AnimeSuki Forums

brocko · 2010-09-27, 21:44

It seems like in SC2 there isn't really any good ground to air unit for Terrains anymore, especially against the giant armoured flyers. Kinda miss the goliaths because of this to be honest =/ I mean Toss is good with stalkers and sentries, zergs is awwwwright, they've got hydras although a slight step backwards from sc1 imo (how am i suppose to swarm with a two food hydra on crutches?) =/

Oh and i hate how the new unit pathing works, everything just gets pushed and shoved out of the way now... =/

Anyone else been having probs with bnet after the new patch though? Sometimes i go to join a game and it just hangs. Like it won't join that game, but at the same time i can't stop the request to join that game (because bnet knows best) so i can't do jack squat since all the other buttons to create games and join a different game is grayed out. Blizzard, Blizzard, Blizzard. Just bring back the old bnet system already

Xacual · 2010-09-27, 21:51

Are you talking about for custom games? I was having that issue before the patch, it's usually because you tried to join the game before your game list was fully populated, trick is to just wait about 10 seconds.

Sassarai · 2010-09-27, 22:11

I read on the battle net forums about using Ravens and a few turrets to guard your base against muta harass. Throw down a pdd and just let the turrets do the work. Sounds pretty effective.

brocko · 2010-09-27, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xacual

Are you talking about for custom games? I was having that issue before the patch, it's usually because you tried to join the game before your game list was fully populated, trick is to just wait about 10 seconds.

Yup, was custom games. I found that out later towards the end though, when i had to reboot my SC2 like 4 or 5 times... =/
Still waiting on that namechange they promised us lol

Archon_Wing · 2010-09-27, 22:27

I wouldn't say Thors "own" void rays. But just to make sure I tested it.

3 void rays vs 3 thors= 3 void rays won without losing any
10 void rays vs 10 thors= thors won with 9 left.

I guess splash does matter-- but i did one last test.
10 Fully upgraded void rays vs 10 fully upgraded thors-- Void rays win with 7 left.

I have no idea what's up with these fluctuations; maybe the unit tester isn't the best place to do them. But the speed upgrade seems to matter a lot.

notes: Void rays are cheaper, but upgrades are more expensive.

Ithekro · 2010-09-27, 22:31

If being used as a defense, I don't imagine someone will use Thors alone against Void Rays. They will either have some turrets or marines working on the Void Rays as well, or at least have an SCV repairing the Thors as they go (I tend to run a SCV with each Thor, but I've never run more that say four Thors around so far). The campaign ability to rebuild destroyed Thors in the field would be really handy.

Archon_Wing · 2010-09-27, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocko

Oh and i hate how the new unit pathing works, everything just gets pushed and shoved out of the way now... =/

The pathing is amazingly bad. While most of the time it's better than sc1 melee units will get stuck behind ranged ones and run in circles. Usually lings get stuck behind roaches. Infestors are kinda bad with that too.

The other annoying thing is that in sc1, if you have a wall and tried to order units past it, the units would generally reach the wall, stop, and run around a bit. Pretty bad, but in sc2 if you do that your units will try to take a straight path, and run into a dead end! They just give up on finding a path. Sometimes it results in your units being nowhere close to your wall.

brocko · 2010-09-27, 22:39

^ Never noticed the units giving up on finding a path before. I'll try and take notice of that next time. I've noticed the units getting stuck behind one another though, especially melee behind ranged. It's one of my pet peeves with the game and i think it happens due to the general nature of units liking to be bestest friends forever sticking to eachother like glue, leaving relatively little to no gaps between one another. Why don't you push your way through now you girly zealots?! >< (no seriously, just look at the way zealots flail their arms around when they attack now and tell me that doesn't look girly to you )

I'd imagine only a few number of Thors supported by other units would be enough to take on a large void ray army. The Thors can tank the void rays buying precious time for the other units to hammer on the void rays while the splash weakens em beforehand. But yea there's too many factors and variables to take into account when you're doing these unit vs unit match-up. Best not to think about it in game imo and just macro shitloads more units than your opponent

EDIT: Also noticed people whinging about the mineral boost trick on the bnet forums. Hope they don't patch it out. I mean it only nets you what an extra 30 or 40 minerals? And it becomes uselss after 6 mins or so... =/ Way to take skill out of the game if they patch it. If you're good enough to pull it off, you should be rewarded for it.

Reckoner · 2010-09-27, 23:21

So if you guys ever want to see why resource boosting is broken. Here. I win this game pretty much 1v3, after both my allies drop (One of them being Hooves).

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8...defined;markup

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooves

It would take the wildest miracles to take one of them out

Nope. Broodlords get owned by thors. 10 Broodlords vs 10 thors, fully upgraded. Try it out. You just can't let the thors sit there and let the AI take over is all.

Broodlords only become useful against thors when combined with ultralisks and/or tons of roaches and lings. They're just good at messing up thor AI, which is ridiculously retarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I wouldn't say Thors "own" void rays. But just to make sure I tested it.

3 void rays vs 3 thors= 3 void rays won without losing any
10 void rays vs 10 thors= thors won with 9 left.

I guess splash does matter-- but i did one last test.
10 Fully upgraded void rays vs 10 fully upgraded thors-- Void rays win with 7 left.

I have no idea what's up with these fluctuations; maybe the unit tester isn't the best place to do them. But the speed upgrade seems to matter a lot.

notes: Void rays are cheaper, but upgrades are more expensive.

These fluctuations are extremely strange I must say. Though I find it highly confusing that 3 void rays could take on 3 thors. I call shenanigans on that one.

Anyhow I think any self respecting T player would always have scv's repairing as well.

Also I based my reasoning on experience. I lost to like 4 thors with 10 void rays yesterday. Was stupid.

brocko · 2010-09-27, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reckoner

So if you guys ever want to see why resource boosting is broken. Here. I win this game pretty much 1v3, after both my allies drop (One of them being Hooves).

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8...defined;markup

Just so no more mis-understanding arises, i was talking about mineral boosting not from dropped allies but the "sock-folding" method described here:

Archon_Wing · 2010-09-27, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reckoner

These fluctuations are extremely strange I must say. Though I find it highly confusing that 3 void rays could take on 3 thors. I call shenanigans on that one.

Anyhow I think any self respecting T player would always have scv's repairing as well.

Also I based my reasoning on experience. I lost to like 4 thors with 10 void rays yesterday. Was stupid.

Well, it's not too hard to explain. 1 void beats 1 thor without micro. As numbers increase, that splash really adds up and the thors start winning heavily.

The confusing part is just that the speed upgrade for void rays helps a lot. And of course, differences in upgrade levels matter a lot as well.

yezhanquan · 2010-09-27, 23:54

Also, 1.1.1 is coming. The sock-folding will apparently be taken out.

Archon_Wing · 2010-09-27, 23:57

That's really disappointing. It's not like there's much to do in the 1st minute anyways.

Who · 2010-09-28, 00:22

A tribute to the all-famous IdrA rage.

Kafriel · 2010-09-28, 00:33

Quote:

Well, it's not too hard to explain. 1 void beats 1 thor without micro. As numbers increase, that splash really adds up and the thors start winning heavily.

The confusing part is just that the speed upgrade for void rays helps a lot. And of course, differences in upgrade levels matter a lot as well.

I think VRs are a better bet overall, because thors have very limited mobility and are best used as a support unit to a bio ball, so it's rare to see then en masse, while VRs are an army in their own right and easier to make in comparison to thors.

Archon_Wing · 2010-09-28, 00:38

Thors are easier to integrate in any Terran army though. Void Rays are on a separate tech path with its own upgrades. And for them to be truly effective, the speed upgrade which requires a fleet beacon is quite pricey too.

On the the other hand, you are usually likely to have a factory and machine shop for tanks. You will most likely sport on armory for tank upgrades which also benefits thors. Not to mention infantry level 2+ requires an armory as well.

In other words Thors are an easily accessible option to you in any game because the tech buildings it requires are buildings you are going to get eventually anyways. Void rays require more dedication if you want to use them outside of early game rushes.

Myssa Rei · 2010-09-28, 03:22

Thanks for to all those who have advice. Finished Zero Hour on Hard by basically hitting the Zerg hatcheries with a massive hammer: 90+ marines followed by 15 medics. Even had more than enough forces to spare to send back to defend the base.

Now, hmm, maybe the Tosh missions on Hard perhaps?

-Sho- · 2010-09-28, 07:39

Patch 1.1.1 :

Quote:

Bug Fixes

* Fixed an issue where Ultralisk cleave range was being unintentionally extended by larger targets.

* Fixed an issue where the Phoenix's Graviton Beam was automatically canceled if you used it just after the Phoenix reached 50 energy.

* Fixed an issue where queuing Return Cargo on a worker would cause it to ignore the built-in delay after it finished gathering.

* Fixed an issue where players watching older replays or saved games would experience stuttering.

* Fixed an issue where some Mac users were unable to join games properly.

Cool for Ultralisk

and mineral boosting is dead .

Idra's video is hilarious . Damn too bad no HD ..

Anyway except placement in 1v1 , i don't really understand the 2v2 , 3v3 , 4v4 with random player ... i mean come on for example , i did a game with 4v4 .

Opponent : 2 Diamond players with 500+ win + 2 golds vs Me (no league yet) + 2 gold and 1 bronze . Well i don't care to face diamond player i still can beat some of them but look how it's unbanlanced ...
and the worse thing it's to play with random player who didn't talk at all , except 1 who said "Hi all "i was the only one trying to find a plan .... man i was trying to understand their plan too , that was :facepalm: , no teamtalk = no teamplay = lose ..
the worst it's that we still could have won omg , anyway i'm qualifyed in Platine .

SaintessHeart · 2010-09-28, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sho-

Patch 1.1.1 :

Quote:

* Fixed an issue where queuing Return Cargo on a worker would cause it to ignore the built-in delay after it finished gathering.

Wait. So what the heck are we going to do during the first 1 minute of the game? Sit around talk?

Reckoner · 2010-09-28, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Wait. So what the heck are we going to do during the first 1 minute of the game? Sit around talk?

Honestly, it wasn't even a big deal. I'm glad they took it out so I can at least relax for a little part of the game. It's not that hard to do if you practice it a little bit, so it doesn't even make the game "more pro."

I also feel that it made scouting the enemy base unnecessarily difficult to micro.

2010-09-27, 21:44	Link #4721
brocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯	It seems like in SC2 there isn't really any good ground to air unit for Terrains anymore, especially against the giant armoured flyers. Kinda miss the goliaths because of this to be honest =/ I mean Toss is good with stalkers and sentries, zergs is awwwwright, they've got hydras although a slight step backwards from sc1 imo (how am i suppose to swarm with a two food hydra on crutches?) =/ Oh and i hate how the new unit pathing works, everything just gets pushed and shoved out of the way now... =/ Anyone else been having probs with bnet after the new patch though? Sometimes i go to join a game and it just hangs. Like it won't join that game, but at the same time i can't stop the request to join that game (because bnet knows best) so i can't do jack squat since all the other buttons to create games and join a different game is grayed out. Blizzard, Blizzard, Blizzard. Just bring back the old bnet system already __________________ http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger. Last edited by brocko; 2010-09-27 at 22:20.

2010-09-27, 21:51	Link #4722
Xacual Infinite Level Cap Join Date: Mar 2008	Are you talking about for custom games? I was having that issue before the patch, it's usually because you tried to join the game before your game list was fully populated, trick is to just wait about 10 seconds. __________________

2010-09-27, 22:31	Link #4726
Ithekro Space Battleship Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 35	If being used as a defense, I don't imagine someone will use Thors alone against Void Rays. They will either have some turrets or marines working on the Void Rays as well, or at least have an SCV repairing the Thors as they go (I tend to run a SCV with each Thor, but I've never run more that say four Thors around so far). The campaign ability to rebuild destroyed Thors in the field would be really handy. __________________

2010-09-27, 22:39	Link #4728
brocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯	^ Never noticed the units giving up on finding a path before. I'll try and take notice of that next time. I've noticed the units getting stuck behind one another though, especially melee behind ranged. It's one of my pet peeves with the game and i think it happens due to the general nature of units liking to be bestest friends forever sticking to eachother like glue, leaving relatively little to no gaps between one another. Why don't you push your way through now you girly zealots?! >< (no seriously, just look at the way zealots flail their arms around when they attack now and tell me that doesn't look girly to you ) I'd imagine only a few number of Thors supported by other units would be enough to take on a large void ray army. The Thors can tank the void rays buying precious time for the other units to hammer on the void rays while the splash weakens em beforehand. But yea there's too many factors and variables to take into account when you're doing these unit vs unit match-up. Best not to think about it in game imo and just macro shitloads more units than your opponent EDIT: Also noticed people whinging about the mineral boost trick on the bnet forums. Hope they don't patch it out. I mean it only nets you what an extra 30 or 40 minerals? And it becomes uselss after 6 mins or so... =/ Way to take skill out of the game if they patch it. If you're good enough to pull it off, you should be rewarded for it. __________________ http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger. Last edited by brocko; 2010-09-27 at 22:51.

2010-09-27, 23:54	Link #4732
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 27	Also, 1.1.1 is coming. The sock-folding will apparently be taken out. __________________ Those from the lower levels cannot hope to surpass those from the upper. RIP, Oba-chan (1935-2008)

2010-09-27, 22:11	Link #4723
Sassarai Army of One Join Date: Apr 2007	I read on the battle net forums about using Ravens and a few turrets to guard your base against muta harass. Throw down a pdd and just let the turrets do the work. Sounds pretty effective.

2010-09-28, 00:22	Link #4734
Who Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY, USA Age: 22	A tribute to the all-famous IdrA rage.

2010-09-28, 03:22	Link #4737
Myssa Rei Moderate Haruhiist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Age: 31	Thanks for to all those who have advice. Finished Zero Hour on Hard by basically hitting the Zerg hatcheries with a massive hammer: 90+ marines followed by 15 medics. Even had more than enough forces to spare to send back to defend the base. Now, hmm, maybe the Tosh missions on Hard perhaps? __________________