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Old 2011-07-01, 16:33   Link #6861
Kyuu
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Haha, holy freaking cow. XD

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Old 2011-07-01, 17:16   Link #6862
Flying Dagger
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omg.... for the longest time I thought top is going to lose... chargelot HT very bad vs colossus!!! his HT kept getting EMPed too....
and then..... THAT happened....
Epic fail in its finest.
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Old 2011-07-01, 17:44   Link #6863
Archon_Wing
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Q: Stim or Shield first?

I know against zerg, you'd get stim since the extra health does fuckall vs banelings, and against Protoss you'd need marauders which don't benefit from shield.
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Old 2011-07-01, 22:32   Link #6864
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From all the replays that I watch, the commentators usually complain on the players if they don't get stempack first. Also haha on nuking your own units
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Old 2011-07-01, 23:00   Link #6865
Flying Dagger
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Stim 1st then shield, you can line them up for a very sick marine timing push (which is all I used back in beta)

TvT always shield 1st. Combat shield marines > stim marines. Unit retention is very important.
TvP stim 1st.
TvZ both have their strengths. Most prefer stim 1st (myself included), but rmb:
Combat shield makes ur marines last 1 more hit vs roaches, and 2 more hits vs zerglings.
Some people counter banelings with good marine spread (a lot of bw players do this via control grps - I use 1 as all my marines, 2 3 and 4 are small divisions) and prefer the unit retention.
I like stim because it lets me sandwich my marines between extractors/minerals while their lings helplessly funnel themselves into a small choke.

Note that both banes and tanks do 35 splash to marines: w/o shield a stimmed marine dies in 1 hit.
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Old 2011-07-07, 21:27   Link #6866
Proto
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Wow, I'm the only person in the channel today, that's an all time low for this time of the day.
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Old 2011-07-08, 18:05   Link #6867
Flying Dagger
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NASL finals are a great disappointment in terms of production. Delays, long wait time, darkened colors, sound troubles... etc...
I also didnt realize they made 480p subscribers only: used to be free. Maybe they are not making enough money so they must stealth nerf the free stream.

I am going to be cheap and hope NASL will take a page out of MLG's book and just make the whole event free to watch.

Koreans dominating!!!
Ret is not even anywhere close to hurting puma.
Sheth could have won match 2 if not for the terrible engagement. Also very poor anti-DT protection allowing DTs to cause trouble whole game long.
Morrow got manhandled by July's aggressive ZvT style - he lives up to the title of the God of War.
MC v boxer later tonight is going to break my heart no matter how the coin lands =/.

I feel that the foreigners are feeling a bit on the nervous side: they need to try going for all-ins and/or early pressure. It is always the Korean the one who has the tempo of the game for the most part.

Fun fact: sheth is/was the only american in the NASL.

Last edited by Flying Dagger; 2011-07-08 at 20:11. Reason: typo
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Old 2011-07-08, 18:52   Link #6868
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Waiting for Moon to say "Koreans own white dudes". Again.

Last edited by Who; 2011-07-08 at 19:59.
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Old 2011-07-08, 19:57   Link #6869
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Well non-Koreans have been trash relative to the Koreans since 2003.

I suppose there was this brief window when sc2 came out. Most of us just don't realize how bad we really are until we see the true monsters of the world.

Once the true pros move to sc2, it's time to be hit by a dose of reality. Hint: most of the sc2 pros now were generally B-teamers or worse save for the few legends.

So yes, imagine people you already worship with that kind of skills... and yet they were mostly there to scrub the toilet for the progaming teams. Yes, Idra was merely a glorified toilet scrubber. The rest of us aren't even qualified for that.

You truly have no idea what you're dealing with. There's tons of kids that were basically used for child labor by the sc2 progaming teams, and they probably have the skills to crush any player you've heard of. And above that sad sack of trash lies the deities such as Flash and Jaedong, who I somehow doubt are human. Even the former "legends" like Nada and July were rarely a match for them.

And before you say sc2 is a different game, I've never been able to beat any decent sc1 players @ sc2, regardless of how little they played.Not that I'm any good or even Masters level, but those skills really do carry over more than anyone wants to admit. But it was still funny seeing them run people over with pure macro without knowing what warp gates or sentries are.

"Well, i saw them build that tripod thing in those games, so it's probaly overpowered and I built it. And because it's Protoss. Fuck Protoss" <<<--- Quick observations indeed.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2011-07-08 at 20:16.
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Old 2011-07-08, 20:25   Link #6870
Flying Dagger
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There is a very simple fix: merge world ladders or allow global access of global gateways. This will likely be a wake up call to foreign "pros" to work harder to get out of the global diamond league.

Owned isn't even the right word: its more like a little fish getting shoved into the depths by a giant tsunami.

The Koreans are a lot more dedicated, and they work very hard as a team to share builds and metagaming (I recall someone saying the oGs will set a goal such as "I want x number of y units @ n minutes: what is the best way to do so?" and working very hard to practice and refine the build.

A lot of foreigners want to have a "life". They want to make money via coaching. This may have to do with sponsorship of esports in SK vs the rest of the world.

Esports is also a very top heavy business: the top 10% of progamers will likely pocket the majority of prize money.

Even Sen got rolled in game 1 -.-
Edit: yay the asian blood in sen prevails!

Last edited by Flying Dagger; 2011-07-08 at 20:49.
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Old 2011-07-08, 20:28   Link #6871
Who
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
"Well, i saw them build that tripod thing in those games, so it's probaly overpowered and I built it. And because it's Protoss. Fuck Protoss" <<<--- Quick observations indeed.
Haha, who said that?

Anyone else manage to catch this during Sen v Zenio?

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Old 2011-07-08, 20:43   Link #6872
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who View Post
Haha, who said that?
Someone I knew, who has hated on P since the last 10 years or so. He played a little sc2 but never really again. >.>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
There is a very simple fix: merge world ladders or allow global access of global gateways. This will likely be a wake up call to foreign "pros" to work harder to get out of the global diamond league.
Lol, this is Blizzard we're talking about. We have to wait for them to take their heads out of their asses first.

NOTE: At least they aren't as far up as KESPA though.

There's definitely a lot of untapped potential, and Blizzard could make the competition huge. At least when I last followed progaming, the way they managed it (the Koreans) was pretty pathetic. One finals was screwed up due to a power failure; if any organized competition was like that over here, they'd get laughed out of the country. If anything, our side knows way more about marketing and hype. You can market any trash, if you're convincing.

Of course, the powers that be would just like to make as much $$$ and exploit the fuck out of the poor kids, and they tried very hard to keep Blizz out of Korea. But it's only a matter of time, if someone flexes their muscle.
Quote:
Owned isn't even the right word: its more like a little fish getting shoved into the depths by a giant tsunami.
Yea pretty much.
Quote:
The Koreans are a lot more dedicated, and they work very hard as a team to share builds and metagaming (I recall someone saying the oGs will set a goal such as "I want x number of y units @ n minutes: what is the best way to do so?" and working very hard to practice and refine the build.
Yep, they spend hours upon hours perfecting the same build, win or loss it doesn't matter. All that matters is to get that one thing mastered.

Most of us are pretty more wishy washy; we may be like "Hey I want to do this... or I want to do that" but doing something without knowing the proper procedure just lands in failure.

See, every time I get owned I just ragequit. Instead of scrutinizing the replay and just working out that one build.

I often hear many a person say that's "Boring". But that's the reason why we suck. Loss? Blame Lag. Blame Blizzard. Blame your ally. It's never your fault. Or maybe, just shut the fuck up and keep practicing.

A word of advice to anyone that wants to really get better: Stop trying to be creative and learn a build. You can't be creative til you learn how to play.

You know that person that says he doesn't like build orders? He's trash. You know that person who says Pros are only good cuz they play so much? He's trash too. That person that accuses his opponent of trying to win? Trash. Person that says you can always win just because you can do X? Trash. That person that ignores advice? Trash. Any time someone cusses you out when you win (Or even lose) that person is trash, and is butthurt to realize it.

But hey, at least Idra isn't trash for one of these. And that's why he's there, playing.


Quote:
A lot of foreigners want to have a "life". They want to make money via coaching. This may have to do with sponsorship of esports in SK vs the rest of the world.

Esports is also a very top heavy business: the top 10% of progamers will likely pocket the majority of prize money.
Well, money does rule the world. Even if they do love the game, it means nothing if they can't support themselves. And many are probaly realistic... have some fun here, but still work on something more long term. The life of a starcraft progamer is not very long; it's hard to remain on top forever.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2011-07-08 at 20:53.
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Old 2011-07-08, 23:05   Link #6873
paladinenvec
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NASL
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-07-09, 03:56   Link #6874
Flying Dagger
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Darkforce the dark horse!
=( @ the loss of white-ra and Boxer. I hope Boxer will have better luck in MLG - he has been slumping and need some motivational boost. Jessica told us he is still a very hard working player, doing his best to not let his fans down.


One thing which really hurt me is that there was someone in the audience who loudly shittalked gretorp and asked for day9 during the MC v Boxer downtime. Gretorp looked as if he was about to cry =(.

The whole "go USA" thing among crowd+forum is also pissing me off a bit: there were only 2 Americans: sheth and SelecT. National pride is one thing, but this whole "USA! USA!" thing is overdoing it. You want national pride? Try to not make a fool out of your nation via hate comments against one of the casters first.

Sigh... Americans.


My predictions for tomorrow:
Puma > Squirtle 2:1
Artosis has high hopes for Puma, and I have also watched some of his play during the open bracket: succeeding is not an easy feat!

July > Moon 2:1
I feel that Moon is more of a macro player: I recall his ZvP where he would take every expo on the map vs the 3 bases his opponent was on. July on the other hand: crazy aggressive - but yet, when needed he has also shown his capabilities to go up to hive tech. Hard to call due to the highly volatile nature of early game ZvZ.

Sen > Darkforce 2:0
Darkforce may be the dark horse, but I was not impressed at his control at all. His expo timing/drone pump timing also seem to be rather off. Sen on the other hand, fresh off his victory over Zenio, has a much more refined mechanic and timings. He is capable of both long macro games or powerful all-ins 180 degree switch after getting rid of the scout.

MC > SelecT 2:0
Interestingly, the last time they met (in their division) SelecT threw his games away since he didn't want the #1 seed. MC has pretty solid PvT with a wide variety of openings: 1 gate expo, 3 gate stargate... etc. I feel that Select was able to advance due to white-ra's mistakes: a critical misplacement of FF in game 1 (he would likely have caused significant damage via DTs if he can buy enough time), and losing key stalker+zlot early on in game 2 along with a somewhat questionable tech. MC is unlikely going to make the same mistakes, and without that effective early/mid game push, SelecT's weak late game will allow MC to dominate.
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Old 2011-07-09, 09:36   Link #6875
Who
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post

The whole "go USA" thing among crowd+forum is also pissing me off a bit: there were only 2 Americans: sheth and SelecT. National pride is one thing, but this whole "USA! USA!" thing is overdoing it. You want national pride? Try to not make a fool out of your nation via hate comments against one of the casters first.

Sigh... Americans.
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Old 2011-07-09, 10:39   Link #6876
yezhanquan
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Age: 29
In other news, I didn't know that Linda Liao was a top SC2 player. I know her as an idol, but apparently, as "pikachu", she kicks ass. Anyway, she's a Taiwanese, but knows both Mandarin and English.
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Old 2011-07-09, 13:59   Link #6877
Flying Dagger
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Spoiler:

Last edited by Flying Dagger; 2011-07-09 at 19:57. Reason: Added Semi-final predictions. Going to stop edits to keep them legit.
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Old 2011-07-09, 20:49   Link #6878
Flying Dagger
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Spoiler:

Last edited by Flying Dagger; 2011-07-09 at 23:13.
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Old 2011-07-09, 23:04   Link #6879
HurricaneHige
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Spoiler for MC vs Sen:
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Old 2011-07-10, 02:47   Link #6880
Flying Dagger
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Predictions for tomorrow:
July vs Sen
July 3:2 Sen
Sen stood toe to toe with MC and pretty much only lost on games that he could have won (guard BLs better next time! Maybe add spores to your expos when you are ahead!), but that's ZvP. He also demonstrated some decent ZvZ vs darkforce - though I feel darkforce doesn't necessary belong there.

July's loss to Puma is pretty sad to watch. Get roasted over and over by hellions, crumble to a scouted 2 rax bunker (cant blame him: very hard to stop - nerf bio pls?). He did, however, beat Moon: someone who I consider share a similar "greedy" econ trait as Sen.

I feel that Sen's strength relies on metagaming: he definitely studied MC well, but will(/did) he study July just as well? Both players in their ZvZ favored a similar +1 roach timing, making this series hard to call.

If Sen does his homework tonight, he can likely take the series 3:1. If not, July's better control of units and game sense will likely score him the 3:2 victory.

MC v Puma
MC 3:2 Puma
Puma: very sneaky and hyper-aggressive. He knows his race well and has a lot of pretty deadly cheese/all-in with sharp timing (thus "the perfect training partner").

In PvT I dread the period where I have no clue what a terran is doing behind that wall - hellion open? cloak banshees? marine all in? Standard bio? Marine tank banshee raven all in? There is this VERY powerful terran timing where a protoss' life becomes totally dependent on heroic forcefields: a skill MC has perfected.

By now Puma should know MC's style very well, while I doubt MC knows much about Puma (beside that you can do terrible terrible damage via DTs). It is up to Puma to pull out that one deadly early aggression to seal the game in his favor and follow through with some solid play.

But MC didn't make it into the finals/semifinals of so many tournaments by pure luck. He has his own arsenal of builds and is able to perform amazingly well under pressure.

No matter what the results will be: Puma definitely has proven himself to be a force to be reckoned with, and will likely receive a hero's welcome when he returns to the TSL teamhouse.
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