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Old 2004-12-07, 12:01   Link #21
VMLM3
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There's a few things to keep in mind here. First off, it's important to remember that we can't really compare the speeds of different characters until we've seen them in direct confrontation, since what we see is relative speeds (example: Gaara vs Sasuke, as in Gaara vs Lee Gaara could barely see Sasuke move due to his high speeds, but in Lee vs Sasuke it's the other way around because Lee is still much faster than Sasuke at that point in time).
Also, about Gaara killing his caretaker, I'm going to assume that the woman was a a chuunin, because quite frankly I don't think the Sand Shield is effective against any Jounin. Why wouldn't it be effective? Because Jounins are the best of the best, more than once we've seen indications that Jounin isn't only, like Chuunin, a distinction of rank, but also a measure of power. One indication of how fast jounin might be is the prelims for the Chuunin final. Off all the present jounin only Kurenai was completely amazed by Lee's speed, and she's a genjutsu specialist, which more than certainly means she isn't that fast. But remember that after that happened all the Jounin where later forced to move as fast as possible to prevent something from happening (can't remember and I don't have the episode with me atm). It took them all a split second to move form wherever they where, all of them, Kurenai included. Another more recent example (which is important because the characters have grown a lot since the chuunin exam), might be the fight between the sound four and the two jounin. The sound four are shown as being very powerful, but they also give us an indication of just how powerful when they meet up with the two tired out jounins. They barely get out, after having to fight at full strength 2v4. The important thing here is the way they regarded the Jounin, these weren't famous or excellent jounin (Like Kakashi or Gai, who seem to be amongst the stronger jounin in the village), these where normal Konoha Jounin, but the Sound four knew right off the bat that they'd need all their strength to survive against them. Supposing these two weren't complete weaklings we can start to get an idea of just how strong your average Jounin is, we can almost assume that two well rested Jounins can take on the sound four while using their level 2 curse seals. We still don't know just how strong that is since we haven't seen the sound four fight anyone yet, but considering that they have some of the best Konoha Genin running after them (and the obvious face off that's going to occur when they meet up) I'm going to assume that the four of them combined are atleast as strong as Naruto, Neji, Shikamaru, Kiba and Chouji combined. So if you look at it that way, if two jounin can take on Naruto, Neji, Shikamaru, Kiba and Chouji then they're pretty strong if you ask me.
hmm.. that example might have gotten a bit too long there.. sorry, it's been a long time since I posted and I'm a bit out of practice.
So, back to Gaara. Independantly of whether Gaara can take on a Jounin or not (I think he might, because even without the sand shield he does have some amazing sand jutsus, not to mention Shukaku.) his sand shield is probably not fast enough to stop a direct taijutsu attack from a Jounin. Other types of jutsus and thrown objects are a different matter, since Jutsus in general don't seem to be as fast as ninjas and thrown object aren't all that fast in this anime for some reason. I don't know if Gaara's shield can be broken through sheer force, since it seems to be pretty resistent to any amount of shock, and a prolonged attack (like Chouji's meat tank) would open the opponent to other sand attacks, like those nasty spikes Gaara used on Sasuke way back.
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Old 2004-12-07, 12:34   Link #22
Ponko
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Gaara's caretaker was not a woman, it was his uncle Yashamaru. He could have been only Chuunin, but what about all the assassins after Yashimaru? His dad must have moved on to hiring Jounin after his Chuunin failed. Some of them should be as fast as Lee or Sasuke. I know a lot of people do not like to use the character book because there are inconsistancies, but Baki is a Jounin, and he is faster and stronger than Lee and Sasuke. Why not hire him to kill Gaara?

You would think there would have been a sand Jounin somewhere in their village that could successfully dispose of Gaara.
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Old 2004-12-07, 12:41   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponko
Gaara's caretaker was not a woman, it was his uncle Yashamaru. He could have been only Chuunin, but what about all the assassins after Yashimaru? His dad must have moved on to hiring Jounin after his Chuunin failed. Some of them should be as fast as Lee or Sasuke. I know a lot of people do not like to use the character book because there are inconsistancies, but Baki is a Jounin, and he is faster and stronger than Lee and Sasuke. Why not hire him to kill Gaara?

You would think there would have been a sand Jounin somewhere in their village that could successfully dispose of Gaara.
err.. sorry about that, my memory got somewhat mixed up, I don't know why I'm almost positive it was a woman...
I'm really, really fuzzy on a lot of what happened, but look at it this way. When the chuunin exam starts Gaara is loyal to the sand, which means somehow Kazekage got around to controlling Gaara right? So what if Kazekage changed his mind at some point and decided he didn't want to kill Gaara after all?
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Old 2004-12-07, 12:52   Link #24
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Gaara's caretaker was a dude.

It is always possible that Kazekage did not actually want to kill Gaara, but instead train him into becoming a vicious monster.

Feeding him a steady supply of Genins and Chuunins would certainly derange him and get him used to killing, QUICK.
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Old 2004-12-07, 14:41   Link #25
Hunter
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To be fast enough to bypass the sand shield isn't enough to hurt Gaara, you must also have enough raw strenght/particular jutsu to pierce the armor of sand.

But the most important point is how deadly Gaara can be in a desert where the environment is nothing but sand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel
As for the topic: I'd call it a plothole. Just what happend to the sand when Naruto attacked Gaara anyway?
Around his body to form the Shukaku-ish armor? :P
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Old 2004-12-07, 17:16   Link #26
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Kakashi saw that lee had some suckess. Lee in his Taijustsu (him being a specialist) even as a genin his taijustsu is a bit above the avg journin IMO . His super fast taijustu was enough to bypass the shield a little bit. So far the tactics used to assinate gaara havn't been taijustu specilists.

That + the addition of the chidori that kakashi taught to sasuke specifically to bypass the shield. The chidori being a very specialized move Gaara has never been faced with that before and it is a specically piercing attack.

Hence his first blood drawn.

As for his Naruto Fight Naruto had some heavey kyuubi help there and when he does that naruto beats most journin lvl people in the series.
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Old 2004-12-07, 17:19   Link #27
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I think Shikamaru is the best suited to take down Gaara. Think about it; Gaara has absolutely zero mobility in a fight, and his visibility is easily blocked by his sand. Shikamaru could shadow bind him like it was nothing. We know from the scene of the hospital that when Shikamaru is holding him, the sand no longer works(Naruto was able to punch him). He'd be defenseless.
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Old 2004-12-07, 17:49   Link #28
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Shika can't do anything against Gaara.
He can bind him for a while sure and then what?

He has nothing to pass through the armor and nothing to defend himself against the sand.
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Old 2004-12-07, 18:01   Link #29
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killed

Last edited by ChronoReverse; 2004-12-07 at 18:27.
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Old 2004-12-07, 18:10   Link #30
Hunter
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ChronoReverse, spoiler are forbidden even in spoiler tag you should edit your post quickly.

But anyway that wouldn't change anything to the fact that Shika has nothing to hurt Gaara.
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Old 2004-12-07, 18:26   Link #31
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blah blah
just assume that gaara could control the sand better so that it reacts quicker
blah
development
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Old 2004-12-07, 18:28   Link #32
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I've killed the spoiler, but I don't see how you can continue to claim that Shikamaru has nothing to hurt Gaara with.

Furthermore, since Naruto demonstrated for us (by landing the punch) that when Gaara is shadow-bound his sand doesn't protect him, what's to keep Shikamaru from using a shuriken on Gaara?
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Old 2004-12-07, 19:42   Link #33
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Because the shuriken would make the same kind of damage than Naruto's punch : none.
It wouldn't pass through Gaara's Armor of Sand.
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Old 2004-12-07, 19:47   Link #34
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being a bit offtopic on gaaras shield but how did naruto keep up with sasuke in their fight, it didnt seem sasuke was any faster.
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Old 2004-12-07, 19:47   Link #35
Zek
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Shikamaru is a team leader... Shadow-binding Gaara would leave him completely open to heavier attacks, and Shikamaru can release him right before to avoid taking damage like he did against Kin.
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Old 2004-12-07, 20:36   Link #36
VMLM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
Shikamaru is a team leader... Shadow-binding Gaara would leave him completely open to heavier attacks, and Shikamaru can release him right before to avoid taking damage like he did against Kin.
But Shikamaru doesn't have any heavier attacks.. and even though he is a team leader using a team sort of defeats the whole point of a versus you know?
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Old 2004-12-07, 20:45   Link #37
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elat
being a bit offtopic on gaaras shield but how did naruto keep up with sasuke in their fight, it didnt seem sasuke was any faster.
The little part 1 vs.1 on the roof was an anime filler, just watch how Sasuke fought against dozens of Naruto at the same time to understand the difference of skill in speed and Taijutsu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
Shikamaru is a team leader... Shadow-binding Gaara would leave him completely open to heavier attacks, and Shikamaru can release him right before to avoid taking damage like he did against Kin.
Yeah the jutsu of Shika is particulary usefull in team-fight.
Btw the shadow wasn't stopping the sand in the manga, only Gaara's body.
Garaa didn't try to kill them immediately because he was chatting like any vilain but the sand returned in his bottle and started to move around him whereas Shika was still holding him with his shadow.
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Old 2004-12-07, 21:29   Link #38
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i didnt bother to read the rest of the 2nd page but your forgetting( or im imagineing things ) that all the caregiver did was throw ninja stars (sorry my japenese lingo sucks) at gara, and the sand blocked that. after that gara countered by using his sand coffin.
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Old 2004-12-08, 10:26   Link #39
Deth moad ue
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Yashamaru, apparently, was a man...he was bishonin (sp) i believe...I thought he was a girl.....as i did sakon, udon, haku, etc...

I think a jounin would be strong enough to get past the sand shield, ala gai when he swatted the sand away to save lee.

Whether this is a function of Gais raw power or Gaara's fatigue is uncertain.

I just wonder why kaze kage didn't take Gaara himself. Why keep wasting ninja? Or maybe it's a test....kill gaara = insta-promotion?
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Old 2004-12-08, 18:28   Link #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xarrais
Kakashi saw that lee had some suckess. Lee in his Taijustsu (him being a specialist) even as a genin his taijustsu is a bit above the avg journin
You're wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deth moad ue
I just wonder why kaze kage didn't take Gaara himself. Why keep wasting ninja?
It must have been to test Gaara's strength. Of course the Kazekage wouldn't tell that Yashamaru. And I don't think Yasha was jounin lvl.
If he wanted Gaara dead, he would have used Baki (strongest sand jounin) which he obviously didn't.
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