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Old 2013-06-02, 05:03   Link #8241
Flying Dagger
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i gotta be honest: innovation played terrible in the finals.

His harassment and multitasking should be a lot better: he keeps doing drops which essentially do no damage... that is fine until he does silly stuff and loses his medivac+units inside as well.

In soulkey's mind, all he needed to do is deflect bogus' drops harass and he will be in good shape *while* putting on the pressure.

bogus also had a terrible game plan imo. If you are ahead 3:0.... I think he should have just played standard games (ok, maybe well orchestrated timing attacks that is not an all in). Does he think he stand no chance vs soulkey 4 macro games in a row?

In fact, if he just played super turtle... soulkey's own timing would have brought bogus ahead. Even if somehow soulkey end up winning the next 3 set from macro games, he is going to be very weary about going to for a roach timing as he know bogus prob have tanks on high grounds already.

I still think bogus is the better player, but on that day he played like a RO16 player, not a GSL finalist.
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Old 2013-06-02, 08:24   Link #8242
oompa loompa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
i gotta be honest: innovation played terrible in the finals.

His harassment and multitasking should be a lot better: he keeps doing drops which essentially do no damage... that is fine until he does silly stuff and loses his medivac+units inside as well.

In soulkey's mind, all he needed to do is deflect bogus' drops harass and he will be in good shape *while* putting on the pressure.

bogus also had a terrible game plan imo. If you are ahead 3:0.... I think he should have just played standard games (ok, maybe well orchestrated timing attacks that is not an all in). Does he think he stand no chance vs soulkey 4 macro games in a row?

In fact, if he just played super turtle... soulkey's own timing would have brought bogus ahead. Even if somehow soulkey end up winning the next 3 set from macro games, he is going to be very weary about going to for a roach timing as he know bogus prob have tanks on high grounds already.

I still think bogus is the better player, but on that day he played like a RO16 player, not a GSL finalist.
Now that I look back at it, I get the feeling he just hadn't prepared right. The only reason I can possibly imagine he didn't make a tank in game 5 (After losing to the roach-bane all-in in game 4, and previously losing to symbol in similar fashion), and the reason he went for proxy 2-rax in game 6 was because he wasn't confident he could deal with the roach-bane all in. It was almost like he didn't know how to, I mean he did it before, but that was great unit control and not a counter. I mean, its understandable, the push is harder to hold than it looks. Kind of akin to how so many people would just straight up die to 2rax when MKP first started that cheddar. In game 7 soulkeys vast experience really showed, as he was absolutely frosty in the game. In the end I think it was a bad performance because it wasn't a very professional performance.
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Old 2013-06-03, 18:48   Link #8243
Terrestrial Dream
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Looks like no one cared WCS NA. Can't blame them, compare to EU it was horrible. They need some audiences in that studio or just more enthusiasm.
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Old 2013-06-04, 14:29   Link #8244
Flying Dagger
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I have been losing interest in MLG since some time last year.
A few days ago I read something about MLG wanting to boost revenue by 50%. In my head I screamed wtf.

WCS NA production has been terrible. As much as they want to support their homeboys axeltoss+axlav, a lot of people hoped MLG can bring in additional casters with better synergy and experience.

They spent money in a fancy studio in downtown manhattan, but they are not some high class business. They need a proper studio somewhere accessible with some seats for the local crowd.

Hell, they can just take a page from takesen and rented a big house and use it as an officer+studio. Would even have room for the players.
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Old 2013-06-04, 16:17   Link #8245
Hooves
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Already lost interest in Starcraft 2 again. Will just wait for Legacy of the Void just to get things over with for plot and story.
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Old 2013-06-04, 20:32   Link #8246
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http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/10...ft_II-6_4_2013

can anyone help me with the spawning thing for sc2? i need a WoL player to party with in NA and SEA.
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Old 2013-06-08, 13:12   Link #8247
oompa loompa
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Damn, soulkey vs sos again in the semis, and innovation is also there. soulkey vs innovation wcs final? YES PLEASE.
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Old 2013-06-08, 16:40   Link #8248
Terrestrial Dream
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I picked Innovation to win, but I would like to see Mvp win it for some strange reason.
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Old 2013-06-08, 23:26   Link #8249
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Old 2013-06-09, 00:00   Link #8250
Terrestrial Dream
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Ha, Carbot is always awesome .

And that Mvp vs Innovation. The second game was epic.
I feel like Mvp could have won if he had all of his helion in his base, or at least most of them, instead of in the middle of the map. With Helion on his base he could have fend the drop and then pushed out and do some damage to Innovation.

Anyway that was really good match.
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Old 2013-06-09, 00:45   Link #8251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Ha, Carbot is always awesome .

And that Mvp vs Innovation. The second game was epic.
I feel like Mvp could have won if he had all of his helion in his base, or at least most of them, instead of in the middle of the map. With Helion on his base he could have fend the drop and then pushed out and do some damage to Innovation.

Anyway that was really good match.
That video was made in response to the introduction of the new Spawning feature in SC2. The video shown zergs in the pool as "paid players", while the marines as starter edition players, and the pool itself as the "spawn party".

Cloaken did an astonishing job for the social feature of online multiplayer in SC2.

BTW, you got the video of that match?
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Old 2013-06-09, 00:54   Link #8252
Terrestrial Dream
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The match just happened so I don't think there is a vod yet, they might release one soon though.
And the final will be on soon.
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Old 2013-06-09, 10:54   Link #8253
oompa loompa
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godayum bogus 4-0. Hmm.. I'm going to go ahead and guess that soulkey got lucky. This guy is the real deal, i haven't seen anyone roflstomp so much. Except that 1 time nestea won without losing a game.
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Old 2013-06-12, 05:14   Link #8254
Seitsuki
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Quick question on terminology, what's the difference between a cheese and an all-in?
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Old 2013-06-12, 09:10   Link #8255
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Quick question on terminology, what's the difference between a cheese and an all-in?
Fairly subtle I think.. quite a lot of threads about this on TL, with no one agreeing on anything. Most probably, people just label stuff as 'cheese' when they're frustrated about a new creative all in strategy, (doesn't need to be all in, apparently there's economic cheese as well, like a lot of terrans 3CC builds are called cheese, but I think that's BS).

A cheese is a super risky strategy that will only work if the opponent hasn't figured out how to beat it yet, or doesn't scout. If you prepare for a cheese, or figure out how to beat it (before its figured out cheese is often really really tough to beat). Generally low-skill is associated with cheesy strategies. Most all-ins are cheese. A non-cheesy all in is one that is super high risk (it is, after all, all in), but is difficult to beat regardless if executed with high enough skill. For example : 3 roach 25 ling rush (wzp rush), or proxy 2rax is cheese, but an immortal all in vs Z, or roach-bane all in vs T is not.
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Old 2013-06-12, 15:15   Link #8256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Quick question on terminology, what's the difference between a cheese and an all-in?
Cheese = Anything that is unexpected and nonstandard thus worth QQ'ing about, since most sc2 players (elsewhere too) are scrubby scrubs regardless of actual skill and demand their opponent play exactly the way they want to. (Idra is famous for that).

All in = a strategy that either works or it doesn't. It's essentially flipping a coin and is dependent on your opponent being unable to defend against either by luck because they couldn't scout it or because it directly counters most sane builds.

In most cases, this is indicative of bad map or game design if the map lends itself to these strategies. In other cases, it is a way of discrediting someone's win. In either case, it allows a player of lesser skill to defeat a player of higher skill. Though most people fail to realize that losing and winning is not indicative of who is the superior player, but instead who was the better player in that particular instance.
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Old 2013-06-12, 17:02   Link #8257
Flying Dagger
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I classify cheese as anything that requires anonymity to work. Pretty much once you scout it (or "blindly" counter, ie: putting up a turret in mineral lines if you see a gas-hvy toss with late expo) you will be able to fend it off and "may" pull ahead. Ie: proxy stargate oracle. A stargate open is a valid opening (does not classify as an all in as you can smoothly transition out of it).

All in is a giant timing (does not require full worker pull) which will put you significantly behind if not enough damage is dealt to a point where the game is essentially lost. All in does not require as much anonymity (ie: scv pull, 1 base timings vs someone with established expo, protoss 8 gate attacks - as you lack the tech and econ after the attack to combat your enemy's tech/econ advantages).

Cheese and all ins are not mutually exclusive. 6 pool is both an all in and a cheese (except in certain maps in certain matchups to counter a certain metagame).
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Old 2013-07-04, 08:01   Link #8258
Flying Dagger
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watched GOSL today: hellbats man, hellbats.
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Old 2013-07-05, 06:54   Link #8259
Terrestrial Dream
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I haven't played SC2 for few months because of Hellbats (well one of the reason). TvT use to be the best, most tactical match up, and it was all about positioning. Now TvT is "lol I got Hellbat before you so I win. Oh wait my Hellbat dropped failed, lol well here is another 4 Hellbats drops, opps I think I won that". I suck at TvT as of now, and I rather not deal with the stupidity of Hellbats.

Just nerf their damage that they would nee be blue flame to do their current damage output. Also, possibly add the transform upgrade to be required so that it would take longer to get Hellbat.
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Old 2013-08-15, 22:26   Link #8260
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I stumbled upon this WoL game, but I noted it because it's Flash, and what a sick fuck. I didn't realize you could even play the game like this, I mean he keeps faceplanting into the banelings and still never stops. Usually I just lose if the army goes splat against banelings, lol.



Flash is so amazing, he even makes Sc2 look interesting.
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