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Old 2008-08-28, 06:29   Link #101
FLCL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Meh GT-Rs are overrated

There is a car that is as capable as Skyline GT-R and it's called Supra Mk IV Turbo. There's plenty of Supras in the US. Its 2JZ-GTE engine has variable valve timing and is much more durable than Skyline GT-R's RB26DETT. Also note that export Supra Mk IV Turbo stock has more power than JDM (JDM's 280 hp vs US's 310 hp).
Im well aware of the 2jz, i own a single turbo sc300 boosting 15 psi on a t71 my friend, but i just like the look of the GTR and the 4wd, but the car id really want is a evo 6.5 T.M. edition....drool.

as for manual, the only thing that really is hard for people is shifting without stalling or matching the rpm, thats about it.

When i get back into the states, ill make a album of my cars. imho, the 2jzgte is overrated, a 2jzge or a 1jzgte is better and makes more or the same power for so much less $
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Old 2008-08-28, 09:06   Link #102
Strahan
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Originally Posted by Superchop View Post
Lol, it sure is....

around where i live the only people that know how to drive manuals are either posers who can't really drive them but pretend like they can, elitists that think they're better then everyone else (yet still can't drive them properly), people that come from other countries where automatics were a rarity, or people like me who just prefer more then pressing the gas and the brakes (which are very few).

But i think people are just too intimidated by the shifter and the clutch pedal. I forced myself to learn by buying a manual tranny car when i didn't really know how to drive stick and i picked up on it rather quick. It's really pretty simple once you get the basics and don't freak out WHEN you stall the car. Lol...notice i said "when" and not "if"
Yea it does seem to be that way. I learned on a 70s Jeep CJ7 when I was 16. My mom's boyfriend had me drive it around then he parked on a hill and said we weren't going home until I could start up the hill w/o significantly drifting backwards. His clutch smelled a little funny by the time we went home, but I was driving stick great ever since lol.

I like having more control over what my car is doing and people say manuals save gas if you drive them right. I haven't noticed any special gas savings though, but then again I'm not driving to keep RPM low either heh. When I car shop I don't look at autos unless stick isn't available. My favorite car I had was an automatic, a BMW 740i, but they don't make stick for that car in the US so I had to buy auto. I did find a shop in Philly that would throw in an M5 six speed for $12k but I couldn't justify spending that much for it hehe.
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Old 2008-08-28, 18:33   Link #103
FLCL
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yeah unfortunately ive been sol recently when its hunting for 5 speeds, a while back i was looking for a 240sx before i found the rx7, and i found like 5, but they were all autos. ugh annoyance.
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Old 2008-08-29, 02:55   Link #104
Skyfall
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Automatic eh ... personally i have been driving manual for 4 years now (ever since i got the license) and wouldn't have it any other way. (Actually, over here you must take the driving exam with a manual in the first place). At some point i got to drive automatic for a few days ... and i completely didn't like the feeling. Of course it likely has to do with the fact i am completely used to manual by now, so not having any work for my right arm felt very awkward, as was the usage of only 2 pedals ... it just felt like something is missing. (Technically, something was missing ).

It just felt like i had lost a bit of the control i have over the car, which wasn't among the most reassuring of feelings. Who knows how many times i subconsciously stretched my hand towards the non-existent stick when approaching a crossing to shift in to neutral, only to realize there is no need to ...which felt awkward as hell

The meaning of "home, sweet home" finally dawned upon me when i could switch back to my old car. I definitely would never trade in my stick for an automatic gearbox ... it simply like to have the feeling of having something to do with my right arm, as well as having complete control over my car. Manual for life

(And should something happen, you can still push-start it ...which i , thankfully, haven't had the need to do thus far)
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Old 2008-08-29, 06:34   Link #105
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I think a driver's preference is affected by the type of transmission (as well as the car) that they drive from the beginning and/or most often.

I actually learned how to drive with an automatic and had started out with an automatic for a quite a while. Switching to a manual wasn't easy, to be honest. At least not initially. Not only are there more things that you realize that you're suppose to keep track of, but you also have to actually develop stronger muscles at certain parts of the bottom half of your legs. (Some muscles that you don't develop from just jogging or biking, strangely enough.) In a sense, it's like relearning how to drive a car. What makes it awkward is the fact that you have the mindset that you're already a skilled driver...as someone who drives an automatic. Once you get out of that mindset, then things start to get easier to learn and absorb.

This is the one (of a possible few) advantage(s) of people who learn how to drive manual from the beginning. Switching between manual to automatic then back again isn't so bad since, as Skyfall explained, the only awkward feeling you get is that some things that you naturally try to do, move or press are no longer there and/or available.

Although I don't mind automatics, I probably would prefer manual more often due to two reasons; First, as you get better and more fluid with your driving and shifting, your mpg rating will go up since you have greater control of the car. Now, mind you, car manufacturers are developing better automatic transmissions to be smarter in order to be more efficient with fuel consumption. Second, as someone who participates in street racing, manual is best since automatic transmission are more prone to breaking easily as well as less companies offer upgrades or modifications for automatic transmissions to tolerate the "abuse" and prolong its life.

Oh, and on another note; Cars with automatic transmission can be push started as well. It may be not all cars with automatic transmission can do it, but so far, it's worked on every car I've witnessed being tried on, including my first car and my current car before I did a whole automatic to manual conversion with an engine swap.
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Old 2008-08-29, 07:19   Link #106
Ledgem
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Manual transmission will fade away if the development of cars continues on its current path. I don't believe there are any manual hybrids, and based on what I know hybrids wouldn't really be compatible with manual driving (unless you also shift control over the electric engine over to being manual, as in when to start and stop it - I can imagine that some people would like that). Electric cars are built upon a seamless transmission, so there's no gearbox to mess around with.

My first experience with manual transmissions was on a motorcycle. It contributed nicely there. After that I tested manual transmission with a jeep. It was awful - compared to the motorcycle, everything felt so stiff and unforgiving. Part of the fun of the motorcycle was being able to feather the clutch, which gave added control and felt a bit nicer. From what I hear, if you try that with a car you'll just end up burning the clutch out quickly, as the clutch in cars was designed to either be fully engaged or not. I liked being able to vary the amount of power being drawn from the engine by having the clutch somewhere in between. It was quite useful at slow speeds.
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Old 2008-08-29, 07:56   Link #107
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Part of the fun of the motorcycle was being able to feather the clutch, which gave added control and felt a bit nicer. From what I hear, if you try that with a car you'll just end up burning the clutch out quickly, as the clutch in cars was designed to either be fully engaged or not. I liked being able to vary the amount of power being drawn from the engine by having the clutch somewhere in between. It was quite useful at slow speeds.
I can't really imagine any reason to feather the clutch for any extended period of time though. (Unless you like more noise from the engine). Only time when you would want that for one or two seconds is when you are starting to move the car, or switching from first to second gear (Might be from second to third as well a bit, especially if the car has 6 gears) in order to obtain "smoother" transition. (Car doesn't jerk because you released the pedal too quickly). It won't be breaking anytime soon though because of just this.

And as with most things - practice makes perfect. The more you drive manual, the better you will become at doing so. After enough practice (Which is likely to take a fair amount of time though for it to become an unconscious process) you will be able to shift gears quickly enough and at the right timing, almost completely eliminating the need to hover the pedal. I realize though why shifting from automatic to manual might seem harder than the opposite - as Phantom-Takaya said, switching to automatic simply means you are going have to do less, while switching to manual would mean you actually have to keep track of more, which, i imagine, might be a handful to handle at first.


As for manual fading away ...i don't know. While automatic is fairly popular in US, manual transmission is dominating the European market. While in most cases you can order an automatic transmission if you want, manual is the default option you get over here when buying a car. While sometime in the futer that could change due to new directions of developments (aforementioned electronic cars), i don't see that preference changing anytime soon, and the market will continue to pander to it.
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Old 2008-08-29, 11:38   Link #108
Mystique
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Manual all the way!!!

To be honest Ledgem, what with 1.15 per litre on petrol, no one can afford to barely get to work, let alone get fancier cars with automatic gears. About 85-90% of cars in UK = manual. I didn't even know about automatic until i hung out with americans a lot on my old forums and found that manual or "stick" is as rare over there as auto was to me.

Personally prefer manual, just came from driving lesson and haven't been in a car for a while. While it is a lot of work to switch from 3rd to 2nd and back to 3rd again, there's the nice feeling of knowing that i'm doing all the control and handlinh, not the car controlling itself to a degree.
(and then there's that auto pilot thingy, i forget the name)
But i was in my friends car going from Georgia to Savvanah, was sitting at the front, she driving 70mph and her legs were off the damn pedals and the car was driving itself steady at 70.

Let's just say, i lost some years that day, my heart would not stop beating double time until she put her feet on the damn pedals and actually (in my opinion) drove the damn thing x.x

But yeah, for all the car enthuiasts that I see, I'm not one per se, but i still can def apprciate the 0-60 in a few secs while super speed gear changing and hearing that enging rev.
Nothing quite like it

You gotta listen to the engine to sense when to change at times, i kinda like deveoping that skill.
(not to mention getting biting points down pat is kinda fun, slightly risky but fun to keep a car stationary on a hill and drive off from it)
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Old 2008-08-29, 13:25   Link #109
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
(and then there's that auto pilot thingy, i forget the name)
But i was in my friends car going from Georgia to Savvanah, was sitting at the front, she driving 70mph and her legs were off the damn pedals and the car was driving itself steady at 70.

Let's just say, i lost some years that day, my heart would not stop beating double time until she put her feet on the damn pedals and actually (in my opinion) drove the damn thing x.x
That handy thing is called Cruise Control. I actually like this one quite a bit - you basically activate it when driving at a certain speed and the car will automatically maintain that speed. Quite handy when you have to travel large distances with no need to change the speed in immediate future. Without it, i have a tendency not to pay attention to the speed during "duller" parts of the journey, which often results with me "coming to", only to realise i am driving 30 kph faster than i should be ... which of course would cost me, should i happen to meet some cops along the way

I find the thing quite helpful and comfortable - and disengaging it is no hassle either - it ceases the moment you happen to touch either the brake or clutch.
I like the thing
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Old 2008-08-29, 14:25   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
About 85-90% of cars in UK = manual. I didn't even know about automatic until i hung out with americans a lot on my old forums and found that manual or "stick" is as rare over there as auto was to me.
True, over here in Europe we've been keener to use conventional manual transmissions, with automatic boxes being traditionally associated with larger, executive cars. Things are changing though; more and more cars are coming with automatic transmissions and we're buying them. During the past five years, the demand for automatics has doubled. And this figure is set to grow even further. My friend who works as an engineer for McLaren keeps me informed.

The American love affair with self-shifters has always been strong. Probably because of the long straight roads they have.

Anyone drive a car with a CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission)?
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Old 2008-08-29, 15:33   Link #111
Zoned87
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Automatic cars were invented in the 40's and were mostly dominant by the 70's/early 80's in the United States.

Finding manual cars here is hard, ive only seen a hand full in my lifetime.
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Old 2008-08-29, 16:24   Link #112
Mystique
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Skyfall, we call that "lazy" over here
Yes, long distances are mundane but that is driving, keep your focus and concentration at all times ideally.
To each their own anyways
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
True, over here in Europe we've been keener to use conventional manual transmissions, with automatic boxes being traditionally associated with larger, executive cars. Things are changing though; more and more cars are coming with automatic transmissions and we're buying them. During the past five years, the demand for automatics has doubled. And this figure is set to grow even further. My friend who works as an engineer for McLaren keeps me informed.
So i've noticed, huge-ass American made 4 x 4 cars have no place on London roads, they're noisy, loud, huge and can't navigate half the tiny ass roads without being a real hazard obstacle, and its not like there's any bloody room to use the horsepower that it comes with
/end rant
I know more of those kinda cars are being bought in richer parts of england in the countryside areas, where its just single track lanes etc, but for a city as crowded as we are, it's a danger in itself x.x

My instructor keeps me informed on the auto front too
Since he teaches for both, more peeps prefer to opt for lazy option, so it will rise, but still manual will reign for many a year i figure and prob the attitudes with it too.
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Old 2008-08-29, 16:33   Link #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Manual all the way!!!
But yeah, for all the car enthuiasts that I see, I'm not one per se, but i still can def apprciate the 0-60 in a few secs while super speed gear changing and hearing that enging rev.
Nothing quite like it
As an obvious "car enthusiast", I'm not really a fan of 0-60 in whatever seconds. It just tells me that the lesser the seconds it takes to reach 60, the higher the torque a car has, which automatic transmission cars are capable of having. In fact, in a drag race (which 0-60 in whatever seconds is usually most useful in), I've seen automatics beat manual cars because of this. Simply something to think about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoned87 View Post
Automatic cars were invented in the 40's and were mostly dominant by the 70's/early 80's in the United States.

Finding manual cars here is hard, ive only seen a hand full in my lifetime.
Huh... I'm a little confused as to why people are saying manuals are quite rare... I'm sure I've already met over a hundred people who drive a manual in (or through) my city, cars and trucks, and whatever in between, alike. To add to that, my state is one of the roughest places to drive a manual not only because of slopes, but icy terrain, which means, as a driver, there's more to be aware of at all times. I know more outside of the city as well as in the other states who drive manual as well. I personally believe that they're not as rare as people think, but simply the manual to automatic ratio is in favor of automatics.
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:07   Link #114
escimo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
True, over here in Europe we've been keener to use conventional manual transmissions, with automatic boxes being traditionally associated with larger, executive cars. Things are changing though; more and more cars are coming with automatic transmissions and we're buying them. During the past five years, the demand for automatics has doubled. And this figure is set to grow even further. My friend who works as an engineer for McLaren keeps me informed.

The American love affair with self-shifters has always been strong. Probably because of the long straight roads they have.

Anyone drive a car with a CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission)?
CVTs are a work of Satan. I'd like to see them disappear from the face of the earth.

Automatics have a bit of a problem with torque converter. Hydraulic turbine can't beat a clutch in terms of efficiency. SMGs are on paper a fair compromise, but I'm yet to test a good one.

To sum up, on track, manual all the way. In normal traffic automatic is far more comfortable but it has a negative effect on fuel efficiency due to torque converter. Currently driving an automatic, it's the right transmission for the current car, however if I'll get crazy and buy something a bit more sporty I'll be sure to have it with "proper" manual. It's really the only option when you drive "enthusiastically".
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:08   Link #115
Zoned87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya View Post
Huh... I'm a little confused as to why people are saying manuals are quite rare... I'm sure I've already met over a hundred people who drive a manual in (or through) my city, cars and trucks, and whatever in between, alike. To add to that, my state is one of the roughest places to drive a manual not only because of slopes, but icy terrain, which means, as a driver, there's more to be aware of at all times. I know more outside of the city as well as in the other states who drive manual as well. I personally believe that they're not as rare as people think, but simply the manual to automatic ratio is in favor of automatics.

I'm sure manuals are common in Alaska, roads are rough there, but in the rest of the country its a somewhat different story.
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:11   Link #116
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoned87 View Post
Automatic cars were invented in the 40's and were mostly dominant by the 70's/early 80's in the United States.

Finding manual cars here is hard, ive only seen a hand full in my lifetime.
That is really different from what I previously thought. I would say the opposite and have only seen a handfull of automatics here. It doesn't help when second hand cars are so plentiful here and they tend to be old which usually means manual.

I guess different parts of the world can be quite different on something so commonly used.

@Mystique ~ lol, lazy XD

I think that we too when people around here drive using automatics, not even my relatives escape my jabs
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:53   Link #117
FLCL
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automatics are only superior for going in a straight line, after all electronically controlled shifts are flawless, most dragcars are automatics.

for autosports though, clutch FTW
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Old 2008-08-29, 23:00   Link #118
Jazzrat
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Been driving for 9 years now, while manual are fun to drive, i rather drive an auto for work. By the end of the day, my legs felt like jelly and the last thing i want to do is step on a clutch.
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Old 2008-08-30, 01:51   Link #119
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya View Post
As an obvious "car enthusiast", I'm not really a fan of 0-60 in whatever seconds. It just tells me that the lesser the seconds it takes to reach 60, the higher the torque a car has, which automatic transmission cars are capable of having. In fact, in a drag race (which 0-60 in whatever seconds is usually most useful in), I've seen automatics beat manual cars because of this. Simply something to think about.
It's no so much the speed that i care about/enjoy as it's the combination of actions between the clutch, gear stick, accelerator and listening to the engine to pick up speed as fast as poss. Not many of us can hit 60 anyways short of driving off straight onto a motorway, but 1st to 4th gear while "racing" from a traffic light, hands on the gear stick at the ready, engines sligtly revving, waiting for the green light.

Maybe it's a London thing, since we're typically in a hurry, but there's a mini rush from that from using a manual as opposed to just flooring the accelerator pedal and racing off, having to wait for the car to change itself gear wise.

(And yes, i'm aware of many diff factors, depending on engine type etc, that'll determine who'll win or who can push off faster before i get any more "real" car enthuiasts at my back)

@ jazzrat:
my thighs get the brunt work there, but yo, we're exercising muscles! (as well as braincells too) xD
At least, it kinda feels like a semi workout which someone in some weird way kinda compensates for using a car and not walking or getting other exercise.
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Old 2008-08-30, 02:08   Link #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoned87 View Post
I'm sure manuals are common in Alaska, roads are rough there, but in the rest of the country its a somewhat different story.
Uh... What? No. In the summer, roads are just like that in Seattle. In the winter time, the roads are sometimes icy or certain parts of the road have ice patches. That means, as I previously stated, driving a manual is more dangerous because road hazards increase.

Imagine your vehicle stopped on a 45 degree (or more) sloped road that's a mixture of ice and snow because you're waiting, along with a line of other cars, for the light to turn green. Now, when it turns green, you have to quickly switch your right foot to the gas and synchronize your right foot pressing the gas pedal while your left foot releases the clutch pedal. And you can't let a second pass by during the transition of your right foot from the brake pedal to the gas pedal without running the risk of the vehicle rolling backwards. Not only that, if you hit the gas too hard too fast, the sudden rotation of the tires will cause friction between the surface of the ice/snow and the tires. This means that it doesn't move and simply slips, which means your car has a high chance of slipping backwards, rear-ending someone.

Automatic transmission cars simplify that by obviously having no clutch pedal to step on during the transition from the brake pedal to gas pedal, allowing your left foot to stay on the brake pedal while you use your right foot to rev your engine high enough (not too high) to make the car move forward the moment you release the brake pedal.

Now, when I stated that I've met at least a hundred people who drive manual, that doesn't mean they make up most of the population of my city of over 50,000 people. Now, granted that some of that population are children, but that still leaves more drivers driving cars with automatic transmission. What I meant by my statement was that manual transmission cars are not as rare as one would think. And that's one city. I know there's more in the other cities of Alaska. And the fact that I've been to Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Arizona, Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, Texas, Indiana, Ohio, New York, Virginia and Florida, and I've met many people with manual transmission cars further reinforce my belief that manual transmission cars are not as rare as one would think.
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