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Old 2007-05-27, 18:23   Link #201
Demongod86
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Want to prevent rushes? Block your chokepoint with units like a buncha lings or several zealots, or the usual rax/SD with terran.

The only thing I didn't like about starcraft was that it was so brutally unforgiving. Make one mistake and nothing and I mean NOTHING will save you from that. Try to reach templars fast without too many dragoons and then all of your probes die to a mutalisk swarm...one zealot too few and you get lings out the ass. Don't babysit your HT vs. terran heavy metal for one second and they get annihilated by vultures and then the rest of your army gets tanked.

The fact that the "dragoon" now makes short work of the entire terran mass tank/vulture strategy means that they'll have to employ little marines, but that would mean that once protoss would get a single reaver that basically terrans are fucked over because their only counters to the immortals are bait for the rest of the protoss army. Not to mention that in basically even numbers, that the immortals will completely walk over terran infantry. What I mean by even numbers is even control. In the video demonstration, blizzard used 6 dragoons to demolish 8 tanks while losing 2, but then sent like 20 reapers after the dragoons if not more. 2 reapers to one dragoon and the protoss will stomp that. Hard.

I'm also a bit concerned about the banelings. If they don't require some high-end research level, they could be catastrophically imbalanced. The fact that you could plow through just about any ground force with banelings numbering a small fraction of what a whole swarm of zerglings couldn't do shit about is disheartening.

The protoss stalkers also don't seem that amazing. Whoopty doo, they can blink. I'm wondering why those reapers (there were still like 12 of them) didn't just open fire on the 4 stalkers...

Are they like the old dragoon with blink, or are they slow blinking vultures?

The phase prism is very impressive in that you can do a sort of ersatz-recall anywhere on the map, however, its ability as an "emergency pylon" is just silly. That thing has like 200 total HP compared to a pylon's 600. If you blew up the pylon, you can easily smack that phase prism while it's deployed, and on the side of the protoss player, who the hell is dumb enough not to lay out their base in such a way that the pylons don't intersect in quite a few places?

I also think that the phoenixes, unless that overload deals concussive damage (25% to large units) are heinously overpowered. If one overload hits all air units, then it's only a matter of getting X many phoenixes until that overload wipes out all the air units your opponent has on screen. For instance, if it takes 12 phoenixes to shoot down a single battlecruiser with a combined overload, then 12 phoenixes can even wipe out 1 battlecruiser, or 1000 battlecruisers all the same.

Those warp rays on the other hand seem rather useless compared to the phoenix because they only focus on a single target, and in terms of large-scale air battles where there are many units, be they mutalisks or battlecruisers, I think that a critical mass of phoenixes will do much better than the warp-rays ever could.

That mothership however reminds me of the war3 PotM's starfall ultimate. On the one hand, it's a newbie's wet dream. OMG 10 SECONDS AND THEIR ENTIRE 100 FOOD ARMY IS DEAD!! Sadly, the potm is either dealt with or the ultimate is harmlessly waited out. Same case I think with this mothership. First of all, the terrans have a stupidly easy counter in their science vessel (EMP shockwave = GFG), and throw in 3 battlecruisers' tomato cannons and that mothership gets splattered on the wall within several seconds. And unless the protoss finally got a way of repairing their mechs, all the zerg need to do is plague the damn thing anytime it comes into sight. As for the protoss, a single dark archon's feedback will do much the same thing an EMP shockwave will. Oops, useless piece of junk.

Yes, it looks damn cool, but you're only going to beat a moron with that.
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Old 2007-05-28, 00:16   Link #202
wsheit
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It's not clear what can counter what- especially with the mothership- at this point. As for balance...remember- we've only seen the protoss units and one terran unit. I'm not worried in the slightest.
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Old 2007-05-28, 09:01   Link #203
Eclipze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
(it looks like groups will have a size of 16 in SC2)
If I remember correctly, wasn't it stated that you now have no limit as to how many units you can select at once?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
In SC1 they could only fire all at the same tower if you didn't select each of them seperately and gave them another target. I would prefer it, if you could just choose a group of targets, and they divide their firepower automatically to get the best result.
Well, thats where micro-managing comes in. It'd be abit too easy if they implemented that kind of AI into SC2 - that way even newbies who managed to farm enough minerals can start pwning people, since all it takes is having X number of super units approach a group of relatively powerful enemies and let them do the Yamato/(insert special move) spamming with no effort of micro-managing at all.
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Old 2007-05-28, 09:08   Link #204
Skane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
~
Personally I also hope for a little improvent on the controls. Like when having selected a group of 12 units (it looks like groups will have a size of 16 in SC2) and planing to use one of their special attacks on different targets, that you don't have to select different smaller groups of them a few times and select their target manually. Like Battlecruisers using Yamatogun on missile turrets. In SC1 they could only fire all at the same tower if you didn't select each of them seperately and gave them another target. I would prefer it, if you could just choose a group of targets, and they divide their firepower automatically to get the best result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
~
Well, thats where micro-managing comes in. It'd be abit too easy if they implemented that kind of AI into SC2 - that way even newbies who managed to farm enough minerals can start pwning people, since all it takes is having X number of super units approach a group of relatively powerful enemies and let them do the Yamato/(insert special move) spamming with no effort of micro-managing at all.
Considering that WC3 already has this implemented, I will not be surprised if SC2 has it as well. It will also enable competition matches to be more fast-paced, which is one of their intentions.

Cheers.
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Old 2007-05-28, 12:18   Link #205
arcadeplayer987
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I expect better graphic
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Old 2007-05-28, 19:31   Link #206
gouf 1/2
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Originally Posted by arcadeplayer987 View Post
I expect better graphic
ive seen some screen shots for it and the graphics has indeed improved a bit.

I heard that terrans have a major boost in power, and also old characters return ~ i believe its 4 years later
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Old 2007-05-28, 19:52   Link #207
Matt Soulblade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaOH View Post
NOOBS! never judge b4 release!

heres some gameplay videos that will prove SC2 does not = WC3, and the units will work out! just wait and see!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6IhMdgdFvQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCleQxk3vsg

u ll wet ur pants if u are a true SC fan!
Oh, what is this?
I was commenting on the gameplay videos. The fact that the units and the rest will or will not work out is out of my range and yours too.
And btw, Im trying to be objective with what I say.
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Old 2007-05-28, 20:31   Link #208
grss1982
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
We've also seen a little bit of the Zerg.
It looks like finally they are able to build tunnels to regions, where they don't have their special territory. I wonder though, what is going to stop them now, to build the tunnels immediately into the enemy's base.

About the mothership: If I understand the explanations correctly, then all it's special moves only affect enemy units, which is IMHO a bit unrealistic. (Even the Arbiter's Stasis field affect frienldly units)

And the nuclear missiles seem to have become nearly useless. The little red dot was replaced by large and openly visible marking. Everybody is going to find the target on time an kill the Ghost. And you can even see how long it takes until the missile is going to hit.

Personally I also hope for a little improvent on the controls. Like when having selected a group of 12 units (it looks like groups will have a size of 16 in SC2) and planing to use one of their special attacks on different targets, that you don't have to select different smaller groups of them a few times and select their target manually. Like Battlecruisers using Yamatogun on missile turrets. In SC1 they could only fire all at the same tower if you didn't select each of them seperately and gave them another target. I would prefer it, if you could just choose a group of targets, and they divide their firepower automatically to get the best result.
That part really pissed me off. I mean in SC1 it was a laser dot and now its one very big crosshair-type thingy, which is a real dead give away for the lasing "ghost."
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Old 2007-05-28, 20:36   Link #209
grss1982
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Originally Posted by gummybear View Post
SPARTAAAAAAAA!

I am sorry, I just had to do it
For tonight we dine in HELL!!!


Sorry, could'nt resist. :lol:
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Old 2007-05-29, 00:06   Link #210
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grss1982 View Post
That part really pissed me off. I mean in SC1 it was a laser dot and now its one very big crosshair-type thingy, which is a real dead give away for the lasing "ghost."
I am hoping that this was just a promo hiccup, and that complaints by Terran-playing Koreans would soon remedy it. That reminds me, i need to dig up more Youtube videos of Emperor Boxer nuking EMPed Protoss Nexuses...

EDIT: I just heard news of a confirmed change in SC2 from SC; units on the high ground would have permanet fog of war protection when firing on units below, unlike in SC when they are briefly able to be targeted when firing. This means you need either flyers or units that can go up cliffs to stop reaver or Siege tank drops. That explains why we have jet pack units and Collusus now... Oh, and "blinking" can only work on terain that had been explored, so you can't blink into your opponent's base when you get into it the first time, you need to scout out the area.
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Old 2007-05-29, 10:14   Link #211
tkdtiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I am hoping that this was just a promo hiccup, and that complaints by Terran-playing Koreans would soon remedy it. That reminds me, i need to dig up more Youtube videos of Emperor Boxer nuking EMPed Protoss Nexuses...

EDIT: I just heard news of a confirmed change in SC2 from SC; units on the high ground would have permanet fog of war protection when firing on units below, unlike in SC when they are briefly able to be targeted when firing. This means you need either flyers or units that can go up cliffs to stop reaver or Siege tank drops. That explains why we have jet pack units and Collusus now... Oh, and "blinking" can only work on terain that had been explored, so you can't blink into your opponent's base when you get into it the first time, you need to scout out the area.
Koreans playing terrans??? I thought they only played zergs
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Old 2007-05-29, 10:27   Link #212
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by tkdtiger View Post
Koreans playing terrans??? I thought they only played zergs
Once upon a time, perhaps. Then Boxer the Terran Emperor made himself known, and his anti-Zerg tactics became widely adapted. Recently Protoss became popular again, but that is just your typical fluctuation of racial preference due to playing style and introduction of new builds and counter-builds.

We know from an interview that Blizzard is going to invite specific Korean pro-gamers as a part of their beta-test team. Assuming the Korean Airforce is willing to let him have some leave, I am pretty certain Boxer would be a shoe-in.
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Old 2007-05-29, 12:16   Link #213
LoweGear
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My take on the nukes: I would imagine that the MASSIVE dots would be for the player who launched the nuke, so as to give him an idea of where he dropped his nukes, and that other players can't see them.

I just hope.
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Old 2007-05-29, 12:47   Link #214
felix
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My guess it's an Observer thing, since that was a in-game cinematic of sorts.
There's not that much practical reason to show it to the person who launches it.
It's distracting, obstructive and let's face it.. how stupid can you be to forget the location?

Well I can only hope.
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Old 2007-05-29, 12:56   Link #215
LoweGear
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Originally Posted by Cats View Post
My guess it's an Observer thing, since that was a in-game cinematic of sorts.
There's not that much practical reason to show it to the person who launches it.
It's distracting, obstructive and let's face it.. how stupid can you be to forget the location?

Well I can only hope.
This is just an observation from many other RTS games I've played that have actually used this system (ex. Dawn of War and C&C), where a large sigil is shown on the location where the player deployed his spell or superweapon that other players can't see. Which gave me the impression that Blizzard was taking good ideas from other recent titles and implementing them in.
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Old 2007-05-29, 13:09   Link #216
Demongod86
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Actually those nukes came down FAR faster than they did in SC1. Nuclear launch, circle shrinks, kaboom. Took like all of ten seconds.

In the other SC, it took like 30.
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Old 2007-05-29, 13:18   Link #217
Davad
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Actually , i was thinking about.

ZERG RUSH!!

But i guess that's just me , i already can't wait to play it to be honest.
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Old 2007-05-29, 13:22   Link #218
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Actually those nukes came down FAR faster than they did in SC1. Nuclear launch, circle shrinks, kaboom. Took like all of ten seconds.

In the other SC, it took like 30.
yeah right.

to be more correct (and nitpicking ), it takes 23 seconds overal.
detection after 2 seconds
dot done after 18 seconds. 5 seconds later, B00m.

these are most of the time the longest seconds you ever have in this game. (especially when you see the oppenent using comsat like mad XD)
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Old 2007-05-29, 14:16   Link #219
arcadeplayer987
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Originally Posted by grss1982 View Post
For tonight we dine in HELL!!!


Sorry, could'nt resist. :lol:
You justlove that movie right?? me too
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Old 2007-05-29, 17:24   Link #220
gouf 1/2
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Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Or a campaign to kill her.
i dont agree that they would change her back cause she'll just go back and forth. I agree that a campaign to kill her is likely. Plus, ive done it many times in my own custom battle xD
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcadeplayer987 View Post
You justlove that movie right?? me too
haha, i love that movie too. Ive tried to replicate the battle in Starcraft and other games too. xD
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