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Old 2004-12-03, 11:25   Link #81
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
The latest anime episode proves that false.

Both Kiba and Chouji have strong Taijutu. Kiba is faster, and can get in more hits: he would probably beat chouji in a one vs one taijutu fight.

But against that earth-dome-barrier jutu Chouji's taijutu could break free but Kiba's could not.

So there is no "strongest", there are various styles. I mean have you even considered the Neji/Lee rivalry: konoha taijutu + the 8 gates vs the feared hyuugaryuu style? Would you say one is outright stronger than the other? I dont think so.
No that's exactly what I said.
You talk of overall strength.
Kiba is faster than Chouji while Chouji can have the most destructive raw power of them all (minus Naruto).
Who would win can't change that as Gai is faster than Kakashi even if that doesn't mean that he would win.
Tsunade is physically the strongest human of the show, you can imagine a blow with less strength doing better than pure raw power in a given situation but that also can't change the fact that she's the strongest in this field.
As the the Amaterasu is the strongest fire jutsu that we know, as Naruto has the most important amount of chakra etc.

There are plenty of people who are the strongest (so far) in a particular field, that just doesn't mean that this strength is the most useful one in a given particular situation or that their overall strength can be compared to the field where they're the strongest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hokagenaruto3
I don't know, it's a far fetch, but I read in a source about the legendary Demon Fox that it was a master in magic (jutsu), could posess people, and was also a master in illusions (genjutsu).
Hunter should know.
If Kishimoto lives up to the legend, he's also going to give Naruto some exclusive genjutsu.
Yes but if Kishimoto lived up to the legend there would be no question about female's strength because the hero would be a girl and the manga called Naruko
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Old 2004-12-03, 11:50   Link #82
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In Reply to people saying naruto is sexist because women are shown as weak, I think your theories dont grasp the situation, you think just because a persom doesnt win a fight they are weak. The truth is in our world, not many women would win a direct conflict with a man. that doesnt mean they wouldnt win a War or do other things. Why is it that you measure these women s skills solely in whether they can win a fight? thats like saying a woman is weak cause a man beat her in hand to hand combat. who is a greaterman a doctor or boxer? its pretty relative really. Also comparing anko to orochimaru is foolish, orochimaru taught her all her skills, and is a legendaru ninja. saying ten ten is weak ehhh, only person we saw beat tenten is temari who never lost a match. Comparing the jounin chick, firstly she didnt know she was going up against itachi, they were just investigating some people, and even if she did, doesnt really matter, you gotta play your strengths. also neither asuma or kakashi had a chance against this guy so her losing doesnt mean much. As far as your tsunande is strongest and shes a vain women concerned with her looks, what does power and skill have to do with your personality traits? How many rich and powerful people spend much time and money improving or maintaining their looks? You want charachters with no flaws? thats fine read superman. Each of charachters in naruto have their flaws and quirks or whatever. Also if you think being a master of healing arts means you are weak, then you have a bias yourself
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Old 2004-12-03, 12:02   Link #83
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Genei Killia, I do get your point. I really do.

But overall I think Naruto is doing a pretty good job in involving woman.

It doesn't need repeating that Anime is mostly watched by males, and hence most of the characters tend to be male. I won't elaborate on this since it's been discussed to death, and quite frankly I don't give a shit.

Still, it's the very reason Naruto is like this. It's a easy way out I know, but comparing it to other shounen, Like Dragonball Z, Hajime No ippo and Hikaru No go, female strenght and involvement in Naruto is considerably larger.
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Old 2004-12-03, 12:23   Link #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfl
"Enemies appear in front of Obito, who is heading to save Rin!? Next time, 'Dilemma!'"
Thanks a lot.
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Old 2004-12-03, 12:29   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strategos
Chouji has more attack power but he is slower. Kiba has more speed in attacks but his attacks are less strong. The same when you play an online game, You can select a weapon that is faster but does less atk dmg or a weapon that does more dmg but is slower.

I have to say that with weapons that might be the case, because it would be harder to swing a heavier weapon but in hand to hand combat speed=power
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Old 2004-12-03, 13:01   Link #86
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Just read the chapter. Sigh.... another girl who's just a weak link. i guess if you ain't blonde with boobs in naruto, you aren't useful. After that, Pretty good chapter.
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Old 2004-12-03, 13:36   Link #87
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Seriously, it's tough to find female shinobi who don't end up being the weak link. I'm not trying to be sexist or anything, but it's just the truth. I'd have to say that Temari, Shizune, and Tsunade are the only ones who haven't ended up being the deciding weak link in a group. Pretty decent chapter in any case though.
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Old 2004-12-03, 15:15   Link #88
FearTheMullet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
Theres no such thing a "precise" control when working with that quantity of raw chakura, imo. It merely requires the strength of control to contain it until it becomes critical mass. And as the latest anime episode demonstrates, naruto can only barely do it. Even the slight distraction caused by the chakura drain was enough to prevent him from using his favorite jutu.

I wouldnt want naruto doing scalpel-jutu surgery on any character I cared about. scary.

Yes, just that slight chakra drain proves my point, it is NOT a mass power, but a precise control jutsu. Jirayia even says the move relies on controling the chakkra effectivley to make it swril and initiate the attack.
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Old 2004-12-03, 15:19   Link #89
Srin Tuar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FearTheMullet
Yes, just that slight chakra drain proves my point, it is NOT a mass power, but a precise control jutsu. Jirayia even says the move relies on controling the chakkra effectivley to make it swril and initiate the attack.
I would say it unproves your point. I think that there is nothing precise about the type of control it requires at all. In requires strength of control, imo.
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Old 2004-12-03, 15:28   Link #90
FearTheMullet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
I would say it unproves your point. I think that there is nothing precise about the type of control it requires at all. In requires strength of control, imo.
No. Jirayia says its a move based on control. It needs alot of chakkra to be destructive, but getting the move to work correctly is about controling the chakkra. Strength of control, still makes it a control move. Plus it doesn't matter what you think, it was stated in the story its a move which requiers the user to control and focus large ammounts of chakkra to one single, central point. That's why it spins. Chidori is a move thats all about raw power. You send all your chakkra into your palm, and you hear/see it escaping. In rasengan you send it to a certain point in your palm and focus it there to spin. It's a control move.
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Old 2004-12-03, 15:31   Link #91
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I agree with Srin. I think there is a trick to controlling chakra like the Rasengan requires, but it's not the same as having perfect chakra control like Sakura. The second step makes it obvious that the Rasengan requires a lot of power. It requires the ability to handle that much powerful chakra, but not so much the ability to expend just the right amount of chakra.
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Old 2004-12-03, 18:24   Link #92
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i suppose rin doesn't kick ass as tsunade, but she is still important. i guess the whole thing obito says about how she healed them when they got hurt on missions, didn't make an impression.

if one of them is injured on a mission, and if she wasn't present they could have easily been killed. its her duty(something kakashi says), she is not useless, just because she got captured. its now their turn to return the favor for all the time she healed them. its sad she is not recognized for her effort, she's way better than sakura ever was.
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Old 2004-12-04, 09:59   Link #93
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Uzumaki Naruto is Konoha's Golden Fox! Anyway the only sad thing is that Obito is gonna die either way.

Great chapter still, i wouldnt mind some more action and the whole scenario was so obvious. Anyway..
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Old 2004-12-04, 10:28   Link #94
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It sickens me how sexist most of you are. Who cares if the most powerful fighter is a boy or a girl.. or how girls are shown to be inferior in terms of strength... Boy or girl, they are still fucking people (in an anime world ) For the love of all that is good and true, are you guys morons?! Look at our OWN world... the female body is not made as naturally strong as males. Furthermore, they have to try even harder to get to the same strength as males. It is all because of the biological make-up of the female body in contrast to the male.

Naruto is a series where almost everyone is trying their BEST to become the BEST they can. Assume that everyone trains the same amount, the females will STILL be weaker by comparason because of just nature. Yes, there are some females who break the trend, but that is just randomness... like how some girls in real life are naturally stronger than the average guy.

Furthermore, one of the things that drive the males so hard to become better is this petty sense of competition between eachother.... the feeling that they need to become stronger than everyone else to be acknowledged.

None of the girls in the series have demonstrated that... To them, they train to become stronger because they want to help out more.

Seriously, think about it. None of the girls had a passion as to why they need to become super strong... until Sakura. And what have we seen with her? In 3 short months, she is well on her way to becoming a med-nin and is said to have potential comparable to Shizune..
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Old 2004-12-04, 12:03   Link #95
Animizzle
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You call us morons Kayess, but aren't you the one comparing a ninja world with the real world?

It's a simple fact girls have the weaker role most of the time in anime/manga.
And that's about it really. Why that is is beside the point. It's just like that.

But by all means, do continue being "sickened" by this thread of horrible sexists.
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Old 2004-12-04, 12:08   Link #96
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I thought Kishimoto went out of his way in this chapter to highlight the importance of Rin to the team, not only did you get Obito's diatribe about how many times she saved their life before but the mission completely ground to a halt the moment she was gone. The same could be said for any other member.

What I find ironic is that Rin gets captured and people jump on the "the show's sexist" bandwagon, yet have you ever considered that it could be the villains in this chapter that are sexist?

Considering they're most likely Jounin then In a suprise sneak attack like that they probably could have snatched anyone in that team (Kaki is injured so isn't at his best) but they went for Rin. IMO for two possible reasons:

1. They may have wanted a medic-nin, for obvious reasons.
2. They wanted to take an hostage to use as bait and to interrogate and chose who they percieved to be the easy target or easiesy to break - the woman.
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Old 2004-12-04, 12:15   Link #97
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Just because in the real world a woman's body is not as physically strong as a man's does not mean that every other female character in an anime has to follow that stereotype. It isn't even about physical strength its about women being portrayed as submisssive and less skillful than their male counterparts. Its nice to see charcters like Ten Ten and Temari who are actually respectable ninja, but the difference between a character like Hinata and a character like Rin is that Hinata is weak because she is shy and insecure, Rin is clarealy weak because she is a girl and that gets annoying. Its sexist of the creators to portray so many women this way not for the fans to point out their existence. Not every girl has to be an amazon, but its a clear trend when every other girl is significantly weaker than than her male counterparts more than just physically. The jounins women in the series seem to have matured and are just as skillful as the men. It would not have been a stretch for Kishimoto to make Rin skillful at healing AND a decent warrior, even if she still ends up getting kidnapped. Its not the damsel in distress image that is tiring to see it the worthless damsel thats supposed to be a warrior in distress thats gottten old. Maybe Kishimoto took Kakashi's saying to heart that genin Sakura's age really are more concerned with crushes on boys than becoming skillful ninja when he created them.
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Old 2004-12-04, 12:33   Link #98
hiko
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The team was ambushed by two older, most certainly more experienced Ninja (I'm assuming they're Jounins). Alsothe Stone-nin's fellow team member pretty much owned Kakashi and Obito in the chapter before. If it wasn't for Yondaime they both would be dead meat, does this mean Kakashi and Obito are useless as well then?

so 1 on 3 = Without Yondaime, the 2 boys would probably be dead in last chapter.
2 on 3 = Female get's kidnapped Oh my god! Rin's so fucking useless, it's another weak ass female character

Also bear in mind that they're in the stone nin's territory. They know the terrain so like i said before, they probably could have taken or killed anyone in that group.
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Old 2004-12-04, 12:57   Link #99
Kayess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShurikenJay
Just because in the real world a woman's body is not as physically strong as a man's does not mean that every other female character in an anime has to follow that stereotype. It isn't even about physical strength its about women being portrayed as submisssive and less skillful than their male counterparts. Its nice to see charcters like Ten Ten and Temari who are actually respectable ninja, but the difference between a character like Hinata and a character like Rin is that Hinata is weak because she is shy and insecure, Rin is clarealy weak because she is a girl and that gets annoying. Its sexist of the creators to portray so many women this way not for the fans to point out their existence. Not every girl has to be an amazon, but its a clear trend when every other girl is significantly weaker than than her male counterparts more than just physically. The jounins women in the series seem to have matured and are just as skillful as the men. It would not have been a stretch for Kishimoto to make Rin skillful at healing AND a decent warrior, even if she still ends up getting kidnapped. Its not the damsel in distress image that is tiring to see it the worthless damsel thats supposed to be a warrior in distress thats gottten old. Maybe Kishimoto took Kakashi's saying to heart that genin Sakura's age really are more concerned with crushes on boys than becoming skillful ninja when he created them.

First of all... where is shown she is weak at all? Just because she is captured by people stronger than her... when her OWN team could do NOTHING to save her that moment? That only says the team is WEAK.. not her. If Kakashi or Obito was stronger than these enemies, they should have saw them coming.. or at least be able to stop them from getting rin.

As for her being picked... perhaps they were monitoring them.. and noticed that she is a mednin? Perhaps these enemy ninjas have a brain and know that they can either weaken the team significantly by taking away their mednin... or capture the rest of the team if kakashi's team decides to rescue her?

The fact remains.. the only two weak girls in the series are Sakura (pre-training with Godaime) and Ino... Hinata is strong.. and is working to become strong.. Temari/ Ten Ten are both strong/skilled. Tsunade is a freaking Hokage.... Kurenai was able to one up one of the mist swordsman (she would have arguably defeated him with her jutsu if it had not been for itachi), who later was beating Asuma... Hinata's little sister is said to be a genius of her clan.. and at her age of 8 already well surpasses Hinata..
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Old 2004-12-04, 13:47   Link #100
MysticNinjaJay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayess
First of all... where is shown she is weak at all? Just because she is captured by people stronger than her... when her OWN team could do NOTHING to save her that moment? That only says the team is WEAK.. not her. If Kakashi or Obito was stronger than these enemies, they should have saw them coming.. or at least be able to stop them from getting rin.

As for her being picked... perhaps they were monitoring them.. and noticed that she is a mednin? Perhaps these enemy ninjas have a brain and know that they can either weaken the team significantly by taking away their mednin... or capture the rest of the team if kakashi's team decides to rescue her?

The fact remains.. the only two weak girls in the series are Sakura (pre-training with Godaime) and Ino... Hinata is strong.. and is working to become strong.. Temari/ Ten Ten are both strong/skilled. Tsunade is a freaking Hokage.... Kurenai was able to one up one of the mist swordsman (she would have arguably defeated him with her jutsu if it had not been for itachi), who later was beating Asuma... Hinata's little sister is said to be a genius of her clan.. and at her age of 8 already well surpasses Hinata..
I don't know that Hanabi is considered a genius she is considered more skilled than Hinata. Everyone here talking about the sexism in anime are for th most part talking about girl's being prtrayed as weak or usesless in a warrior type situation. I'm not saying its illogical for Roin to be kidnapped I'm just saying its another example of a girl who can't defend herself. She doesn't have to defend herself successfully but atleast Kakashi and Obito did SOMETHING. SHe was just taking away and screaming like a helpless little girl. As far as all the strong female jounin I already mentioned that the genin are the ones who carry the stereotype, it isn't really there in the Jounin ninja. We haven't seen much of the female Genin in action anyway, I'm just saying that it would be nice to see more take charge type of girls like Temari, even if they are the weak link.
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