one candidate, and the other guy supposedly won the popular vote in that state by a narrow margin...the winner might be less concerned about a recount and more worried about being the honorary sacrifice to an active volcano on their next visit to the islands.

Save virgins, sacrifice politicians. Just tell the politicians they are going to a free BBQ in their honor when they get off the airplane.
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Old 2004-11-17, 19:02   Link #96
Access
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ???
World would be a better place without Politiciens, Leaders, Kings, God. Religion is part of that. I mean, who needs a leader ? Animals dont have leaders. Like in the law of nature, Only the strongest survive, the weak one dies.
Leaders and followers are part of nature also. Social / pack animals have an 'alpha'. In general, the strongest, most agressive male. There are different levels of survival -- the survival of the individual, the survival of the tribe, the survival of the species, etc.

On the individual level, the law of nature is not always 'survival of the fittest'. A weaker animal in a stronger pack may survive due to the strength of his pack and his pack's alpha. Likewise a stronger animal in an overall weaker pack may perish.

The same can be said for humans and the societies they live in. On a 'level playing field' (ie. put them both on a desert island) person A may be more apt to survive than person B. But person B may be from a rich family, he may live in a secure and technologically advanced country, while person A lives in an impoverished country and is an orphan surrounded by others like him. In this way, 'survival of the fittest' applies on many levels, not just the individual one.

From this standpoint, religion in the abstract is a tool, it is a 'weapon' that helps one tribe fight another. If one tribe believes in a divine power and the afterlife where their heroic deeds will be remembered, they have a great advantage over a tribe without such a belief. Likewise, monotheism (the concept of your god being greater than all others) is a similar 'weapon' or tool.

When you talk about things like leaders, kings, religions, politicians, etc., those are not removed from the law of the nature. They are part of the law of nature -- the social manifestations of 'survival of the fittest'.

And the obvious conclusion -- one who doesn't like these things -- should not embrace the law of nature.
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Old 2004-11-17, 19:11   Link #97
Shouryuu
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Quote:
True. But today's world is not like that. That's not how the world works as you can see. Eventually the human race will move pass religion and we will open our eyes and see how stupid we were back then. Untill that day comes people will continue killing each other over their beliefs.
That is just...ignorant. Guess what...if that day ever were to come, people would still kill each other. Religion isn't the cause of racism, stupidity, or greed. Those come naturally to us. So stop pretending religion is a cause of violence. If religion weren't here, people would find something else to blame it on. That being only half of your ignorance from that post.
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Old 2004-11-17, 19:20   Link #98
LoveOfAnime
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Wink

Here is something to think about.....READ THIS


Something else that has been bugging me, If I had nukes and was planning to use them would I really be dumb enough to announce this to the world at large on video tape .........I think not.
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Old 2004-11-17, 19:34   Link #99
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveOfAnime
Here is something to think about.....READ THIS


Something else that has been bugging me, If I had nukes and was planning to use them would I really be dumb enough to announce this to the world at large on video tape .........I think not.
Unfortunatly, that site is grasping at false intelligence. In that way, it's a left wing version of the Bush administration. As I said before, all evidence suggests that bin laden is alive and well now. In the picture that shows him ill, he probably was, but who knows what caused it. Rememeber, he running for his life then, so no matter what he had, he couldn't get proper treatment. Now he's probably safe somewhere, so he got treatment and is now healthy. That could also be why we haven't heard from him until recently, maybe he was in no shape to appear on camera.
As for the nuke announcement, maybe he thinks there's no way the US can stop his plans, or it could just be a bluff. As I said earily on in this thread, If a US city goes up in an atomic fireball at the hands of al qaeda, cities in Islamic countries will soon share that fate and Bin laden knows it.
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Old 2004-11-17, 19:37   Link #100
Shouryuu
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Quote:
As I said earily on in this thread, If a US city goes up in an atomic fireball at the hands of al qaeda, cities in Islamic countries will soon share that fate and Bin laden knows it.
But the real question remains, does he give a damn about any of them? I doubt it. People in power tend to use everybody else for their own gain.
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