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Old 2009-06-10, 07:35   Link #1141
BASS in SPACE
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Quote:
Apparently to cause a public outcry or to even physically retaliate if someone hit you is to cause more trouble on your end than the original perpetrator (lame...)
So... Say I see this happening on a train, and i start rubbing up against the guy doing it, is he gonna have to "endure it" too?

Seriously though, if a girl were to let's say not SHOUT, but just tell the person firmly to stop doing what he's doing, she wouldn't be in the wrong would she? Sexual harassment has got to be more of a social crime than merely sticking out... Right? Do Japanese trains have security guards or anything of the sort on them? And damn, if the Japanese don't seem to have a name for everything. Sexuhara...

With the 7:30am to 9:30am thing, would that be due to the morning rush and everyone getting to work? So you know, it's "not your fault" that you just happened to be rocking with the train against a girl. Or are Japanese trains crowded all the time?
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Old 2009-06-10, 10:43   Link #1142
noraemon
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
In *your* experience, is the perception of otaku improving slowly? Are enough otaku becoming part of daily society to reduce the public perception that all otaku are dangerous and creepy?

(I know what aohige and others think, just want to see what noraemon's experience is)
I think that the recognition of the otaku improves.

The company where otaku did not have the interest enters the otaku market till now.
The company was not able to ignore an otaku market and the otaku.
However, the prejudice to the otaku is still left.
The otaku is absorbed thoroughly. It is beyond the understanding of general people.
That is why the people have fear and feelings to be weird. As for it, there is no help for it.

The person is afraid of a thing unlike sense of values of oneself.
It is the otaku of the foreigner to have appeared to there.
The people of countries except Japan watched the figure which enjoyed manga and anime as otaku, and the general Japanese came to recognize it when the otaku was not special taste. Manga and the anime are one of the universal pleasure of the human. The Japanese otaku is pleased with a fellow being in the foreign country very much.
Across the border, it is splendid that a hobby and taste match, and conversation is possible.

As for making a note here, it is made a very English study.
It takes time to read that write it,; but ...
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Old 2009-06-10, 17:41   Link #1143
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASS in SPACE View Post
So... Say I see this happening on a train, and i start rubbing up against the guy doing it, is he gonna have to "endure it" too?

Seriously though, if a girl were to let's say not SHOUT, but just tell the person firmly to stop doing what he's doing, she wouldn't be in the wrong would she? Sexual harassment has got to be more of a social crime than merely sticking out... Right? Do Japanese trains have security guards or anything of the sort on them? And damn, if the Japanese don't seem to have a name for everything. Sexuhara...

With the 7:30am to 9:30am thing, would that be due to the morning rush and everyone getting to work? So you know, it's "not your fault" that you just happened to be rocking with the train against a girl. Or are Japanese trains crowded all the time?
Japanese trains are crowded all the damn time, or as I call it:
24/7 rush hour in Tokyo.
Times of about midday-2pm = half empty carts, otherwise meh, from the first trains about 4.45am to the last trains about 0.30am = crowded.

Security guards? *laughs*
As much security guards as they'd be on NY's subway or London's tube; no there are none and not needed tbh

If a girl were to speak out, she wouldn't be in the wrong, but this is how far they go with 'not saying anything'
London: Tube is crowded, need to get out. A person politely would say 'excuse me please', and the other sometimes will apologise or just be startled and move out for you.
Tokyo: Metro is crowded, need to get out. A person will try to swerve and push and worm their way through asap before the door closes without saying a damn word. I say 'sumimasen', which works plenty fine, but a lot of natives remain quiet.

Even when a train is full and you get people trying to cram on the edge of the cart before the doors close on them, they'll jump in and push the rest of us back just to make space.
No one says anything - though sometimes it helps to stonily look at them on the platform and then they scamper off to another cart to try to squeeze in, lol. I'll probably try it this morning.

So even for a girl to say something, it's still 'drawing attention in public' - i guess most would feel uncomfy.
And yeah, if you tried rubbing up a guy, he'll either try to ignore you as much as poss, read his newspaper way too hard or actually smile to you

But we need less Japanese males being scared of Western girls not more so behave, okay?
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Old 2009-06-10, 18:13   Link #1144
Autumn Demon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASS in SPACE View Post
Apparently, it's not too rare to see old or middle aged men rubbing up against girls in a crowded train.
There's a good movie about this phenomenon, Soredemo boku wa yattenai, although it's more about the flaws of the Japanese judicial system than about train molestation.

There's also an anime series solely about train molestation ...but you can imagine what genre it falls into.
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Old 2009-06-10, 18:19   Link #1145
Thyrz
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Although I know that anime otaku are socially pretty much the lowest of low, there appear to be exceptions. The main-stream ones like Sazae-san are obvious, but what about Space Battleship Yamato / Uchuu Senkan Yamato? I've seen it mentioned on Japanese TV at least twice, one of them (in a joke) by Matsumoto Hitoshi from the Downtown Duo.
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Old 2009-06-10, 18:28   Link #1146
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thyrz View Post
Although I know that anime otaku are socially pretty much the lowest of low, there appear to be exceptions. The main-stream ones like Sazae-san are obvious, but what about Space Battleship Yamato / Uchuu Senkan Yamato? I've seen it mentioned on Japanese TV at least twice, one of them (in a joke) by Matsumoto Hitoshi from the Downtown Duo.
Doraemon... you apparently can't go wrong by publicly being a fan of Doraemon. Miyazaki works are also acceptable.

Its one reason I sometimes say the perception of otaku improves with every funeral. The established older generation in Japan think the stuff they watched as kids is "okay if childish". As otaku (minus the hikkomori) age and move into positions of authority or become prevalent -- the general attitudes toward "obsessive hobbyists" (otaku) will improve.

As one of our posters who lives in Japan said, the simple fact that the REST OF THE WORLD LOVES THIS STUFF is making Joe/Jane Average Japanese reconsider a bit.
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Old 2009-06-11, 00:45   Link #1147
noraemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thyrz View Post
Although I know that anime otaku are socially pretty much the lowest of low, there appear to be exceptions. The main-stream ones like Sazae-san are obvious, but what about Space Battleship Yamato / Uchuu Senkan Yamato? I've seen it mentioned on Japanese TV at least twice, one of them (in a joke) by Matsumoto Hitoshi from the Downtown Duo.
A comedian and an emcee speak an anime and a joke of manga in TV well.
For a Japanese equal to or less than 50 years old, the famous anime and manga are basic knowledge, and it is common sense.
Therefore it can become the joke.
As for the knowledge that anyone knows is because is it.
The mimicry of the character of the anime is popular very much.

There is not the Japanese without having watched an anime and manga of
"Gundam" "Macross" "dragon ball" "Doraemon" "crayon shinchan" "Yamato" "Sazae-san " "Galaxy Express999" "Lupin the Third" etc these.

However, it is not otaku only by knowing it.
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Old 2009-06-11, 07:53   Link #1148
BASS in SPACE
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"Security guards" was a bad choice of words on my part. I meant more like ticket inspectors. We have them here in Australia, but they are a less than constant presence on our public transport system...

Quote:
But we need less Japanese males being scared of Western girls not more so behave, okay?
I am an Asian male, so do not worry hehe... It just took my fancy to imagine some pervert getting a taste of his own medicine from another male... Which brings me to another question. I am always hearing stories about an ultra conservative attitude in Japan, so what is their take on homosexuality? Are people open about it? If I was so inclined, could I just bring it up in a conversation without raising eyebrows? When I say "bring it up in a conversation", I mean within reason of course. I'm not talking about just going "So... What do you think about homosexuality?" There would be a proper lead in and everything.

Quote:
As one of our posters who lives in Japan said, the simple fact that the REST OF THE WORLD LOVES THIS STUFF is making Joe/Jane Average Japanese reconsider a bit.
With regards to that, we have been given a general idea as to how Japanese anime fans are treated, but how would a foreign anime fan be viewed? Assuming the average tourist fan is on the streets of Japan talking loudly about, say, Fate/Stay Night and does not know about the stigma attached to anime in Japan, would they be lumped in with the rest of the "otaku" or are they just classed as ignorant?

Last edited by BASS in SPACE; 2009-06-11 at 08:11.
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Old 2009-06-11, 12:01   Link #1149
Vexx
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My *impression* is that foreign anime fans are such a confusing alien experience to the average Japanese that they just freeze like deer in headlights. It completely short-circuits them. Many still let that myth of "american=cool" bump around in their head and trying to process that "american tourist" buying up anime swag just fries the brain.
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Old 2009-06-13, 00:54   Link #1150
Claies
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I would like to massively derail the depression in this conversation with some cooking with a dog.

http://www.youtube.com/user/cookingwithdog?blend=1&ob=4

Yes, cooking with a dog. Poor thing just watches.

The woman doing the showing is very skilled. I'm willing to bet she teaches a culinary arts course somewhere and I want to take it. XD
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Old 2009-06-13, 00:59   Link #1151
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Claies View Post
I would like to massively derail the depression in this conversation with some cooking with a dog.

http://www.youtube.com/user/cookingwithdog?blend=1&ob=4

Yes, cooking with a dog. Poor thing just watches.

The woman doing the showing is very skilled. I'm willing to bet she teaches a culinary arts course somewhere and I want to take it. XD
Since it is a fish-shaped cake, why not a nekomimi cat?
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Old 2009-06-13, 01:08   Link #1152
Claies
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Since it is a fish-shaped cake, why not a nekomimi cat?
I can't do it... there's absolutely no way nor reason to get the special taiyaki-molded pan.

Try the oyakodon recipe video though. I tried it basically to the letter and it came out amazing.
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Old 2009-06-13, 01:45   Link #1153
Vexx
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I actually have a couple of taiyaki molds... they are amazingly difficult to find in the US. Even the ones I have are only for home grill use (each one only makes two at a time).
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Old 2009-06-15, 18:23   Link #1154
relentlessflame
 
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Dear all: We've decided to re-open this thread, but you will notice that most of the discussion from the last few days is now gone. Despite the emotion involved, important things were discussed, so the tangent is now preserved for historical sake in this locked thread. However, due to the high emotions involved with such a highly-sensitive issue, I don't think AnimeSuki's General Chat is the best forum for this sort of discussion, unless it were heavily moderated/controlled (i.e. not just an open debate/discussion). In any event, I think it's certainly beyond the scope of this particular "Japanese Culture" thread.

So let's continue the thread but leave those more "heavy" topics for another time, another place. If anyone has any concerns, please feel free to send myself or any of the other mods or admins a message. Thanks for your understanding, and now back to your regularly-scheduled thread.
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Old 2009-06-15, 18:30   Link #1155
Mushi
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Smile School in Japan?

Some random surfing of Youtube led me to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZwwVYoTsrI

I've noticed in watching some interview type videos with seiyuu that women often cover their mouths when they laugh or catch themselves smiling really big. I thought this might just be self-consciousness (like for not having perfect teeth or something), but this Smile School thing has me wondering if that has to do with the "don't show emotions" mentality that's mentioned in the video.

I was going to put this in the "Culture in Japan" thread, but it's temporarily locked for cool-down time on some heated discussion. Maybe move this there if/when it's opened again?
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Old 2009-06-15, 18:41   Link #1156
LeoXiao
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might just be self-consciousness (like for not having perfect teeth or something)
I think it's to look modest. To me, having your mouth wide open looks gluttonous and frankly, kinda stupid.
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Old 2009-06-15, 20:41   Link #1157
Fome
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I learned in my anthropology class that the Japanese historically believed that demons entered the body through orifices like the mouth. In particular, the whiteness of teeth acted as a beacon for wandering demons, which is why they traditionally covered their mouths while laughing. The modern perpetuation of this behavior probably doesn't have the same intention, but it's an interesting tidbit nonetheless.
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Old 2009-06-15, 20:43   Link #1158
Kudryavka
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I read somewhere that the covering mouths has been part of Japanese culture for years; it has to do with the way a woman presents herself, and proper ettiquette. Back some time ago, a woman wasn't supposed to open her mouth wide, for laughing or smiling or eating or anything, as it was seen as grotesque.
Harking back to 'Women are meant to be seen, not to be heard'.
The Smile School is probably some feminist thing to raise girls' confidence.
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Old 2009-06-15, 21:02   Link #1159
Mushi
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Originally Posted by Komari View Post
The Smile School is probably some feminist thing to raise girls' confidence.
You apparently didn't watch the video. It's something being taught in corporations. In the one class they show, it's almost all men... I think I saw one woman.

Modesty is a good point. I guess I took that for granted.

The history related to concern about demons is very interesting. With Shinto being so dominant in their beliefs, and that everything possesses a spirit, I could see how that might have an influence. Even if one didn't necessarily believe in that, the cultural conditioning from history could still have an effect.
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Old 2009-06-15, 22:47   Link #1160
Vexx
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A few hundred years ago, they would paint their teeth black to ward off those demons... Covering the mouth is a lot cheaper
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