AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-02-11, 13:19   Link #2121
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Say, I don't know if it has been posted yet, but I heard it is possible in Japan for the guy to bear the girl's surname upon marriage, though I'm not sure of the conditions required for this to happen.

Could somebody please clarify this?
What you have to understand is that traditionally, Japan was not a patriarchy, but more of a special type of "rule by family". It was the family, and by extension the surname, that was the true authority of the family, and it didn't really matter who represented the family (although by convention and Confucianism it was usually a male member). Because of this family superiority, a male would adopt the female's surname as a symbol of his being included into the female's family.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 14:58   Link #2122
Siegel Clyne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Heritage of Japan: Great Source for Things Japanese

For an outstanding and highly informative English-language website on Japan, its people and its culture, check out Heritage of Japan, owned by Singaporean-born Aileen Kawagoe, who is married to a Japanese man and lives in Japan.

Aileen Kawagoe's Facebook page can be found here.

Among other things, Heritage of Japan includes numerous articles on the latest research by Japanese and other anthropologists, molecular biologists, linguists, etc., on the origins and the roots of the Japanese people.
Siegel Clyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 15:45   Link #2123
flying ^
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
oh look...

looks like these guys also have to put up with the 'lamestream media' like here in the U.S.


http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2012/0...an-propaganda/
flying ^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 15:50   Link #2124
andyjay729
YOU EEDIOT!!!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I'm right behind you
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
The reason I use the term indigenous is that the Ainu represent an earlier migration out of Africa into eastern Asia. While they look more caucasian, almost Russian in some of those early photos, like you mentioned they are closely related to isolated Tibetan tribes and even have interestingly similar markers to Andaman islanders. The Andaman islands are one of the few places untouched by civilization today, and the people living there are descendents of one of the earliest waves out of Africa. The genetic marker similarities present the interesting case that the Ainu, Tibetan, and Andaman islanders may all be descended from these original migrants who took different paths out of Africa. Their skin and hair is phenotypic and could have evolved via convergent evolution similarly to Russian populations without being closely related.

Further, the paleolithic inhabitants of Japan were something more like the Ainu, and gradually were assimilated (meaning, they still do contribute to modern Japanese genetic heritage) by the later waves of migrants out of the continent during the Yayoi period. Some of these Jomon-era hunter gatherers lived in the far north, however, and preserved their culture without being assimilated, perhaps due to the difficulty in maintaining the agricultural society the Yayoi had imported in the colder climate. These people became the Ainu.
Jared Diamond hinted at this in the chapter on Japan in his book Guns, Germs and Steel. It has also been postulated that there was a "precursor" race throughout Asia which may have looked more similar to the Ainus, as well as the Negritos of the Philippines, the New Guinea natives and the Australian Aborigines. Does anyone else think that picture of an Ainu also looks similar to the stereotypical picture of an Aborigine?
andyjay729 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 16:04   Link #2125
Tom Bombadil
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
This does occur. Primarily if the man marries into a wealthy or prestigious family that has no sons of their own. They may wish to carry on their family legacy, but know they cannot do so with a daughter.

I believe there is a similiar chinese practice.
Yes, a man marrying in to a woman's family is an acceptable practice in China. It is mostly a case where a family without sons wants to continue their bloodline. The children will bear their mother's surname. But in China, neither one of the married couple change surnames.
__________________
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 17:34   Link #2126
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Do Japanese pay particular attention on middle names? I kinda asked when two cousins sharing surnames is married, the females middle name and surname will be the same. It applies then also to their child right?
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 17:48   Link #2127
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Do Japanese pay particular attention on middle names? I kinda asked when two cousins sharing surnames is married, the females middle name and surname will be the same. It applies then also to their child right?
I have no idea what you're talking about. Explain more clearly?
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 17:55   Link #2128
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about. Explain more clearly?
Example: Kai Minamoto's father and Sayaka Minamoto's father are brothers, which make them cousins. Now their fathers want them to get married. What will appear in Sayaka's new name after that?

She'll be Sayaka Minamoto Minamoto or still Sayaka Minamoto

Last edited by NoemiChan; 2012-02-11 at 18:40.
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 18:24   Link #2129
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Middle names?
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 18:30   Link #2130
DonQuigleone
Knight Errant
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 25
Do the Japanese even have middle names?
DonQuigleone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 18:38   Link #2131
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Do they? Well, sorry to bother,but I just don't know either....
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 19:03   Link #2132
NeoChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Infront of the Anime Shop
Age: 29
I read an page which seems to tell about Japanese culture and a little connection to middle names.

These are intended for fun.
http://www.asianjoke.com/japanese/yo...e_american.htm
NeoChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 19:30   Link #2133
Siegel Clyne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
The Central Asian and Mongoloid Ancestries of the Turkish People

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
What root language could Japanese and Turkish possibly have in common? A later comment mentioned that "funny gaijin" characters in Japanese theatrical performances were portrayed by Turkish actors. Is there any basis to these notions?
While this may have little or nothing to do with languages and linguistics...

Based on extensive data and evidence gathered by Turkish researchers and himself, the Greek anthropologist Dienekes Pontikos has been exploring for a number of years on his blog, Dienekes' Anthropology Blog, and his public genome blogging project, Dodecad Ancestry Project, the Central Asian and Mongoloid genetic heritages of the contemporary people of Turkey (modern-day Anatolia):


How Turkish are the Anatolians? February 11, 2005

Quote:
The Anatolians are the ethnic descendants of both the indigenous populations of Asia Minor who converted to Islam (and were thus spared from the genocidal campaign of the Ottomans and Kemalists during the early 20th century), and also of non-indigenous populations from the Balkans, the Middle East, and Central Asia. From Central Asia came the Turks, who were the main agent for the Islamization and during the last century Turkification of Asia Minor.

To what extent are the Anatolians descended from Central Asian Turks? The study of Cinnioglu et al. (2004) discovered an occurrence of 3.4% of Mongoloid Y-chromosomal haplogroups in Anatolia (haplogroups Q, O, and C).

According to Tambets et al. (2004) the occurrence of Mongoloid haplogroups in present-day Central Asian Turkic Altaic speakers (Altaians) is at least 40%, with an additional 10% which might belong to haplogroup O which was not tested in this study. According to Zerjal et al. (2002) this percentage is for various Turkic speakers: Kyrgyz (22%), Dungans (32%), Uyghurs (33%), Kazaks (86%), Uzbeks (18%).

It is clear that the percentage of Mongoloid ancestry among the Turkic speakers is very variable, yet it is clear that the Proto-Turks must have been partially Mongoloid in lieu of the fact that all current Turkic speakers possess some Mongoloid admixture. The average of the six Central Asian population samples listed above is 38.5% and may serve as a first-order estimate of the paternal contribution of early Turks, who (judging by their modern descendants in Central Asia) were more Caucasoid paternally and more Mongoloid maternally.

Dodecad Ancestry Project: How Turkish are Anatolians? revisiting the question Thursday, November 18, 2010

Quote:
In 2005, I estimated the Y-chromosome heritage of Turkic speakers on modern Anatolians at 11%.

In the same year, I estimated the Mongoloid admixture in Anatolian Turks at 6.2% on the basis of Y-chromosome and mtDNA. This is not inconsistent with the previous percentage, as the Turks, when they arrived in Anatolia were almost certainly of mixed Caucasoid-Mongoloid heritage.

Surprisingly, the maternal contribution from East Eurasia seems higher than the paternal one, on the basis of uniparental markers. But, that is not so surprising if one considers that the Turks who arrived to Anatolia were to a degree descended from Turkicized groups of Iranian steppe nomads bearing Caucasoid patrilineages. Already we have ancient DNA evidence of groups in Central Asia with Caucasoid patrlineages (R1a1) and mixed Caucasoid-Mongoloid mtDNA.

The Central Asian element in Turks (part 3) May 18, 2011

Quote:

Conclusion

The empirical data are consistent with the idea that Anatolian Turks are a simple mix of a West Eurasian population element equivalent to the average of their immediate neighbors, and a Central Asian population element similar to Uzbeks in a 6:1 analogy. These results confirm and extend the extensive evidence of the previous post.

UPDATE (May 21): In a new experiment, I demonstrate that all available Turkic samples fall almost perfectly on a cline between West and East Eurasians. That experiment also shows that Uzbeks are the most West Eurasian out of the available Central Asian Turkic populations.

It is still unclear what the ratio of West/East Eurasian elements in Turkic people who entered Anatolia was, but these results certainly point out that the Uzbeks are not unusually Mongoloid in their makeup among Turkic peoples, rather the opposite.

Last edited by Siegel Clyne; 2012-02-11 at 20:14.
Siegel Clyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-11, 20:32   Link #2134
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Example: Kai Minamoto's father and Sayaka Minamoto's father are brothers, which make them cousins. Now their fathers want them to get married. What will appear in Sayaka's new name after that?

She'll be Sayaka Minamoto Minamoto or still Sayaka Minamoto
There are no double surnames in Japanese, unlike those that appear in Spanish.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-12, 19:46   Link #2135
Nerroth
Alea iacta est.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 33
There is a very useful work I was able to loan out at the Japan Foundation in downtown Toronto, called Ainu: Spirit of a Northern People; which was put together a few years back for an Ainu exhibit held at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington D.C.

(As it happens, just a few minutes's walk along Bloor Street West from the Japan Foundation library is the Royal Ontario Museum, which has the largest collection of Ainu material in Canada.)


Interestingly, there have been links forged between Ainu groups in Hokkaido and various First Nations in Canada; the efforts in recent decades to improve the status (and visibility) of Canada's indigenous peoples (to also include the Inuit and Métis) has been said to inspire those looking to keep the Ainu linguistic and cultural heritage of Hokkaido a going concern.


Actually, I had one question about the "Yamato" culture in Hokkaido (which, north of Hakodate, is only about as old as, say, the European presence in British Columbia). Is there any particular region of pre-Meiji Japan where the bulk of settlers went to the island from; and if so, did they bring their particular regional dialect and/or cultural quirks with them? Or is the non-Ainu culture of Hokkaido considered to have become its own thing, relative to more southerly parts of the country?
__________________
Nerroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-12, 22:00   Link #2136
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
There are no double surnames in Japanese, unlike those that appear in Spanish.
Or hell, practically any other culture not Spanish in origin.
And I hate it too.

"Listen here Mr. Guadalupe-Villanueva, I only got like 10 characters in the surname field, can you please make up your mind which one you'd like to use?"

I kid, I kid. Don't go no Desperado on me
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-12, 23:13   Link #2137
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Or hell, practically any other culture not Spanish in origin.
And I hate it too.

"Listen here Mr. Guadalupe-Villanueva, I only got like 10 characters in the surname field, can you please make up your mind which one you'd like to use?"

I kid, I kid. Don't go no Desperado on me
You laugh... that's a longstanding problem with poorly written human records software (European bias assumptions) and not just for spanish names.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-12, 23:20   Link #2138
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerroth View Post
Interestingly, there have been links forged between Ainu groups in Hokkaido and various First Nations in Canada; the efforts in recent decades to improve the status (and visibility) of Canada's indigenous peoples (to also include the Inuit and Métis) has been said to inspire those looking to keep the Ainu linguistic and cultural heritage of Hokkaido a going concern.
There are some interesting cultural parallels between the North American Amerindians and the Ainu as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
You laugh... that's a longstanding problem with poorly written human records software (European bias assumptions) and not just for spanish names.
^The aforementioned pre-Columbian Americas had some cultures with very, very long names with more than just two surnames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post
Jared Diamond hinted at this in the chapter on Japan in his book Guns, Germs and Steel. It has also been postulated that there was a "precursor" race throughout Asia which may have looked more similar to the Ainus, as well as the Negritos of the Philippines, the New Guinea natives and the Australian Aborigines. Does anyone else think that picture of an Ainu also looks similar to the stereotypical picture of an Aborigine?
Indeed. It would be something if they were both descendents of the early migrants, ending up in entirely different climates yet both preserving the primacy that their ancestors shared. I love this type of stuff, lol
ChainLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-12, 23:43   Link #2139
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
You laugh... that's a longstanding problem with poorly written human records software (European bias assumptions) and not just for spanish names.
Well, at least most of those are long gone by now.
With Spanish surnames, I still have to work with this day and age.
And here in southern USA we get a lot of these.

Why can't those financing software have two fields long for family names!?
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-13, 00:51   Link #2140
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Well, at least most of those are long gone by now.
With Spanish surnames, I still have to work with this day and age.
And here in southern USA we get a lot of these.

Why can't those financing software have two fields long for family names!?
The real question is why is there a fixed limit at all.... variable length records are not exactly new concepts.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
culture, discussion, japan, japanese culture

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.