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Old 2009-12-25, 16:50   Link #1301
Autumn Demon
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Based on this quote from the governor of Tokyo I imagine black people are treated differently depending on what country they come from.

"[Roppongi] is now virtually a foreign neighborhood. Africans — I don't mean African-Americans — who don't speak English are there doing who knows what. This is leading to new forms of crime [such as car theft]. We should be letting in people who are intelligent."
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Old 2009-12-25, 17:32   Link #1302
Mystique
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Originally Posted by SuperShominCar View Post
I have a theory (based on experience, I studied abroad) that being white in Japan is a lot like being black in an upper-class, mainly white, liberal area of the states (like where I grew up): people are respectful of you, but a bit cautious (mainly of offending you), but the fact of your race is hard to get around.

Being black in Japan is like that only moreso: your race is always an issue, but it's still rarely a negative.
As I'm slowly learning (and hearing) over 2009, is how and where my race fits into the gaijin circle of things.
Learnt fairly fast that if you're not blonde haired and blue eyed, you're kinda glanced over for most part for English convo jobs, or stuck into limited set stereotypes in the entertainment industry which the Japanese feel comfy with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Demon View Post
Based on this quote from the governor of Tokyo I imagine black people are treated differently depending on what country they come from.

"[Roppongi] is now virtually a foreign neighborhood. Africans — I don't mean African-Americans — who don't speak English are there doing who knows what. This is leading to new forms of crime [such as car theft]. We should be letting in people who are intelligent."
Black men have a longer history going on in Japan than women that's for sure.
Those born in America are doing their thing in the entertainment industry as bigger stars, beyond the variety shows on TV.
Those directly from African countries are making a name for themselves too, esp in Roppongi. Minus the Western mentality, they actually can be a pain in the ass.
Somewhat alike the Chinese who establish businesses everywhere, they're mainly into opening more and more hostess bars or clubs and will try to solicit many foreign guys to come in or Asian/ Russian/Eastern European girls to work there.
As I found out recently, for girls to make some quick ass money without having sex, the hostess bars is the place to go.

However, one thing these men (or other middle eastern men too) typically have over white foreigners who go to typically teach English, is that they will learn the language and tend to pick up fairly fast, meaning they sneak their way into the society by being able to communicate and understand.
But Roppongi is a place where after 4 years of visiting this country in and out, I only went there first time last year and have been there about 5 times only.
Doubt I'm missing much at all, if there are articles about, do check out the term "Roppongi Bubble", it'll probably be fascinating in itself

But being white does put you at the top of the gaijin social status. Blacks perhaps have higher levels than Asians, methinks Asians get a tougher time or a totally different experience, hearing some of the things from my flatmate recently. (Taiwanese girl)
I just break stereotypes (by not being American for one) and confuse/confuzzle them, it's great.
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Old 2009-12-25, 17:50   Link #1303
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I would love to hear more about being gaijin of different backgrounds in Japan. In fact I'm addicted to a few gaijin blogs for that same reason. One thing I've deduced, and this is just from reading blogs, is that Japan, for all its issues, is probably friendlier for gaijin than other countries in the region. Again, just going by what I read...
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Old 2009-12-25, 18:36   Link #1304
cheyannew
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Hmm... if Japanese are prejudice against blacks that might explain why my mother in law hated my hubby's now ex wife SO much. As in refused to speak to him after he married her, etc. His ex-wife was black.

I don't know if she took to me so well because I was white (like her hubby) or because I'm me. First time she met me, she implied to her son he should date me (despite me being engaged to someone at the time and him JUST having gotten legally separated lol). He said she hated his ex because she was black and I never grasped it, I mean she was Japanese married to a white man, so one should think (logically) there'd be no race issues.

But reading the above, I guess I was wrong
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Old 2009-12-25, 20:48   Link #1305
Guernsey
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How xenophobic are the Japanese?

Why it is easier to make movies in Japan than Hollywood?
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Old 2009-12-25, 20:55   Link #1306
Tri-ring
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
How xenophobic are the Japanese?

Why it is easier to make movies in Japan than Hollywood?
It depends on past relationship and contact with foreigners. Places like Iwakuni where they have US Military installations are more confronting than places like Tokyo.

Although the bureaucratic red tapes is a bitXh, labor union is non-existent making it much easier.
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Old 2009-12-25, 21:09   Link #1307
LynnieS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Demon View Post
Based on this quote from the governor of Tokyo I imagine black people are treated differently depending on what country they come from.

"[Roppongi] is now virtually a foreign neighborhood. Africans — I don't mean African-Americans — who don't speak English are there doing who knows what. This is leading to new forms of crime [such as car theft]. We should be letting in people who are intelligent."
The current governor of Tokyo, Shintaro Ishihara, is... controversial. He is rather conservative, and his statements can be thought of being xenophobic. I have no idea if this is just his public face or he really thinks this way, though.

Japan is still very male-dominated, and the top of the "food chain" is still the traditional Japanese male. That has started to change in some areas, but it's too early to say if it'll continue or go back yet. Women will likely still be in secondary roles for years, though; I know many young educated women personally who see being a housewife as more important than a career woman. The job is just to meet guys and/or get spending cash.

Black guys vs white guys... In Roppongi, the touts are a mix of both, and they can be good people - so long as you remember that their job is to get customers and don't hassle them while they are busy. They know a lot of good spots, but take their advice carefully. Younger women tend to like foreigners than Japanese guys also; they usually say that they are treated better, but no idea if that's true. Older folks can act like they're more xenophobic - maybe due to their WWII experiences? - but again, it depends. I know older people who are just plain grumpy to everyone.
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Old 2009-12-25, 21:36   Link #1308
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
As I'm slowly learning (and hearing) over 2009, is how and where my race fits into the gaijin circle of things.
Learnt fairly fast that if you're not blonde haired and blue eyed, you're kinda glanced over for most part for English convo jobs, or stuck into limited set stereotypes in the entertainment industry which the Japanese feel comfy with.

Black men have a longer history going on in Japan than women that's for sure.
Those born in America are doing their thing in the entertainment industry as bigger stars, beyond the variety shows on TV.
Those directly from African countries are making a name for themselves too, esp in Roppongi. Minus the Western mentality, they actually can be a pain in the ass.
Somewhat alike the Chinese who establish businesses everywhere, they're mainly into opening more and more hostess bars or clubs and will try to solicit many foreign guys to come in or Asian/ Russian/Eastern European girls to work there.
As I found out recently, for girls to make some quick ass money without having sex, the hostess bars is the place to go.

However, one thing these men (or other middle eastern men too) typically have over white foreigners who go to typically teach English, is that they will learn the language and tend to pick up fairly fast, meaning they sneak their way into the society by being able to communicate and understand.
But Roppongi is a place where after 4 years of visiting this country in and out, I only went there first time last year and have been there about 5 times only.
Doubt I'm missing much at all, if there are articles about, do check out the term "Roppongi Bubble", it'll probably be fascinating in itself

But being white does put you at the top of the gaijin social status. Blacks perhaps have higher levels than Asians, methinks Asians get a tougher time or a totally different experience, hearing some of the things from my flatmate recently. (Taiwanese girl)
I just break stereotypes (by not being American for one) and confuse/confuzzle them, it's great.
Well, if you're ethnically Chinese or Korean, and you're in Tokyo or the rural prefectures on the Pacific side of Japan, you're at the bottom. Less so in Uranihon, facing China.

Blame the ultranationists/protectors of the Emperor for that. They also tend to beat up Koreans/Chinese in the name of the Emperor...
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Old 2009-12-26, 03:03   Link #1309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon View Post
Japanese in the business industry seem to speak perfect fluent English. Wayy wayyy back I used to work part time in a souvenir store(hey it beats part timing at McD's). We had a fair share of Japanese visitors. They where either completely incapable of speaking English(we used the Universal language of hand signs) or really good. After talking to the fluent in English about the Japanese English skills. I found out that the people that came to Amsterdam for work are able to speak English fluently. They where also surprised when I told them that most Japanese are bad in English. I also recall talking to quite a few guys about football, who where pretty good in English as well.
Mirrors my experience too. I've worked with a Japanese colleague who's perfectly fluent in English, moving here after working in Japan for a large tech company. I've also corresponded with some folks professionally at Japanese companies for work, and they too were able to communicate in English (less fluent than my colleague, probably due to less "natural" exposure, but understandable nonetheless). On the other hand I helped out a young Japanese tourist couple a while back at a gas station, showing them how to operate the pump, where I also had to used sign language

Among Asian countries, aside from Singapore, it's a bit ironic that the poorer countries -- compared to Japan, China, S. Korea -- have better English speakers, particularly without much rigorous training. e.g. India, Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
Me too since at one time or the other people moved into this island 10 years ago or 100,000 years ago., what is the difference?
That's a good point, but to be fair, practically all countries have this issue of what/who's considered native vs non-native. The US is probably the only country where this is the least problematic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
My wife (sansei) plans to have t-shirts made that say "Made in America" in kanji for her visits there. Because they're absolutely going to brainlock when they ask her something in Japanese, *I* answer (the tall scary hagaijin), and she opens up with her Texas drawl.
Makes me wonder of some of thoughts first time visitors/tourists have here..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Demon View Post
Based on this quote from the governor of Tokyo I imagine black people are treated differently depending on what country they come from.

"[Roppongi] is now virtually a foreign neighborhood. Africans — I don't mean African-Americans — who don't speak English are there doing who knows what. This is leading to new forms of crime [such as car theft]. We should be letting in people who are intelligent."
He might be thinking of this (wikipedia entry for Kabukichou):
Quote:
Many of Japan’s infamous yakuza and the Chinese Triads are to be found in this area, although they may be difficult to detect by foreigners and native Japanese alike. Also, the Tokyo government has cleared the area of the Triads mostly on visa violations. The void has been filled by African criminal syndicates.[citation needed]
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Old 2009-12-26, 03:11   Link #1310
Theowne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npcomplete View Post
Among Asian countries, aside from Singapore, it's a bit ironic that the poorer countries -- compared to Japan, China, S. Korea -- have better English speakers, particularly without much rigorous training. e.g. India, Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia
Small inconsequential note, GDP per capita of China is lower than Thailand and Malaysia, and not that much greater than the other countries mentioned.
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Old 2009-12-26, 09:36   Link #1311
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Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
Small inconsequential note, GDP per capita of China is lower than Thailand and Malaysia, and not that much greater than the other countries mentioned.
Plus those other countries were either colonized by Britain or America (India, Malaya, Singapore, Philippines) or had substantial ties with America during and since the Indochina War (Vietnam, Thailand).
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Old 2009-12-26, 21:03   Link #1312
lixuelai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
How xenophobic are the Japanese?

Why it is easier to make movies in Japan than Hollywood?
They may not really like you but you won't notice it unless you live there for awhile. The Japanese is polite to anyone and everyone so it kind of masks whatever they are thinking. Generally the younger generation and the more educated are more accepting of foreigners.

Anyway Japan at least is better in terms of xenophobia than a lot of other countries. I browse some Chinese internet forums sometimes and damn I feel ashamed at some of the stuff people post... An example would be black entertainers. Japan has a couple that are fairly well established. There was this half black girl in Shanghai who was in this tv talent show and she got ripped so hard on some forums. Makes me sad at how intolerant some people are.
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Old 2009-12-26, 21:35   Link #1313
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Originally Posted by ShimatheKat View Post
Well, if you're ethnically Chinese or Korean, and you're in Tokyo or the rural prefectures on the Pacific side of Japan, you're at the bottom. Less so in Uranihon, facing China.

Blame the ultranationists/protectors of the Emperor for that. They also tend to beat up Koreans/Chinese in the name of the Emperor...
That is bit ironic as I believe that emperor is the descendant of Baekjae.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lixuelai View Post
They may not really like you but you won't notice it unless you live there for awhile. The Japanese is polite to anyone and everyone so it kind of masks whatever they are thinking. Generally the younger generation and the more educated are more accepting of foreigners.

Anyway Japan at least is better in terms of xenophobia than a lot of other countries. I browse some Chinese internet forums sometimes and damn I feel ashamed at some of the stuff people post... An example would be black entertainers. Japan has a couple that are fairly well established. There was this half black girl in Shanghai who was in this tv talent show and she got ripped so hard on some forums. Makes me sad at how intolerant some people are.
Yeah... internet forum, that is not really saying much. I could find retarded comments from any forum from any country that is racist. Hell you should be able to find them in youtube.

Anyhow what is with everyone keep saying gaijin? I thought that was type of offensive term to foreigners?
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Old 2009-12-26, 23:50   Link #1314
lixuelai
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It is saying a lot that in this day and age in Japan you got people like Jero, Crystal Kay etc getting accepted by the mainstream media and in China you got the Lou Jing situation where she regrets ever showing her face on TV. Of course there were racist posting online in Japan but it did not amount to what was posted on the couple main Chinese forums.
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Old 2009-12-27, 00:45   Link #1315
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Anyhow what is with everyone keep saying gaijin? I thought that was type of offensive term to foreigners?
Meh.... a few foreigners rant about it, but most I think don't care or wear it as a badge of sorts. The irritation arises more if the "foreigner" has been a resident for years, become a citizen, etc. But hell.... I'm still considered an "outsider" in Oregon by the native locals even though I've been here since '92.
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Old 2009-12-27, 00:59   Link #1316
ZephyrLeanne
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
That is bit ironic as I believe that emperor is the descendant of Baekjae.
Of JAPAN, that is...
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Old 2009-12-27, 03:43   Link #1317
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Meh.... a few foreigners rant about it, but most I think don't care or wear it as a badge of sorts. The irritation arises more if the "foreigner" has been a resident for years, become a citizen, etc. But hell.... I'm still considered an "outsider" in Oregon by the native locals even though I've been here since '92.
Once an outsider, always an outsider. Unless of course you do something phenomenal, then everyone's like "oh, he lives here, I talk to him every day, he was always a valued member of our community". I bet the Japanese are no different than the rest when it comes to that (of course, I can always be wrong, it's not like I know)
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Old 2009-12-27, 09:48   Link #1318
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
Once an outsider, always an outsider. Unless of course you do something phenomenal, then everyone's like "oh, he lives here, I talk to him every day, he was always a valued member of our community". I bet the Japanese are no different than the rest when it comes to that (of course, I can always be wrong, it's not like I know)
Nah, Japan are special in that 'you'll never fit in here' kinda treatement.
They'll accept you but never accept you, which I knew that fine print before I hopped on a plane here, so am happy to forever remain an oddball, no skin off my back.
I just need to continue improving my literacy in all kinds of ways as fast as possible to freak them out a little more.

And for me personally, 'gaijin' is just easier to spell and shorter than 'foreigner', hence I use the term xD
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Old 2009-12-29, 02:15   Link #1319
Mystique
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Little BBC video segment on the 'history girls' craze in Japan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8433280.stm
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Old 2009-12-29, 11:43   Link #1320
SeijiSensei
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Little BBC video segment on the 'history girls' craze in Japan.
I'm guessing that the young lady's opinion about the lack of "manly men" in modern Japan will only be strengthened by this announcement.

She probably won't be visiting one of these cafes anytime soon either.
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