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Old 2004-12-02, 10:30   Link #1
Genei Killua
Mashou no Tenshi
 
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[Manga] Chapter 241 Discussion

In this newest chapter, Yondaime leaves the team within the first few pages presumably to do his mission. Obito, Kakashi, and Rin therefore proceed to finish theirs.

As they cross a small lake, two enemy nins spy them. Kakashi notices that they are not alone, and halts the team. What looks like bamboo shoots fly towards them from above, and Obito flashes out a katon no jutsu and reduces them to char. One of the ninjas materializes slowly behind Rin, while another attacks Kakashi and Obito head on. The head-on attack turned out to be a distraction, for as Kakashi and Obito look behind, they see Rin unconscious in one of the ninjas arms.

The nin then disappear, and Obito starts to run after them. Kakashi tells him to stop, and they get into an argument ( I believe) about whether they should save their comrade or complete their mission.

The argument gets rather heated, and Obito socks Kakashi right in the kisser. They keep yelling at each other for several pages. And then it gets more silent, as Obito looks sort of amazed at Kakashi (presumably that he doesn't care or sommat) and I believe Kakashi's father is mentioned, as we get to see a picture of him from the back. Kakashi starts to look sad and self-pondering.

Obito speaks some more, and says something that gets both of Kakashi's eyes wide open and a few exclaimation marks. Obito then turns his back on Kakashi and heads off alone (I think.)
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Old 2004-12-02, 10:41   Link #2
tramadrama
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Sounds like they took Obito's b****. It's on now!!! Sharingan AWAKEN! Man if I weren't such a good member and tried to follow all the rules (after reading them) I'd ask where'd you get that raw from but that is so freaking wrong on so many levels. But, alas, someone will do it anyway...they always do...
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Old 2004-12-02, 11:38   Link #3
AkatsukisApprentice
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Originally Posted by tramadrama
Sounds like they took Obito's b****. It's on now!!! Sharingan AWAKEN! Man if I weren't such a good member and tried to follow all the rules (after reading them) I'd ask where'd you get that raw from but that is so freaking wrong on so many levels. But, alas, someone will do it anyway...they always do...
Yeah even Mr.Google failed to help me out this time I guess I have to wait for the translated version.
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Old 2004-12-02, 11:42   Link #4
AnimeFangirl
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Very straightforward chapter for all the talking. It's just Kakashi and Obito arguing back and forth and back and forth over whether to save Rin or not. Kakashi of course refuses and in the end Obito says he's going to save Rin by himself, because he thinks "White Fang" was a true hero. And then Obito is the one who uses the lines that those who disobey the rules are trash, but those that don't take care of their comrades are even worse trash. Since he's going to be trash anyway, he's going to break the rules. If that's what it means to be a shinobi, then he will it smash up (that concept of a ninja). Not a bad chapter, but...I need more Yondaime ;___;
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Old 2004-12-02, 11:48   Link #5
wb_hicks
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from the sounds of this it seem like a good chapter. obito seems like a different person this chpter then in last.
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Old 2004-12-02, 11:49   Link #6
Struggler
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*sigh* why are the girls in Naruto so useless?

It's annoying.
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Old 2004-12-02, 11:58   Link #7
AnimeFangirl
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I was thinking the same thing. It's going to be sad if Rin's only claim to fame is healing her team's wounds and getting kidnapped. At the very least she should be brainwashed by the rock nin and attack her friends, that would be make her a little more memorable. Plus then we'd get to see her fight. ...@__@ Maybe they'll even have to kill her. Okay, I'm getting carried away.
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Old 2004-12-02, 12:12   Link #8
Anthriel
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lol, after all, Rin is like most other female characters in Naruto, her only use is to get endangered, to get the male characters angry.
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Old 2004-12-02, 12:45   Link #9
Srin Tuar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Struggler
*sigh* why are the girls in Naruto so useless?
They are not useless at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Struggler
It's annoying.
Or realistic.
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Old 2004-12-02, 12:58   Link #10
Kayess
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Originally Posted by Struggler
*sigh* why are the girls in Naruto so useless?

It's annoying.

Girls are FAR from useless.. if there were no girls in the Naruto world... there would be no guys either.. I take it you forgot that humans need both a female and male to procreate...

Ugh.. the ignorance of children these days..
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Old 2004-12-02, 13:02   Link #11
Genei Killua
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Still, almost all of the female ninjas are useless, with the two exceptions of Tsunade and Temari. Incidentally, my mom doesn't let my sister watch Naruto because she thinks it's sexist, how the girls always revolve around a guy (*cough* Sakura *cough*) and then get beat up and can't defend themselves at all. I sorta agree. The main function of the female in Naruto is to obsess about the guys, and then get kidnapped and/or saved. Additionally, they'll go into a supporting (read:healing) role--incidentally, the very strongest woman in the Naruto-verse is the epitome of the supporting and healing role.
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Old 2004-12-02, 13:15   Link #12
Last of the Uchiha
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This was originally posted by hisshouburaiken.




Chapter 241 Translation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This will likely be redone a bit after a good quality, non jojohot version comes out. Actually, I'd appreciate it if someone'd PM me when that does happen.

Page 1: Gaiden Part 3: A true hero!
Sidebar: Dreaming of a tomorrow where I'm a true hero...the boy who has inherited the Uchiha name aims for the battlefield!

Page 2:
Sidebar: Obito comes to understand the sadness the Kakashi carries...a brief night of rest turns to day.

Rin: Looks like it's gotten better, but it'll reopen if you overexert yourself. (unsure, cut off)
Kakashi: Got it.

Page 3:
The 4th: Time to get going.
All: Yes!

The 4th: This is where we split up. Good luck, everyone!
From here on out, we're in enemy territory (unsure). This is now a battle of teamwork. Be careful.

Page 4:
Obito: Let's go, Captain.
The 4th: Ok, I'm going!
All: Yes!
All: Scatter!

Page 5:
Nothin'.

Page 6:
Ugly stone nin: Mahiru still hasn't returned from scouting...but there's no way he was beaten by those brats...
Uglier stone-nin: Well, let's have a listen.

Page 7:
Obito: Katon: Goukakyuu no jutsu! (Fire element, Blazing fireball!)

Page 8:
!!!!!!!!!!

Page 9:
Rin: Gyaaaaah!

Page 10:
Uglier Stone-nin: We'll be taking her.
Obito: Kuh!
Kakashi: Wait!

Page 11:
Obito: Damnit!
Kakashi: Obito! Don't go after them!
Obito: What!? What are you talking about!? Do you realize what you're saying?!
Kakashi: Yes...

Page 12:
Kakashi: The two of us will carry out the mission ourselves.
Obito: Rin...What about Rin!!
Kakashi: We'll worry about her later. The enemy needs to know our plans, so they won't kill her right away. Luckily, she's a medic-nin, (illegible), they can use her to heal their allies injuries and whatnot. Moreover, (can't make out enough of the rest to translate)
Obito: (also really illegible, but he's obviously more concerned about Rin)

Page 13:
Obito: Saving Rin takes priority over this mission!
Kakashi: A shinobi must complete the mission, even if it means sacrificing comrades. This is a "law." If we fail this mission, the war will drag on...possibly resulting in many more sacrifices.
Obito: That's just an assumption! You're saying that you'd simply throw away a comrade who's been at your side this whole time? When we suffered injuries, Rin always saved our lives with her medical jutsu! If she wasn't around, you and I might both be dead right now!
Kakashi: That...was Rin's mission.

Page 14:
Obito: I hate you!
Kakashi: I don't care whether or not you hate me. I'm the captain. (illegible)
Whatever situation arises, even if we're separated, there's only one person in charge. Those under the captain have to follow his orders. (can't read the bottom, it's cut off)
Obito: Then why won't you save Rin? You're the only one with the power to do so!

Page 15:
Kakashi: As soon as you let your emotions cause you to fail a mission, you're done for. This is why we shinobi must destroy our emotions. You know that.
Obito: Rin...Rin took care of your body and gave you that medical pack as a present...you should repay the favor and protect her!
Kakashi: She gave me the pack and used her medical jutsu for the sake of completing the mission. That idea is what makes it a wonderful system. Yesterday, you said it yourself: "All this is is excess baggage.".

Page 16:
Kakashi: Shinobi are tools to be used for completing missions... Emotions are just excess baggage.
Obito: Do you really mean that...? Do you really think that!?

Page 17:
Kakashi: ...Yes. I do...

Page 18:
Obito: Fine...you and I are like oil and water! I'm going to save Rin!
Kakashi: You don't understand anything! Do you know what happens to those who break the rules?
Obito: I understand that "The White Fang" was a true hero!

Page 19:
Obito: It's true that in the world of the shinobi, those who break the rules are called trash, but...

(wait for it!)

Those who don't take care of their friends, are lower than trash!

Call me trash if you want. I'm breaking the rules! And if I'm not being a true shinobi, then I'll completely crush what the idea of a shinobi is! (this is said in the same way Naruto speaks)

END
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Old 2004-12-02, 13:29   Link #13
wb_hicks
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damn that was tight. im liking obito more and more. i guess saving rin and completing the mission is whats going to awaken his sharingan. even tho i believe he isnt going to die for a few yrs from now i wonder if he is one of the few to ever abtain the mangekyou sharingan.

this also got me thinking even tho this is kakashis flash back we seem to get more info about the uchiha clan and the sharingan aswell.
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Old 2004-12-02, 13:53   Link #14
Anthriel
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Looks like old Kakashi was an Utilitarist. It's wrong to save your comrade if you sacrifice many other lives to do so. I like him better than current Kakashi.
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Old 2004-12-02, 14:14   Link #15
jubileerain
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OMG Kakashi you dirty little :beep:. I dunno what to think. His face looked so sad when Obito asked him if he really thought that way. It doesn't seem like he really believes that Shinobi are just tools. I understand why he's the way he is, 'cuz of what happened to his dad, but still, Kakashi you idiot!!!!!!!!

Obito truly reminds me of Naruto. He's so innocent & genuine! ::cries:: I guess when Naruto yelled at Zabuza about Haku, it must've brought back painful memories for Kakashi. I really hope Obito doesn't get the Sharingan & then bites the dust. It's too soon! I wanna see more of the Gaiden! I love it!
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Old 2004-12-02, 14:44   Link #16
tramadrama
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Man these chapters are very detailed, IMO. I was under the impression that Obito would die later on like when he gets older and has two tears in his sharingan and so forth. But, the way that Kakashi visits Obito grave on the daily, it would make me think that he never got to properly thank Obito for waking him up to have the current ideas and beliefs that he has now.

That would also mean that Obito's sharingan just may come very developed in a short amount of time. I know there was speculation about if this being possible or not, but if it doesnt happen, then, like someone said before, then Kakashi is the one training the eye to get the tears and so forth that they are developing. Now that I think about it, I guess it isn't so farfetched to believe that Kakashi's sharingan can evolve. I mean, since he can acutally use it the way that he can, then I guess it can really happen.

Edit: It's hard to picture today's Konoha to have been so hard on kakashi's father so hard that he commits suicide. That's why I think that we are very close to Obito's death and his death will change Konoha along with the induction of the fourth.
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Old 2004-12-02, 14:50   Link #17
MysticNinjaJay
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That was... just...excellent. You truly begin to understand Kakashi's character and what he's gone through. I love it, I hope current charcters in the series truly grow the way he has. Obito is like an Uchiha Naruto, he had the same emotions and creed before it was popular to proclaim your own way of the ninja. I can see how he shapes up to be Kakashi's best friend. He's the reason Kakashi changed his values so much and eventually allowed himself to feel how he truly felt. You could tell he didn't really believe what he was saying about obeying the rules, he just didn't want to be a disgrace the way he thought his father was. Obito told him the truth and really opened his eyes. Great chapter!
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Old 2004-12-02, 14:55   Link #18
jubileerain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genei Killua
Still, almost all of the female ninjas are useless, with the two exceptions of Tsunade and Temari. Incidentally, my mom doesn't let my sister watch Naruto because she thinks it's sexist, how the girls always revolve around a guy (*cough* Sakura *cough*) and then get beat up and can't defend themselves at all. I sorta agree. The main function of the female in Naruto is to obsess about the guys, and then get kidnapped and/or saved. Additionally, they'll go into a supporting (read:healing) role--incidentally, the very strongest woman in the Naruto-verse is the epitome of the supporting and healing role.

Yeah it does suck how a lot of the female characters are weak. Thank goodness Shizune, Tsunade & Temari kick ass. I know a series needs diversity, but it'd be better if more of the female characters were strong.

Hinata has a subdued personality, but at least she tries.

& I wonder if we'll ever get to see Ayame, the Ramen girl in action. . . LOL

Edit: Rin's not useless, she seems to be a pretty good medical nin. I think in general medical nin aren't very good at combat. Learning medical stuff is hard enough!
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Old 2004-12-02, 14:56   Link #19
Kurapica
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This chapter made me see yet again why this manga is so average. I mean come on, how simple is it to always make the girl the worst of the gang. She didn't even do anything impressive.
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Old 2004-12-02, 15:04   Link #20
MysticNinjaJay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurapica
This chapter made me see yet again why this manga is so average. I mean come on, how simple is it to always make the girl the worst of the gang. She didn't even do anything impressive.
Well she IS a medical ninja but I do think Kishimoto could have put some stronger female characters in the show, its almost sexist that practically every girl in Naruto is so submissive. As if he saying that kunoichi are only fit to have school girl crushes and be healers ala videogame RPG characters. We simply don't see enough of Temari and none of the other female Genin come close to being strong ninjas on par with their male counterparts.
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