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Old 2012-02-14, 07:53   Link #2161
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Er... again, how's he the "saner" choice?

Were the alternatives that rotten, or is there something less savoury about Tokyo residents that we should be aware about?
The alternatives were just comedy, being either an entertainer-turned-governor, a casual pub chain founder, and a (communist) gastroenterology physician. None of them had any sort of "vision" that might have appealed to the voters, so it was a safe choice to go with Ishihara because he was still successful with running Tokyo.
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Old 2012-02-14, 18:32   Link #2162
MakubeX2
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Add anti-gay, mysoginist/sexist, anti-foreigners, and anti-disabled.

The dude hates a lot of people.
Sounds like your typical Japanese mentality to me. Remember, traditionally and historically, Japan is a closed society with displays of xenophobia. Some says the Japanese are just about the most racist people on earth.

Then, this could be Ishihara's Omote which he use to appeal to voters. We know nothing about him and we can't judge him as a person.
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Old 2012-02-14, 19:15   Link #2163
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Ishihara might be governor of Tokyo until he dies but I don't see him or any of the other fogies in that party having an impact on national politics.

Former governor of Osaka prefecture and current mayor of Osaka (city) Hashimoto Toru is a much more interesting character and is topping some polls. I can see him being the next Ozawa (that is, Ozawa before the corruption charges destroyed him).

http://sigma1.wordpress.com/2012/02/...ection-likely/
http://spikejapan.wordpress.com/2012...e-the-hashist/

How successful all of these new small parties will be is going to be affected by reforms to the electoral system. The Supreme Court has ruled the current disparities between small and large electoral districts unconstitutional. In addition to drawing up new electoral districts, the Diet is currently debating changes to the method of allocating PR seats.
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Old 2012-02-15, 02:15   Link #2164
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Demon View Post
Former governor of Osaka prefecture and current mayor of Osaka (city) Hashimoto Toru is a much more interesting character and is topping some polls. I can see him being the next Ozawa (that is, Ozawa before the corruption charges destroyed him).

http://sigma1.wordpress.com/2012/02/...ection-likely/
http://spikejapan.wordpress.com/2012...e-the-hashist/

How successful all of these new small parties will be is going to be affected by reforms to the electoral system. The Supreme Court has ruled the current disparities between small and large electoral districts unconstitutional. In addition to drawing up new electoral districts, the Diet is currently debating changes to the method of allocating PR seats.
Thanks for the links. The last point you raised was one of the many things I wanted to explore further after reading Kwan's report, namely the relationship between small and large electoral districts in Japan, as well as Hashimoto's idea of transforming prefectures into autonomous regions. (I'm of the view that "rotten boroughs" in rural areas need to be scrapped. It's skewing national politics by far too much.)

It's the first time I've heard of such ideas, and the last time I've come across something remotely similar was in, of all places, an anime (Toshokan Sensou; am very much looking forward to the movie!), whose entire premise rested on political tensions between Japan's local and national governments.

(1)
Japan is very far away from the federal system of government used in the United States, so it's difficult for an outsider like me to grasp how much traction Hashimoto's proposed reforms has. What is the "Japanese experience" with respect to federalism? This is not a trivial question, as the political system can work very differently in different contexts. Take Malaysia, for example. It is ostensibly a federation but, for most intents and purposes, governance on most aspects of day-to-day life is largely determined by national policies (in that the local branches of the ruling Umno coalition do not typically deviate very far from the dictates of Kuala Lumpur). "Federalism" exerts itself in Malaysia mainly through syriah laws, which makes the Sultan of each state the ultimate authority on Islamic civil laws within his state though, in practice, the monarch doesn't wield much power.

Despite periods of fragmentation in Japanese history, I don't recall a time when regional autonomy exerted itself strongly in the "national" consciousness. Loyalties in the past tended to be more "personal" (loyalty to liege and clan) than "regional" (as in, people from Kyushu rarely identified themselves as distinct from those of Honshu, in the way Okinawans might, for example).

(2)
Come to think of it, how much power do mayors and prefectural governors actually wield in Japan? I mean, is the mayor of Tokyo taken any more seriously than the mayor of London? (Londoners don't really care much about the office. Boris Johnson is more often good for comedy value than actual governance.) Is holding such office a necessary step to higher office in national government?

(3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
Sounds like your typical Japanese mentality to me. Remember, traditionally and historically, Japan is a closed society with displays of xenophobia. Some says the Japanese are just about the most racist people on earth.

Then, this could be Ishihara's Omote which he use to appeal to voters. We know nothing about him and we can't judge him as a person.
And that's something worth investigating, because the media, mainstream or otherwise, does not always do a good job of reflecting ground sentiment. To use a Singaporean experience, if one were to rely entirely on social media during the run-up to last year's General Election, one would have expected landslide wins for the opposition in a keenly contested constituency. As it turns out, the opposition lost. It didn't even manage a convincing margin of loss; it was soundly beaten, no mistake.

Similarly, to what extent is media not capturing the "silent majority" view in Tokyo, with regard to a politician like Ishihara? For a man with such controversial views to be popular, what does it actually say about mainstream views in Tokyo? And is that something to be concerned about, or more a reflection of reactionary views that are more usually put aside by saner people?
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Old 2012-02-15, 09:39   Link #2165
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by Shinji01 View Post
This is why I wish I had paid attention during class in high school...
I think what my teacher was trying to say was the same thing. That the Ainu share similar roots with many other strands of people around the world, but the question is, in which order did they migrate into japan and influence their culture?

The mainstream understanding is that Ainu where there long before other people, but when you trace the cultures from a linguistic point of view, Japan could have been influenced from the Southern areas...or something like that.

The sad thing is, very little schools teach this stuff, and most Japanese take being Japanese for granted and think we are just "Japanese".

Very interesting field to study.
Well, the 'mainstream view' is supported archaeologically and even by skeletal remains. Couple that with the genetic similarity to other early migrants and it is far more likely the Ainu were the 'original' inhabitants of Japan. But there is no 'true' Japanese, and it's not a competition, so whoever came first to the archipelago, is by no means 'more' legitimate.

Like I said before, most of the would-be Ainu were simply assimilated by the migrating proto-Japanese, meaning both groups contribute to the modern Japanese identity. As for linguistics, it's not surprising that the Yayoi-era agriculturalists spread their language more efficiently than the Ainu. This is a common feature when one compares agricultural societies to hunter-gatherer ones.

Due to a greater degree of interconnectedness, and a greater need for contact with more people (communal farming techniques as well as trade), the languages of agricultural societies often replace hunter-gatherer languages. The same thing appears to be the case on the opposite end of the Eurasian supercontinent; the British Isles historically spoke Celtic languages despite there being no archaeological evidence of large-scale migrations of Celts into the islands. The reason for this is cultural diffusion: the farming techniques that these early Britons/Gaels adopted from the mainland Gauls also led to a gradual adoption of their language (which makes sense - there were perhaps many terms related to their sedentary way of life that wouldn't exist for a hunter-gatherer society).
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Old 2012-02-15, 09:53   Link #2166
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
And that's something worth investigating, because the media, mainstream or otherwise, does not always do a good job of reflecting ground sentiment. To use a Singaporean experience, if one were to rely entirely on social media during the run-up to last year's General Election, one would have expected landslide wins for the opposition in a keenly contested constituency. As it turns out, the opposition lost. It didn't even manage a convincing margin of loss; it was soundly beaten, no mistake.
Note : The reason why they were soundly beaten because many chose to vote with their feet/least evil. The number of spoilt votes are pretty high as compared to the previous elections.

Social media has convinced people that the competition are just as garbage as most of the ruling party, if not worse. Besides, it is illegal not to vote during an election - the people could be just following the law against their desire, and chose a pragmatic choice.
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Old 2012-02-15, 10:16   Link #2167
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Via Cracked... but this is probably the most amazing samurai skills with a katana I've come across.

So did he cut the plate without notching the blade?
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Old 2012-02-15, 11:59   Link #2168
warita
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Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
Sounds like your typical Japanese mentality to me. Remember, traditionally and historically, Japan is a closed society with displays of xenophobia. Some says the Japanese are just about the most racist people on earth.
Its not only that. During the decades of the japanese economy miracle, Japanese came to believe they are something better than the rest of the world. Their economy was booming, their education system one of the best in the world... they indeed had something to be proud of. However, there was and still is a dark side to the japanese way of doing things and it led to the problems the economy experiencing and the society as a whole suffers from today.

Things are changing... Japan no longer is number one in the world in terms out output per capita, their economy is doing so so and the population is plagued by many demographic and social problems. Japanese people are changing too. They no longer believe themselves invincible and have a more down to earth outlook on things.... one might even say pessimistic. It is however the older generation, that still clings to the good old times and believes Japan is best when it remains japanese.... and the best way to protect japanese interests is to protect Japan from the outside world.

I believe this attitude will eventually disappear as the new generation replaces the old one.

Last edited by warita; 2012-02-15 at 12:11.
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Old 2012-02-15, 12:54   Link #2169
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by warita View Post
Its not only that. During the decades of the japanese economy miracle, Japanese came to believe they are something better than the rest of the world. Their economy was booming, their education system one of the best in the world... they indeed had something to be proud of. However, there was and still is a dark side to the japanese way of doing things and it led to the problems the economy experiencing and the society as a whole suffers from today.

Things are changing... Japan no longer is number one in the world in terms out output per capita, their economy is doing so so and the population is plagued by many demographic and social problems. Japanese people are changing too. They no longer believe themselves invincible and have a more down to earth outlook on things.... one might even say pessimistic. It is however the older generation, that still clings to the good old times and believes Japan is best when it remains japanese.... and the best way to protect japanese interests is to protect Japan from the outside world.

I believe this attitude will eventually disappear as the new generation replaces the old one.
Come to think of it, that kind of superiority complex does have its pros, it keeps the Japanese society up on their toes, standing tall and doing things the efficient and high quality way. I have always marveled at their work ethic and spirit - they will choose to sacrifice their time and do extra in order to build a better company or family. And the way they do cohesions - I remember my friend's father (old grandfather tales) telling me about the shipyard-wide morning exercises when that old man went there to train their dockworkers on marine welding in the 1980s.

The problem is the arrogance that comes with superiority - "we are the best and we set an example by the way we behave" is great, but "we are the best, nobody is better than us so therefore you should listen to us" isn't.

Though I feel that the general society has already given up hope on their leaders to turn them to become as economically capable as before. As sure as the Japanese culture and language is a huge draw due to their ever-so interesting media products, it is difficult to learn. Their country could do much better if they put an emphasis on biliguality - allows them to sell their stuff anywhere else in the world. They could ask the Singaporean educators for help, and at the same time, our educators could learn a whole crapload more from how their kids manage to crap that lot of information into their heads, yet still be able to enjoy their lives - probably a secret to their creative abilities.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-02-15, 18:56   Link #2170
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warita View Post
Things are changing... Japan no longer is number one in the world in terms out output per capita, their economy is doing so so and the population is plagued by many demographic and social problems. Japanese people are changing too. They no longer believe themselves invincible and have a more down to earth outlook on things.... one might even say pessimistic.
The Japanese will bounce back. Perry bombarded them and it resulted in the Japanese being a major power in WW II.

When 2 nukes fall on them, they got busy rebuilding and culminated in being a major power again, this time economically, for about 30 years or so.

It's a pride thing,see ? The Japanese are proud people, it's in their blood. So what's stopping them from rising again ?
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Old 2012-02-15, 19:50   Link #2171
DonQuigleone
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Japan has, in some ways, better corporate culture then the USA. Less "fragmented".

Put it this way, if you take your average factory, in America, all the managers have swank offices, their own parking spaces, their own private bathroom and cafeteria, and rarely go down to the floor.

In Japan, at least at the likes of Toyota or Mitsubishi, there's none of that, Executives don't have any perks like that, they work in offices on the ground floor, they don't have their own parking, toilets or cafeteria. There's no adversarial relationship between management and employees. Both sides have an understanding that it's in their mutual best interest for the company to prosper, and in return, both are rewarded adequately. In an american factory, it's entirely adversarial, Employees are just out for themselves, and management just want to pursue the bottom line above all else, ignoring worker's concerns unless they're threatened with a strike. Unhealthy.

Heck, at a Japanese plant, the Engineers and management even wear Blue overalls like the worker, even though they don't really have to. Creates a feeling of unity.

Now I don't know how it is in all japanese companies, but that's how it is at Japan's big factories, and why Japanese style Manufacturing completely defeated US manufacturing in the 80s. (Since then American manufacturers have started to learn though )
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Old 2012-02-15, 20:20   Link #2172
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
The Japanese will bounce back. Perry bombarded them and it resulted in the Japanese being a major power in WW II.

When 2 nukes fall on them, they got busy rebuilding and culminated in being a major power again, this time economically, for about 30 years or so.

It's a pride thing,see ? The Japanese are proud people, it's in their blood. So what's stopping them from rising again ?
You forgot: That was with all the free money, technology, and support the US provided. Without those, Japan would never have risen. Of course, if the people didn't work all such stuff would have not amounted to anything, but we need to recognize both sides of the equation.
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Old 2012-02-15, 21:45   Link #2173
aohige
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Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
Sounds like your typical Japanese mentality to me. Remember, traditionally and historically, Japan is a closed society with displays of xenophobia. Some says the Japanese are just about the most racist people on earth.

Then, this could be Ishihara's Omote which he use to appeal to voters. We know nothing about him and we can't judge him as a person.
I'm not even going to entertain you with a reply, as you clearly despise and disrespect me and my kind.
Whatever nationality you are, I'm sure you don't mind equally degrading and racist comment made to your face.
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Old 2012-02-15, 21:51   Link #2174
warita
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All the things about working hard and unity stuff sounds all nice, but there is a downside to it too. I am an economist, so I know.

As for the "lets work hard and rebuild".... Japan has been doing that since the big bubble burst and guess what... its not working. Not anymore. Japanese companies are efficient, but inflexible. The same goes for their employees. I am not saying american do it all better.... just that the japanese way is not optimal and they are paying the price for it.

As for how wonderful the cohesion in a japanese company is.... I think of it as less lovely, when the employees cant go home after their working time is over, because the boss is doing overtime and the employees are expected to stay at work until the boss wraps up. I also have to think of all the families, that practically dont see their father and lately even their mother, because parents are working and kids are alone at home. Lets not even talk about the amount of vacation time, which closes on zero. Japan is the land where people literally work themselves to death, the japanese language has a word for it, did you know?

Is this something to be admired? I think not.... and what about the quality of life?
I dont know how about you, but I work to live, not live to work!!

Last edited by warita; 2012-02-15 at 22:02.
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Old 2012-02-15, 21:57   Link #2175
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I agree that some parts of Japan's corporate culture are better than America's. For instance, many big Japanese firms own inefficient restaurant chains. Western economists chide Japanese conglomerates for not cutting away their money-losing parts, but I've heard some restaurant chains employ mentally disabled people which helps society.

Part of the problem with Japan's economy is summarized with this comparison:

Japan's nominal GDP per capita: $45,774
Taiwan's nominal GDP per capita: $21,592

Japan's GDP per capita at PPP: $34,362
Taiwan's GDP per capita at PPP: $37,931

(2011 IMF figures)

Article from two years ago explaining these numbers

The high price of goods in Japan matters for Japanese people. Bad policies are making them poorer than they should be and their lives are more difficult because of it. If things are going to improve in Japan they'll have to drop the protectionism and put Japanese consumers before special interests. Joining TPP will help.

Even still, there are the problems of labor markets, demographics, energy, social safety-nets... and the entire political system is too dysfunctional to deal with any of this.
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Old 2012-02-15, 22:08   Link #2176
djmaca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2;400611[B
8]Sounds like your typical Japanese mentality to me. Remember, traditionally and historically, Japan is a closed society with displays of xenophobia. Some says the Japanese are just about the most racist people on earth.[/B]

Then, this could be Ishihara's Omote which he use to appeal to voters. We know nothing about him and we can't judge him as a person.
Not true. As a Filipino whose father is part of the Diaspora movement in the early 1990's I'll tell you that the most racist society that walked the earth are Australians. Followed by Brits. Japan comes in at 4th. U.S. comes last.

U.S. however has the highest number for sexual crimes against Filipinos. Well not really just us. They also have it against Thailand and Vietnam.

On other news...
Ishihara... is shit. He's just against anime and manga porn because his own porn he written himself, which contains a LOT of RAPE, didn't sell as well.

LN porns.. Pfft. BAD IDEA.
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Old 2012-02-16, 05:27   Link #2177
Shinji01
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Well, I grew up in Australia, my relatives are American & British and I am Japanese, and from my point of view, the Japanese are racist, but openly racist in such a way that we would treat all non-Japanese as “guests”. They will not be racist to anyones face, but they will not accept you either.
Many of the Aussie white people are openly racist and ignorant. They will be racist to your face, so you feel it stronger.
The US and British are racists on the inside but doing a good job of trying to hide it.
Its up to you to choose whose side you want to be on.
I choose the Japanese because even if they tend to be careful and timid= racist towards the “gaijin” they have less direct aggressiveness (of course there are some super right wing anti-Korean people, but they are rare)
Racism will never go away. It’s just how you express it that makes the difference.

Also, the Japanese work ethic has very little flexibility, and people drop dead from over working, but at the same time there is loyalty to the team and company that helps to get things done.
I used to work with the US and Japanese military and found out that the US military can get things done real fast, but are not so good at long term goals, whereas the Japanese take forever to get a move on but they plan ahead very carefully and are meticulous with their work.
Of course, getting perks like in the US is cool, but if it doesn’t match the local culture, it can backfire on productivity. Some people respond well to the traditional work ethic, whereas others will rather die than work like that.
Neither method and culture are right or wrong, and it’s up to the individual to really take a good look at choosing which company to work in. Fortunately, these days people can choose.


Now, as for Ishihara, as long as he is anti-hayfever and will really take action to get rid of those allergy causing trees, he will always have my vote.
Plus he has crazy ambitions for Tokyo, like opening casinos and holding the Olympics etc. I like that. Young people like him too and I don’t think he will be going away anytime soon.
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Old 2012-02-16, 08:09   Link #2178
monsta666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Demon View Post
I agree that some parts of Japan's corporate culture are better than America's. For instance, many big Japanese firms own inefficient restaurant chains. Western economists chide Japanese conglomerates for not cutting away their money-losing parts, but I've heard some restaurant chains employ mentally disabled people which helps society.

Part of the problem with Japan's economy is summarized with this comparison:

Japan's nominal GDP per capita: $45,774
Taiwan's nominal GDP per capita: $21,592

Japan's GDP per capita at PPP: $34,362
Taiwan's GDP per capita at PPP: $37,931

(2011 IMF figures)
Well this statistic is partly the legacy of Japan's miracle economy as one of it's side-effects of that economy was to have a chronically undervalued currency. While this was a boon for exporters as it made them more competitive, it came at the cost of the Japanese consumer as not only were their wages lowered but the relative prices of goods inside the country would be more expensive because of this policy of currency devaluation.

Furthermore Japan's food and general service economy is highly sheltered from the outside world so this industry is not very competitive nor efficient from a international stand point. However it is protected by the government so they are not exposed to foreign competition which is good for them because they would have died out if that happened. It is not so good for the average Japanese consumer however. What should also be noted is the farmers union hold quite a large amount of power relative to their population size. A lot of the food produced by these farmers are prohibitively expensive (about 350% higher than the world average I believe) but they are protected by the government. This all leads to higher food costs for the Japanese consumer.

On the other hand less developed countries tend to perform better when GDP per capita is expressed in purchasing power parity (ppp) terms due to the fact that the cost of living is lower due to lower cost of goods/services which is the result of lower average wages. All this leads to the huge differences in statistics you noted above. What we should also be aware is ppp is mainly useful if you wish to compare your purchasing power in each individual country. If you want to trade with many foreign countries then nominal GDP is more suitable than ppp GDP and seeing as both countries are export driven economies then having a larger nominal GDP is better. For a consumer society such as USA or the UK ppp GDP would be more relevant as private consumption forms a larger part of the economy.

Going back to the miracle economy of Japan. One of the ways Japan did grow so rapidly was because they followed a model of a investment & export-driven economy. A lot of their early success, and subsequent problems, largely stem from these economic policies. Initially all the major corporations were shielded from the world economy through protectionist policies which allowed them to develop without being undermined by foreign companies. These companies were also given easy access to credit from the government to encourage them to invest (much to the cost of small to medium businesses who had less easy access to credit as more of it was diverted to the big companies). Interest rates where kept lower than normal so as to encourage investment rather than saving. Although with that said the Japanese culture favours saving so the average did save the more than their western counterparts despite the less favourable conditions for doing so. Still, the major companies and government in Japan used these deposits to fuel investments in their once rapidly growing economy (now these savings are mainly utilised by the government to service their great debts which stand at around 200% GDP).

Finally the government purposely kept the value of the yen low through capital controls and a constant injection of money via loans to keep the yen low so exporters would remain cheap. It was a source of great frustration for American multinationals and for about 10 years they exerted enormous pressure on the Japanese to reverse this policy. For awhile the Japanese resisted but even they could begin to see these policies were damaging the spending power of consumers and with the Japanese exporters beginning to saturate their foreign markets the Japanese economists of the time realised their last source of real growth would have to come from the Japanese consumer. Unfortunately when they tried to reverse this policy by signing the Plaza accord in 1985 and opened the yen currency completely to foreign markets it ultimately lead to a massive real estate bubble.

This real estate bubble occurred because a lot of hot cash entered the Japanese economy and many of the big Japanese businesses saw easier returns in managing this new source of money rather than focussing on their core businesses. They invested in real estate and asset flipping and this lead to massive increases in land and property values another side effect was Nikkel index sky-rocketed to 40,000 (consider the fact this index has dropped 75% since then) due to this large influx of hot money. This all came to a head however when the real estate bubble imploded and many companies and banks lost a lot of money. After that Japan suffered from two lost decades. Their recovery has not been helped by the fact of poor demographics and the other Asian tigers particularly South Korea stealing their market share in electronics and other key industries.

Japan have never truly resolved these problems and with a debt of 200% GDP which is constantly growing and declining saving rates from the Japanese due to poor demographics this debt bubble will burst and it will not be pretty. Saying that the Japanese are a hardly folk, are socially cohesive, know how to cope with sacrifice and generally follow the rules rigorously even in dire circumstances. So I would imagine they would cope with this coming crisis better than most... However the biggest point I wanted to make out of this essay is that while the Japanese economy has done some truly amazing things it has come at huge economic costs too. I didn't really elaborate on the work culture as that is already widely known.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
Not true. As a Filipino whose father is part of the Diaspora movement in the early 1990's I'll tell you that the most racist society that walked the earth are Australians. Followed by Brits. Japan comes in at 4th. U.S. comes last.
As a Brit living in the UK who happens to come from a minority ethnic background I don't know how true this is. I never experienced big problems due to racism from living in London or in smaller places like Norwich when I was practically the only person of my race in that city. Everyone seemed to treat me just fine over there. The same could also be said when I lived in Scotland. I don't know about Wales but I did have friends of my race who did live there and I did not hear anything bad happen to them living there.
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Old 2012-02-16, 10:00   Link #2179
MakubeX2
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
I'm not even going to entertain you with a reply, as you clearly despise and disrespect me and my kind.
Whatever nationality you are, I'm sure you don't mind equally degrading and racist comment made to your face.
I have nothing aganist you Japanese folks personally. I apologise if this conclusion of mine from readings and observations offended you. I could cite examples from the past 2 decades or so, but you only need to look no further at the 2ch today where the anonymous nature of the boards allows people to post what comes to mind at once without any fear of reprecussions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji01 View Post
the Japanese are racist, but openly racist in such a way that we would treat all non-Japanese as “guests”. They will not be racist to anyones face, but they will not accept you either.
The polite subtle approach you mean, doing small things that makes one feel unwelcomed. Like restricting you from certain places with excuses and apologies, making you to last to be served, etc until you get the message.

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Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
Not true. As a Filipino whose father is part of the Diaspora movement in the early 1990's I'll tell you that the most racist society that walked the earth are Australians. Followed by Brits. Japan comes in at 4th. U.S. comes last.
Hence, the "just about" in the eaelier posting. And I'll like to emphasis on the word "some" too to represent that only a fraction of people share that thought.
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Old 2012-02-16, 10:30   Link #2180
warita
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vienna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji01 View Post
Many of the Aussie white people are openly racist and ignorant. They will be racist to your face, so you feel it stronger.
The US and British are racists on the inside but doing a good job of trying to hide it.
I choose the Japanese because even if they tend to be careful and timid= racist towards the “gaijin” they have less direct aggressiveness (of course there are some super right wing anti-Korean people, but they are rare)
Racism will never go away. It’s just how you express it that makes the difference.
That really depends how you look at it. The direct racists are dicks, no question about it, but at least you know how they feel about you and you can think to yourself "kiss my ass".
The japanese way you described is two faced behaviour. Japanese people will be seemingly polite, smile at you, say nice things and then in all silence they cut you off, because they dont like you. And then you are left wondering what the hell happened. Did you do something they considered rude, is it your race... is it your breath, or is it just them being japanese? I mean, what exactly is the up side of this "subtle racism"? You consider that better, because it enables you to pretend nothing is wrong, even though obviously it is?

Quote:
The polite subtle approach you mean, doing small things that makes one feel unwelcomed. Like restricting you from certain places with excuses and apologies, making you to last to be served, etc until you get the message.
I heard this is pretty common in Japan. Now, I have never been to Japan, so cant say anything about that.... but I do go to this japanese store in Vienna to buy japanese supplies for my cooking experiments and you sure do feel like a second class customer. They wont even greet you, when you come in.... they do however greet their japanese customers.
As a rule, you will be ignored, unless you directly ask the clerk to help you find what you are looking for. And even that is only possible, if there are no other japanese customers in the store.
Now I get it, that they need to be extra polite to their japanese customers, as they are the regular customers in the store and probably bring in the most cash. But the way they treat non japanese customers sends a clear message: You are not really welcome here. Yeah we will sell you that product, if you want it, we wont say no to your money, but we still prefer you dont shop here. Because if they valued austrian customers too, the approach would be different.

But I do agree japanese are a well mannered nation. They jail you politely, fine you gently, deport you nicely and blacklist you kindly! :P (not to be taken too seriously folks!!)

Last edited by warita; 2012-02-16 at 11:06.
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