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Old 2004-12-01, 10:24   Link #41
dreamless
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
well, I guess it's that we have different interpretations of Takayuki's actions, you think he's selfless in order to please everyone, but I think he's more like trying to please everyone because he fears the responsibility and burden of not pleasing someone, and because he has no will of his own and wants to stay the same way forever, which is shown by his indecision of whether going to college or moving together with Mitsuki. He simply doesn't have any will to improve and is always content with the current situation no matter how sucky it is, as long as he can linger on wasting his life away.

As for the last part, I'd say he won't be able to break up with Haruka if it's not for Haruka literally kicking him away to Mitsuki, so I don't think Mitsuki get to live with him out of his own decision, when he can't really make any decision.
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Old 2004-12-01, 11:11   Link #42
Yuiichi
Retired.
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
well, I guess it's that we have different interpretations of Takayuki's actions, you think he's selfless in order to please everyone, but I think he's more like trying to please everyone because he fears the responsibility and burden of not pleasing someone, and because he has no will of his own and wants to stay the same way forever, which is shown by his indecision of whether going to college or moving together with Mitsuki. He simply doesn't have any will to improve and is always content with the current situation no matter how sucky it is, as long as he can linger on wasting his life away.

As for the last part, I'd say he won't be able to break up with Haruka if it's not for Haruka literally kicking him away to Mitsuki, so I don't think Mitsuki get to live with him out of his own decision, when he can't really make any decision.
I don't think he fears responsibility as much as he fears the unhappyness of his friends. He wants to please everyone because he wants to please everyone, it's as simple as that.
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Old 2004-12-01, 11:50   Link #43
dreamless
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuiichi
I don't think he fears responsibility as much as he fears the unhappyness of his friends. He wants to please everyone because he wants to please everyone, it's as simple as that.
if he wants to please everyone, then there's no point in showing his hesitation of going to college or moving together with Mitsuki. Also he is very unpunctual, a common trait shown by irresponsibility.

He can do a lot of things to please others and improve his current situation, but he doesn't seek to do anything. So I don't think he's some selfless guy who wants to please everyone. He doesn't really wants to please everyone, he's just content with everything staying the same even when others are unhappy. He's not actively doing anything to make others happy. He's just not doing anything out of his own will. He's definitely not actively thinking for others' happiness.

And even when the time of decision comes, that he is forced to make a decision by circumstances and/or other people (when he's about to graduate, when Haruka confesses to him, when Mitsuki asks to live together with him, when Haruka wakes up), he's still afraid of making any decision of his own and try to linger on as much as possible.
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Old 2004-12-01, 12:47   Link #44
Yuiichi
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Originally Posted by dreamless
if he wants to please everyone, then there's no point in showing his hesitation of going to college or moving together with Mitsuki. Also he is very unpunctual, a common trait shown by irresponsibility.

He can do a lot of things to please others and improve his current situation, but he doesn't seek to do anything. So I don't think he's some selfless guy who wants to please everyone. He doesn't really wants to please everyone, he's just content with everything staying the same even when others are unhappy. He's not actively doing anything to make others happy. He's just not doing anything out of his own will. He's definitely not actively thinking for others' happiness.

And even when the time of decision comes, that he is forced to make a decision by circumstances and/or other people (when he's about to graduate, when Haruka confesses to him, when Mitsuki asks to live together with him, when Haruka wakes up), he's still afraid of making any decision of his own and try to linger on as much as possible.
Going to college was something he was not sure he could do, he needed some reinforcement from his friend, and especially Haruka. And it worked, while Haruka was alright.

As for moving in with Mitsuki, i also don't see it as unresponsability, but more of taking time to make a big life decision. Living with someone is not a choice that should be taken lightly. Major life decisions need time to think about, especially since they are major.

I also never said he was selfless. He wants to please everyone, but he is human, so he can't be perfect. The thing about him is he makes his decisions based on other people's reactions and decisions. I would say that is probably making other people happy. Even if he is doing it passively, it still does make other people happy.

You also can't deffinately say what he's thinking of. He might be thinking of other people, but just not doing anything about it.
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Old 2004-12-01, 13:09   Link #45
dreamless
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he's more like not doing anything except been pushed by others, also his actions don't make other people happy, but more like make other people unhappy.

And when he agreed to move together with Mitsuki, and Mitsuki asked him why he agreed, he could not give any reason other than "you asked it right?" that's not what I'd call taking time making big life decision. He's just content with whatever poor situation he current is in, and not think about improving it unless being pushed by others. and even then he doesn't really give it any thought.

Also he has left Haruka waiting for him for hours on a date, that's definitely what I'd call irresponsible.

If he wants to please everyone, then he'd go out doing things out of his own will to please everyone. "wanting" is an active thing, not just doing things when others kick him to do things. That's not called "wanting to please everyone". If someone "wants" to do something, that means he actively pursuits to doing such things.

And supposedly "thinking of other people but not doing anything about it" is what I'd call a useless loser, and a hypocrite who just comforts himself by thinking that he cares about everyone but in reality he doesn't really do any thing for others.
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Old 2004-12-01, 13:16   Link #46
Yuiichi
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
he's more like not doing anything except been pushed by others, also his actions don't make other people happy, but more like make other people unhappy.

And when he agreed to move together with Mitsuki, and Mitsuki asked him why he agreed, he could not give any reason other than "you asked it right?" that's not what I'd call taking time making big life decision. He's just content with whatever poor situation he current is in, and not think about improving it unless being pushed by others. and even then he doesn't really give it any thought.

Also he has left Haruka waiting for him for hours on a date, that's definitely what I'd call irresponsible.

If he wants to please everyone, then he'd go out doing things out of his own will to please everyone. "wanting" is an active thing, not just doing things when others kick him to do things. That's not called "wanting to please everyone". If someone "wants" to do something, that means he actively pursuits to doing such things.

And supposedly "thinking of other people but not doing anything about it" is what I'd call a useless loser, and a hypocrite who just comforts himself by thinking that he cares about everyone but in reality he doesn't really do any thing for others.
Hrmm... i seem to have lost this argument, since i can't think of anything to rebut with.

Good show my man, but this still doesn't change my optinion of Takayuki, i still admire his niceness.
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Old 2004-12-01, 13:32   Link #47
dreamless
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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well, so maybe what you'd call "niceness" is what I'd call "an utter hypocrite loser" maybe you want people around to act more like him but I can only hope the people around me don't act like him. Maybe we just have totally different opinions on a certain type of character personality. From what I see from all those details in the show, I just can't bear with this kind of personality.

of course I think both of us should know right from the start that we most likely won't be able to change each other's opinions, this is true for most discussions in online forums. We just express out opinions and then try to show as much evidences as possible to support our opinions, but rarely anyone changes his/her opinions

Last edited by dreamless; 2004-12-02 at 05:53.
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Old 2004-12-01, 20:41   Link #48
kujoe
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Age: 32
Takayuki as selfless? Hmmm. Even though I somewhat have a higher opinion of Takayuki than dreamless over here, I don't think I could easily call him selfless. Hell, none of them were.
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