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Old 2010-09-05, 17:57   Link #4081
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Yeah for some strange reason I felt like Roaches were this awesome zerg unit that could take on nearly anything.

Boy was I wrong.

I've been practicing against Hard Protoss and had a few close calls but eventually pulled through against them to the point I was literally making a creep highway towards their base.

On that end. How should Zerg players start out in basic?

This is what've I've done
8-overlord
10-overlord
14-pool
15-extractor
16-extractor
18-Queen
23-zergling
24-Roach warren

And then from there I basically just built armies of zerglings and roaches and focused on hit and run while building an expo. The AI fought back with stalkers which decimated my forces so I eventually switched to hydras backed by roaches which proved far more effective.
Why do you get 2 overlords at 8 and 10?
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Old 2010-09-05, 18:45   Link #4082
-Sho-
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Wow so true 8 Overlord , 10 Overlord = -100minerals for your early pool , give a great advantage for Opponent specially if they intend to rush = lose .

Well BO depends on your opponent BO too and the map , scouting is prio 1 very important so , what i do vs Z player = early scout at 6-8 workers to prevent Pool 6 . T = 7-9 , P = 7-9 .
9-10 = Overlord would be better .
10-15 = Pool , depends on you and your opponent . 13-15 still ok to prevent Proxy Gate rush.
For extractor it depends on your BO again . Well you did 14 Pool so 15-16 is still ok .
16 = Queen
17-18 = 2nd Overlord
...
...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
That happened to me once I was trying to build an expansion, but it always canceled, I was confused and saying "What is going on..." Till I brought a Detector and noticed it was a Zergling

Also if anyone has the time, can anyone check this replay to see what went wrong? Was my opponent to defensive in this match? I'm just wondering what could have been approved of my tactics, and what were the flaws, since this was my 3rd win as playing the race Zerg.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...rg-lost-temple

Wow , first , P player was really bad so no doubt that you won , well i guess he was in silver or bronze league .

- Rallying point for Probe fail lol

- He didn't use Chronoboost (well he did it on mid game but only "sometimes ... still got 50+ mana )

- Slow so slow , well 10-15 Average APM he won't go so far .

- No army at the beginning , just a bunch of photon easy to destroy .

Well , he was bad .

Actually you could have beat him faster . Speedlings + Roachs = Win .


What you need :

- Defense ! No spice crawler specially when you fast expand .

- 3rd fast expand after that just the 2nd was ready ? need more Worker on mine.

- P had around the same amount of workers in 1 expand that you had in 2/3 expands .

- Need more micro on your army , you let them die so fast and easily . Know when to back .

- Always learn Burrow .

- Also always upgrade gling to speedlings . Speed + Tumor = Flashlings !

- Muta harass ? you know that he build many photon + stalker so Mutas got pawned + again you let your army dying .

- 4th expand , well you expand a lot but you need more army + tech , with all the mine+gaz you got .

- Use your queen , they were full mana , always use them for larva when you've done with tumor . How will you do if P was more skilled at least at the same APM like you and used a counter specially with no defense in your base you need a lot of larva to counter it .


Well , i think that's it , all i can say at least my first impression . Be carefull for next matches cuz you'll find more skilled opponent than this "beginner" P player.
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Old 2010-09-05, 19:14   Link #4083
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sho- View Post
What you need :

- Defense ! No spice crawler specially when you fast expand .

- 3rd fast expand after that just the 2nd was ready ? need more Worker on mine.

- P had around the same amount of workers in 1 expand that you had in 2/3 expands .

- Need more micro on your army , you let them die so fast and easily . Know when to back .

- Always learn Burrow .

- Also always upgrade gling to speedlings . Speed + Tumor = Flashlings !

- Muta harass ? you know that he build many photon + stalker so Mutas got pawned + again you let your army dying .

- 4th expand , well you expand a lot but you need more army + tech , with all the mine+gaz you got .

- Use your queen , they were full mana , always use them for larva when you've done with tumor . How will you do if P was more skilled at least at the same APM like you and used a counter specially with no defense in your base you need a lot of larva to counter it .


Well , i think that's it , all i can say at least my first impression . Be carefull for next matches cuz you'll find more skilled opponent than this "beginner" P player.
I made so many mistakes
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Old 2010-09-05, 19:46   Link #4084
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I haven't laddered in like a week, eek! Tommorow that shall change again.
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Old 2010-09-05, 20:01   Link #4085
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sho- View Post
Yeah that really works fine ^^ also for T player , it'll cost him 50 mana = Mule = 150 minerals and then you can play with burrowing Roach in his main CC assuming that when you get orbital people always use his mana when it reach to 50 + his wall will be open if he have to kill the gling . Unless that he went for Turrets but people only build them if they see Air or invis .
For P player , it's another story
A mule is 280 minerals, not 150.

And there is no cheese with banshees, cheese is something you pull off to kill the opponent straight away in very short time with severly cutting your economy to get it up faster. You aren't doing any of this stuff with banshee so it's not cheese.

If the opponent has no anti-air with detection it's his fault, not yours.
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Old 2010-09-05, 20:38   Link #4086
Archon_Wing
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Why is storm so friggin bad vs air units? I can land like 3953920532 on them and they may even be there for the entire duration yet it doesn't really do that much. Actually it seems harder to target air units with spells for whatever reason. Honestly I get more use by using feedback lol./
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Old 2010-09-05, 20:44   Link #4087
-Sho-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
A mule is 280 minerals, not 150.
Ow lol i mistaken with Orbital cost , well mule = 270 minerals ^^
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Old 2010-09-05, 20:48   Link #4088
Archon_Wing
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Not to mention the delayed expo also means less moneies. And if you are really sneaky, you can use the zergling to mug his building worker.
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Old 2010-09-05, 20:59   Link #4089
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sho- View Post
Wow so true 8 Overlord , 10 Overlord = -100minerals for your early pool , give a great advantage for Opponent specially if they intend to rush = lose .

Well BO depends on your opponent BO too and the map , scouting is prio 1 very important so , what i do vs Z player = early scout at 6-8 workers to prevent Pool 6 . T = 7-9 , P = 7-9 .
9-10 = Overlord would be better .
10-15 = Pool , depends on you and your opponent . 13-15 still ok to prevent Proxy Gate rush.
For extractor it depends on your BO again . Well you did 14 Pool so 15-16 is still ok .
16 = Queen
17-18 = 2nd Overlord
...
...
Ok I'll give that a try.


Quote:
I made so many mistakes
Darn right boy, now go to your room and think about it

Quote:
Not to mention the delayed expo also means less moneies. And if you are really sneaky, you can use the zergling to mug his building worker.
Exactly how would a zergling mug a worker?

SCV: La de da de de de da
Zergling: GIve me your ******* mineral!
SCV: I've only got five minerals!
Zergling: Give it to me anyways!
SCV: you can't even carry one!
Zergling:.......
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Old 2010-09-05, 21:02   Link #4090
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Darn right boy, now go to your room and think about it
So cruel

Quote:
Exactly how would a zergling mug a worker?

SCV: La de da de de de da
Zergling: GIve me your ******* mineral!
SCV: I've only got five minerals!
Zergling: Give it to me anyways!
SCV: you can't even carry one!
Zergling:.......
This made me lol
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Old 2010-09-05, 21:09   Link #4091
Tiberium Wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Somehow Archon and I managed to win this epic 2v2 game. It was... a little ridiculous.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...light-fortress

Lesson of the day. Mass marines > mass stalkers any day.
Oh god! The game was horrible. The Terran dude in the team was clearly a noob (only 1 base to gather resources). The game should have been finished in less 20m.
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Old 2010-09-05, 22:32   Link #4092
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Exactly how would a zergling mug a worker?
Unburrow, kill worker and burrow back.

Also, speaking of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddwkc View Post
Did someone else suffered of "double economy" rush in 2x2? I dunno if this exploit has an "official" name. When playing against a 2x2 arranged team, one of the opponents drops off the game and the other guy will get the extra 50 minerals and whatever the workers gather. It's usually a Zerg/Protoss (Protoss will drop off).

Zerg can just 6 pool real fast and make a Queen. Protoss just build the economy with Chrono boost. The next wave will be around 12+ speedlings. This is about 2:30 ~ 4:00 mark. If you're Zerg, you may not even have a Spawning Pool yet even if you 6 pool. Terran may defend better with a fast bunker and counter with Reapers. Protoss must close entrance and cannon up basically. Later if you survive the initial, he just flood you with mutalisks. It's really not hard do macro 2 economies if you are at least high Gold or higher.

I hope Blizzard is aware of this and change the redistribution of resources when a partner drops off the game.
Yea, after having tried it out in a 3v3 with Hooves when he dropped, I'd say it is pretty ridiculous. If the rax and zealot build time are gonna be nerfed in the next patch, I would say it's pretty much unstoppable.

Oh and btwb it's a pretty huge clusterfuck trying to control a dropped ally's base because you can't see their supply count. If your ally is zerg and you're toss, and you hit the supply cap for the zerg, you get the more pylons message. Yea...
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Old 2010-09-06, 00:08   Link #4093
paladinenvec
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Just finished the campaing in normal mode, its was easy however the difficulty its strange when you setup this one to Hard its gets really Very hard maybe its just me but anyway... the game was pretty good but the story goes from so-so until you get the zeratul crystal and raynor┤s side of history until the final chapters.
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Old 2010-09-06, 03:37   Link #4094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paladinenvec View Post
Just finished the campaing in normal mode, its was easy however the difficulty its strange when you setup this one to Hard its gets really Very hard maybe its just me but anyway... the game was pretty good but the story goes from so-so until you get the zeratul crystal and raynor┤s side of history until the final chapters.
Yeah, there is not much of a story. I wish we could have some logs from those missing years or stuff that happened on the novels. When the story starts to pick up, it just ends. I wish we could play more with Tosh or any other hero unit.

Hard is indeed way harder than Normal, but very manageable to play as your first playthrough. Wait till play some Brutal missions. Still the singleplayer is far from being truly hard even in Brutal. You can save at any part of the missions and most achievements are not that hard to figure out overall. Actually I like that way, having a manageable difficult than having really hard missions.
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Old 2010-09-06, 03:55   Link #4095
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Quote:
Still the singleplayer is far from being truly hard even in Brutal.
That's because you got T in campaign xD I wonder if Heart of the swarm will be truly difficult, although I've heard it will be of a totally different style (ala WC3).
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Old 2010-09-06, 03:59   Link #4096
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
That's because you got T in campaign xD I wonder if Heart of the swarm will be truly difficult, although I've heard it will be of a totally different style (ala WC3).
Yeah Terran are basically the OP race so far in Starcraft 2 atm. Heart of the Swarm will probably be hard since people will not be accustomed to Zerg, since the Zerg is a very hard race to get accustomed to. Also the fact the majority of their troops are very squishy, and people are more used to sending their units in and getting results with medics there
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Old 2010-09-06, 04:08   Link #4097
Kafriel
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I think the hardest part will be survival rounds (Zero hour but with MMM on the active side...) and roaches will shine in this campaign, especially if they have upgrades for even more HP/armour/regen(!). I know it's not out yet and everything is just speculation, but if I don't speculate for a year or two then the waiting will drive me to insanity :P
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Old 2010-09-06, 05:28   Link #4098
LoweGear
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... The Hakurei Shrine has joined the fight...



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Old 2010-09-06, 05:40   Link #4099
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
... The Hakurei Shrine has joined the fight...
<snip>

Where is that slave bunny?
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Old 2010-09-06, 05:46   Link #4100
Reckoner
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Man. Hilarious game incoming of a 2v2, me and a friend against some other dudes in diamond/plat.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...-monlyth-ridge

So if you want to see all resources on the map being consumed, failed builds, failed strategies, or just fail in general, come take a look.

It's getting frustrating now though that we haven't been promoted to diamond (Also frustrated about not being promoted to diamond in 1v1). I just honestly want to know the criteria of blizzard's league promotion system. In 2v2, my friend and I have been ranked #1 for quite a while in plat (And are apparently beating lots of diamond players).

~~~~~~~``

On a side note. It seems that my friend and I hardly ever lose to non-cheese strategies (Proxies, reaper rushes, etc.). It's quite annoying how widespread cheese gets at the higher levels of team games too.
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