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Old 2004-12-02, 02:14   Link #1
ctown
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Why/how Orochimaru & Itachi turn bad?

I just finished watching all 111 episodes and I have some questions about these 2 badies.

Why/How did Orochimaru turn evil? He had a good teacher(3rd) Seems to be a good and calm guy when you see him young? What made him wanting to develop those evil skills and got kick out of the village?

Why did Itachi want to kill his whole family but leave Sasuke along? There is no reason for him to kill his family. His the successor of the clan anyway/ Just pondering
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Old 2004-12-02, 02:26   Link #2
UzumakiKitsu
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You'll find out about Itachi in time. Be patient, or read the manga.

Orochimaru was sort of born with a tendency toward evil. He is so concerned with himself and his power that nothing else matters. The true mark of an evil character is personal greed even at the expense of others. Orochimaru really just wants to learn all the jutsus in existence, which isn't necessarily an evil idea, but his means to get to it are what makes him evil- since he'll sacrifice anyone and anything to get it, he's a bad, bad man.
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Old 2004-12-02, 02:29   Link #3
socomberetta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctown
I just finished watching all 111 episodes and I have some questions about these 2 badies.

Why/How did Orochimaru turn evil? He had a good teacher(3rd) Seems to be a good and calm guy when you see him young? What made him wanting to develop those evil skills and got kick out of the village?
He is obsessed with learning everything about jutsu and he didnt have it in himself to care about how hed go about it; even if it meant murdering and experimenting on his fellow ninja.

Quote:
Why did Itachi want to kill his whole family but leave Sasuke along? There is no reason for him to kill his family. His the successor of the clan anyway/ Just pondering
He wanted to test his capacity as a ninja. What better way than to fight to the death with the most feared clan in Konoha. To answer why Itachi left Sasuke alive would mean a ban for me, so I wont until you ask a moderator to add the [Manga] tag onto your thread title.
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Old 2004-12-02, 06:06   Link #4
tetra
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They're not really "bad"
They just had different priorities which were more important.
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Old 2004-12-02, 08:08   Link #5
Gon the Freec
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Well their not evil........they are just misunderstood !
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Old 2004-12-02, 08:46   Link #6
-HyugaNeji-
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Someone who kills his own family can be considered quite evil and psychopatic
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Old 2004-12-02, 09:38   Link #7
Anthriel
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Orochimaru and probably Itachi as well, are two-dimensional generic anime villains, thus, they were born evil, always were evil and will remain evil for most of the time. They don't need a reason to be evil, they most probably don't know why they are evil themselves. They are not as bad as certain FF villians ("I want to destroy the whole world! Cause ... er ... well ... I just want to do it!" *evil laugh*), but bad enough.

Actually, I think that is a problem. In comics/manga/books aimed at a younger, or a wider audience, there are often characters born evil. Even though there are most certainly people who are more likely to get antisocial than others, there is no such thing in reality as a person born evil. Hell, as long as you are objective, there isn't something as evil to begin with.
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Old 2004-12-02, 10:00   Link #8
Kayess
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Both had potential beyond their peers.. and felt as if they were being held down by their towns... thus wanted to leave.
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Old 2004-12-02, 10:03   Link #9
MysticNinjaJay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel
Orochimaru and probably Itachi as well, are two-dimensional generic anime villains, thus, they were born evil, always were evil and will remain evil for most of the time. They don't need a reason to be evil, they most probably don't know why they are evil themselves. They are not as bad as certain FF villians ("I want to destroy the whole world! Cause ... er ... well ... I just want to do it!" *evil laugh*), but bad enough.

Actually, I think that is a problem. In comics/manga/books aimed at a younger, or a wider audience, there are often characters born evil. Even though there are most certainly people who are more likely to get antisocial than others, there is no such thing in reality as a person born evil. Hell, as long as you are objective, there isn't something as evil to begin with.
Thats what the devil wants you to think . Orochimaru and Itachi are two dimensional in the sense that as long as you've known them as characters they have been evil. Characters like Freeza in DBZ seem like they were born evil and evil is their nature so they build empires with a focus on being evil. In Naruto the characters who are evil seem to fall to temptations. Orochimaru wasn't evil as a child but he was ambitious (kinda of like Naruto). There was no explanation for this ambition, just that he was and seeking power no matter the cost is what turned him to evil as an adult. The same can be said about Itachi and the anime viewers will understand what we know of him in the manga once they get to it. He too wasn't always evil if you look at it from Sasuke's point of view. Someone like Gaara his throughly explained as to why he is so twisted, so it isn't too much surprise that he becomes a good guy. Kishimoto's themes seem to be in Naruto that....

1. There is no greater pain than loneliness

2. Blind Ambition leads to a path of evil

3. We find our true strength when we have something or someone to protect

4. Anyone can be influenced by a precious mentor whether they are good or evil

All the main charcters and villians follow those similar themes.
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Old 2004-12-02, 10:11   Link #10
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I think another reason why Orochimaru became evil was because Sarutobi chose Yondaime to be the Fourth instead of him? Or am I wrong?
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Old 2004-12-02, 10:23   Link #11
M.G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel

Even though there are most certainly people who are more likely to get antisocial than others, there is no such thing in reality as a person born evil. Hell.
Many researchers believe that individuals are born with predispositions that cause them be a certain way. For example, some believe that specific genes are responsible for aggressive behaviour etc... Plus, if you factor in mental disorders like psychopathy then it isn't unreasonable to believe that a person like Orochimaru could be born that way. Of course, since it is fictional things are allowed to be exaggerated a bit.

I personally think Itachiís reasons for doing what he did were very weak. From what we have seen, he doesn't do things that are unnecessary, yet he kills his entire clan to test himself. I don't see why he would need to measure his capacity in the first place, but if he did I don't see why he would have killed them all. If he just wanted to test him self, there was no need to kill the weaker uchiha. Also, if he wanted a real test, he should have fought some one stronger... ie hokage or something. There is either something else behind it all or the author in my opinion messed up.
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Old 2004-12-02, 10:53   Link #12
Shrimpusmaximus
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Well Orochimaru seems like a cookie cutter villian in that he doesn't need a reason to be evil. Itachi is more of a calm collected and merciful villian and most likely when we finnally get to it willl have some understandable reason for being that way. As for the reason he killed his clan....

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-12-02, 10:54   Link #13
Animizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

1. There is no greater pain than loneliness

2. Blind Ambition leads to a path of evil

3. We find our true strength when we have something or someone to protect

4. Anyone can be influenced by a precious mentor whether they are good or evil

All the main charcters and villians follow those similar themes.
you should definitly add protect your loved ones to that
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Old 2004-12-02, 11:10   Link #14
Yogi
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Itachi and Orochimaru are supposed to be the opposites of Naruto. Recall that Naruto gets his strength from protecting his friends, while those two abandoned their friends to get their strength. In this manner, we see them set up as opposit archetypes due to clash in the future. Who will win this battle is, of course, a tossup.
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Old 2004-12-02, 11:32   Link #15
chhayalak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eccentric
I think another reason why Orochimaru became evil was because Sarutobi chose Yondaime to be the Fourth instead of him? Or am I wrong?

Yes this is one of the turning point to the path of evil for Orochimaru. When he becomes a missing nin is another, and that is when Sarutobi discovers his experiments.!
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Old 2004-12-02, 12:06   Link #16
Anthriel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShurikenJay
Thats what the devil wants you to think
I'm sorry, you aren't serious, right? In recent times I'm not to sure about things like that. Since the president of the USA is a religious fanatic, or at the very least a fundamentalist, I as a European have lost any faith in American intelligence regarding religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.G.
Many researchers believe that individuals are born with predispositions that cause them be a certain way. For example, some believe that specific genes are responsible for aggressive behaviour etc... Plus, if you factor in mental disorders like psychopathy then it isn't unreasonable to believe that a person like Orochimaru could be born that way.
As I said, there are without a doubt people who are more likely to break laws than others, there are people who can deal with emotional stress, and some who cannot. However, that doesn't mean they HAVE to turn into criminals. There is no one who is born "evil", as in, he will become "evil" no matter what. Upbringing is no less important than DNA.
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Last edited by Anthriel; 2004-12-02 at 16:40.
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Old 2004-12-02, 20:35   Link #17
Veritas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel
I'm sorry, you aren't serious, right? In recent times I'm not to sure about things like that. Since the president of the USA is a religious fanatic, or at the very least a fundamentalist, I as a European have lost any faith in American intelligence regarding religion.
I'm quite sure ShurikenJay was trying to be funny.


Quote:
As I said, there are without a doubt people who are more likely to break laws than others, there are people who can deal with emotional stress, and some who cannot. However, that doesn't mean they HAVE to turn into criminals. There is no one who is born "evil", as in, he will become "evil" no matter what. Upbringing is no less important than DNA.
I believe that there are certainly people who are born evil. But, as you say, they have a choice to actually act on their impulses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animizzle
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

1. There is no greater pain than loneliness

2. Blind Ambition leads to a path of evil

3. We find our true strength when we have something or someone to protect

4. Anyone can be influenced by a precious mentor whether they are good or evil

All the main charcters and villians follow those similar themes.

you should definitly add protect your loved ones to that
Did you not read #3?
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Old 2004-12-02, 21:41   Link #18
ctown
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this is just a guess but maybe Sarutobi chose Yondaime to be the Fourth instead of Orochimaru because Orochimaru was doing some evil tech already and what lead him to do all this was that he was jealous of Yondaime natural talent from youth to adult. When people are bitter they tend to turn to evilness.

Itachi kill his whole family because he know something important that might endanger Konoha. Maybe he didn't want anyone taking control of anyone in his clan with the eye thingy skills so he kill off everyone but love Sasuke so much he leave him alive and try to hurt him to make him stronger(bad guess)

I'm sure every charactor in this anime is much deeper than charactors like Freezer & Cell in DBZl since they trace almost every charactor back to their past
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Old 2004-12-02, 21:49   Link #19
Zek
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Sarutobi always saw Oro's evil ambitions, he just pretended not to notice because he had great hopes for his potential. He eventually thought better of it though and chose the Fourth over him, but I guess Oro was pretty dead set on leading a ninja village so he started his own. I think betraying Konoha was just an extension of the twisted ideals he had always followed. It doesn't seem that he had any alterior motives at the time, unlike, say, Sasuke.

As for Itachi...

Spoiler for Manga:
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Old 2004-12-02, 22:33   Link #20
MysticNinjaJay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel
I'm sorry, you aren't serious, right? In recent times I'm not to sure about things like that. Since the president of the USA is a religious fanatic, or at the very least a fundamentalist, I as a European have lost any faith in American intelligence regarding religion.
Well like Veritas said I was mostly kidding. Although it is a common theme that those who commit wanton acts of evil deny that evil actually exists in the first place and that its merely a concept they no longer acknowledge (just a theme not saying those who deny evil exists are evil themselves). If evil does not exist then morals don't exist either, in which case we would not have law to uphold society's morals. I do think one's enviroment can influence some to commit wrongful acts or be raised to be hateful but ultimately when you become an adult you have the intelligence to rebuke evil temptations or embrace them. Not every crime can be blamed on a mental illness, though you can be found quilty of a crime and really have an illness, or commit a crime and wrongly blame it on an illness.

As far as the President of the USA is concerned just remember that nearly half of America (myself included) did not vote for Bush and don't aswell as likely never wanted him as President. We have to suffer along with the rest of the World for how the other half of the country voted, but ,mark my words, there will be reform! I don't know how you can lose faith in an entire countries "intelligence" regarding religion just because the current leader is a fanatic. There have certainly been some bad ones in European history, both officially religous and some who weren't religious at all. I certainly question some people's values over why they elected this guy president again when there are so many more important things at stake than his relgious beliefs but ohwell, its a democracy.


As far as Naruto's characters go I hope they do give us more explanation into the villain's characters as simply being evil because they are strong or ambitious isn't good enough. Maybe we'll have a Gaiden in which Jiraiya is the main chacter and learn more about his relationship with Orochimaru and Tsunade before things turned ugly. That would be an interesting mini arc right before a big battle between Jiraiya and Orochimaru (I'm sure they will have another one).
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