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Old 2008-08-30, 02:21   Link #121
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya View Post
Imagine your vehicle stopped on a 45 degree (or more) sloped road that's a mixture of ice and snow because you're waiting, along with a line of other cars, for the light to turn green. Now, when it turns green, you have to quickly switch your right foot to the gas and synchronize your right foot pressing the gas pedal while your left foot releases the clutch pedal. And you can't let a second pass by during the transition of your right foot from the brake pedal to the gas pedal without running the risk of the vehicle rolling backwards. Not only that, if you hit the gas too hard too fast, the sudden rotation of the tires will cause friction between the surface of the ice/snow and the tires. This means that it doesn't move and simply slips, which means your car has a high chance of slipping backwards, rear-ending someone.

Automatic transmission cars simplify that by obviously having no clutch pedal to step on during the transition from the brake pedal to gas pedal, allowing your left foot to stay on the brake pedal while you use your right foot to rev your engine high enough (not too high) to make the car move forward the moment you release the brake pedal.

That's why there's a handbrake for times when the roads are more hazardous. UK is full of hills, and they do test us on hill starts all the damn time for the exam, (unless lucky to have a test area where there aren't too many) so when in doubt or unsure that you can pull off the biting point balance to keep the car stationary, use handbrake. If you mess up on it, its an automatic fail for the practical.
(Sounds like more work, but it's no real extra to changing gears as far as i see it)
Just gotta be quick with hands and co-orindation and like most things, since its repeated actions, it becomes a natural habit in time

Speaking of which, i've switched from a petrol to diesell car for practice, the diesel reduces that prob that you highlighted there, i feel like i'm freaking cheating using a diesel car cause its so easy to control and the there's isn't a need to execute a fine balance of cluth/accelarator control. Bring clutch to half way (instead of the usual 80% up or so) and it's enough. Car remains stationary and switch from brake to accelator is simply a quick slide and press
(Not to mention, this thing has power, if i'm not paying attention the car drives away from me) xD
I'll get used to it, just hope i don't totally lose the knack for driving a petrol car too.
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Old 2008-08-30, 02:32   Link #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post

That's why there's a handbrake for times when the roads are more hazardous. UK is full of hills, and they do test us on hill starts all the damn time for the exam, so when in doubt or unsure that you can pull off the biting point balance to keep the car stationary, use handbrake. If you mess up on it, its an automatic fail for the practical.
(Sounds like more work, but it's no real extra to changing gears as far as i see it)
Just gotta be quick with hands and co-orindation and like most things, since its repeated actions, it becomes a natural habit in time

Speaking of which, i've switched from a petrol to diesell car for practice, the diesel reduces that prob that you highlighted there, i feel like i'm freaking cheating using a diesel car cause its so easy to control and the there's isn't a need to execute a fine balance of cluth/accelarator control. Bring clutch to half way (instead of the usual 80% up or so) and it's enough. Car remains stationary and switch from brake to accelator is simply a quick slide and press
(Not to mention, this thing has power, if i'm not paying attention the car drives away from me) xD
I'll get used to it, just hope i don't totally lose the knack for driving a petrol car too.
Yep. I knew all about those. But, what I was emphasizing on was the fact that not everyone sees cars as more than simply a tool of sorts that will take them from point A to point B. They just want an ease of use car that will provide the least amount of hassle, hence automatics, especially in the road conditions that I described, which is common occurrence here.

But, unlike other...what I call "lazy"... people, I see my car as more than something that will take me from point A to point B, so of course I forced myself to learn how to compensate and quickly react in such dangerous situations.
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Old 2008-08-30, 05:30   Link #123
Mystique
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(off topic - your avatar never ceases to amuse me) xD
I know, it depends on
1: what people are already used to and what is commonly available
2: What the role of a car is to them and their attitudes to cars in general.

I just feel like I gotta stand up for manuals here, lol, before someone who doesn't know better reads your post and goes 'yeeeeeeeah' xD
(Well then, in UK where the weather is crap, we have hills all over and most cars are manual, this is how life is lived over there)
Was the reason I stepped in.
I just have a passion for manual cars that makes me think those who only have skills for an automatic are missing out big time, I dunno...
It's probably the same way a manga reader feels on an anime series, when i only watch the anime, they know a lot more depth to the entire thing cause of the manga in addition.
While i don't know any better, so i tend not to care, I know i'm limiting myself from experiencing something more.
I can jump in an automatic and think it piss easy.
An automatic person will jump in a manual... and be screwed (or struggle really really badly)
In other words, they'll need someone to drive for them or find an alternative, i don't think many people would wanna place their lives in danger if their skills aren't enough.

And then there's that rush and fun of driving off with all the gear changing and concentration that's needed and other lil tricks you can do with this machine, I like having control and relying on my own skills rather than leaving it to electronics for convenience sake. The day i learnt to keep a car stationary on a really sharp hill and not let it roll back with my own two feet, my confidence grew a lot. Started rambling onto my driver friends on how i can keep a car still on hills, was well chuffed for the day.
(then again, its kinda technically part of our exam anyways)

Once in a while is probably okay for auto use, then it'd feel like a treat to me but for most part, manual all the way
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Old 2008-08-30, 05:49   Link #124
Zoned87
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Automatics have been around a long time, I seen a 1952 chevrolet car that had it... Although im not quite sure how it worked on models that old. (no electronics)
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Old 2008-08-30, 07:17   Link #125
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Automatics are death

the end XD

overall, tiptronic transmissions are the future, but autos are just bad, torque converter eats up power, just blech
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Old 2008-08-30, 07:20   Link #126
Zoned87
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The Powerglide was the first mass produced automatic transmission, general motors introduced it in 1950, it was only a 2 speed.

Great for city driving, and highway but a decent deal of power was lost over its manual version and not good for any type of vehicle looking to race or go off road.

They were later improved with 3-4 speeds which made more use of torque
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Old 2008-08-30, 12:28   Link #127
Superchop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya View Post
Imagine your vehicle stopped on a 45 degree (or more) sloped road that's a mixture of ice and snow because you're waiting, along with a line of other cars, for the light to turn green. Now, when it turns green, you have to quickly switch your right foot to the gas and synchronize your right foot pressing the gas pedal while your left foot releases the clutch pedal. And you can't let a second pass by during the transition of your right foot from the brake pedal to the gas pedal without running the risk of the vehicle rolling backwards. Not only that, if you hit the gas too hard too fast, the sudden rotation of the tires will cause friction between the surface of the ice/snow and the tires. This means that it doesn't move and simply slips, which means your car has a high chance of slipping backwards, rear-ending someone.
You know, it's funny you mention that. When I bought my manual car the first thing my father told me was that i'd have to learn to keep the car steady on inclines. I'm not sure what the term really is in any other language but mine but i guess it's called "balancing the clutch".

When i first started driving it all i saw was people rocking back and forth with their cars cause they wouldn't hold the brake and they couldn't keep it steady with just the clutch. Nowadays all i see is people hold the brake and let the car fall back a bit then take off. I personally never felt comfortable letting the car fall back just cause at stop lights people like to really be on each other's ass. So i've always had the clutch to the point where it would keep the car steady on an incline and not use the brake (only use the gas if it's a real steep incline). And that's something i rarely see nowadays when i drive around.

As far as manuals being more dangerous...I really don't see how it's any more dangerous then an auto in the same conditions. On snow covered roads it's more likely that an automatic will spin the tires taking off then a manual in the same conditions. With auto's you don't have as precise control over taking off as you do in a manual. I've put my car in 2nd gear and take off slowly everytime and i have never once had a problem being stuck...but on the opposite end whenever i move my sister's or mother's cars...i will always spin the tires and not get the car out as easily.

Also, people don't really realize it but tires do play a big role in the winter and any other season for that matter. I've driven in the winter in some deep snow on summer tires...it was not fun and it was extremely dangerous. Ever since I put on winter tires my car has felt like it was on rails going through the snow and not once have i ever got stuck....not on snow and not on ice patches in the road.
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Old 2008-08-30, 12:57   Link #128
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superchop View Post
You know, it's funny you mention that. When I bought my manual car the first thing my father told me was that i'd have to learn to keep the car steady on inclines. I'm not sure what the term really is in any other language but mine but i guess it's called "balancing the clutch".

When i first started driving it all i saw was people rocking back and forth with their cars cause they wouldn't hold the brake and they couldn't keep it steady with just the clutch. Nowadays all i see is people hold the brake and let the car fall back a bit then take off. I personally never felt comfortable letting the car fall back just cause at stop lights people like to really be on each other's ass. So i've always had the clutch to the point where it would keep the car steady on an incline and not use the brake (only use the gas if it's a real steep incline). And that's something i rarely see nowadays when i drive around.
Keeping the car steady by balancing the clutch and gas is certainly possible, but is not the best option. There is no reason to do so - it is called handbrake, use it With that there is no need to hold down the brake, and both your feet are free to manipulate clutch and gas when you have to start moving - Steadily release clutch while doing the reverse with gas, releasing handbrake at the same time. This will prevent you from slipping backwards and removes the need to quickly switch your foot between brake/clutch. (Unless you are confident in your ability to do so in satisfactory speed).

Quote:
Also, people don't really realize it but tires do play a big role in the winter and any other season for that matter. I've driven in the winter in some deep snow on summer tires...it was not fun and it was extremely dangerous. Ever since I put on winter tires my car has felt like it was on rails going through the snow and not once have i ever got stuck....not on snow and not on ice patches in the road.
This is very true, tires play a big role when it comes to keeping your car steady. Even in summer you can feel the difference in grip if you ever execute any sharper turns. During winter i would rather walk than drive with summer tires ... it can be a plain suicide, the breaking path increases so drastically it is simply not reasonable to attempt such a stunt. Better safe than sorry is never more at home than here.
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Old 2008-08-30, 13:10   Link #129
Deathkillz
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Here it is called "riding the clutch" and supposidly to be bad for your car if you do it often because of how the clutch plates will wear away overtime.

Actually using the method with the handbrakes, clutch and gas pedals is the proper way to do things and over time it would just become natural without you thinking about it (like breathing ^^), even though at first when you first learn to drive with a manual it is a lot of hassle to juggle with.
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Old 2008-08-30, 13:10   Link #130
Superchop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Keeping the car steady by balancing the clutch and gas is certainly possible, but is not the best option. There is no reason to do so - it is called handbrake, use it With that there is no need to hold down the brake, and both your feet are free to manipulate clutch and gas when you have to start moving - Steadily release clutch while doing the reverse with gas, releasing handbrake at the same time. This will prevent you from slipping backwards and removes the need to quickly switch your foot between brake/clutch. (Unless you are confident in your ability to do so in satisfactory speed).
Lol, you know...i never could get the hang of that....I've tried it a couple times but every time the light would turn green I would either freak out and forget i had the ebrake up or I just couldn't synchronize myself enough to make a clean start. I've personally gotten used to just balancing the clutch since it was just that much easier for me. The inclines around where i live aren't that bad so i never have to hold the gas down. It may not be the best, but being told and taught to do it that way i've just gotten accustomed to it and i just let it happen w/o even realizing it.

Quote:
This is very true, tires play a big role when it comes to keeping your car steady. Even in summer you can feel the difference in grip if you ever execute any sharper turns. During winter i would rather walk than drive with summer tires ... it can be a plain suicide, the breaking path increases so drastically it is simply not reasonable to attempt such a stunt. Better safe than sorry is never more at home than here.
Yeah...lol I blame the dealer for not telling me the car had summer tires...and i blame myself for not paying enough attention to realize it. During the winter I couldn't make it up even a slight incline with those tires...my car would always fall back when i reached halfway up the hill...then all it would do is spin the tires as i fell back. Even feathering the clutch and my traction control working overtime i still couldn't chug forward. Summer tires in the winter FTMFL! Luckily for me after that whole scenario i decided to educate myself and decided that spending a bit of extra money on winter tires is definately worth my while. Since then i've had no regrets.
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Old 2008-08-30, 22:45   Link #131
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Balancing the clutch is something that comes with practice, just like driving. Driving is mostly reflex and instinct especially after you been at the wheel for a few years and most accidents occur when those 2 fails.

I usually balance the clutch when it's just a short wait and i m too lazy to do the proper handbrake stop. But it's leg cramping if i m stuck in a slow moving traffic up a hill with a stiff clutch pedal >.> whoever invented sport clutch should DIAF.
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Old 2008-08-31, 00:20   Link #132
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haha my dad MADE me learn how to stop a car on a VERY steep hill (steep as in, at least 30+% he had me let my car ROLL BACK about 20 feet, then STOP the car with the CLUTCH ONLY. this was in a bone stock 62 bug. I got real good at holding it on a hill and starting off after that. I can hold the brake, then ease off the clutch just enough to hold the car, let off the brake, and the car won't move.

also, in the snow manual MURDERS slushboxes. Oh? slippery surface? you need low gear? UPSHIFT SCREEEEEE
stupid slushbox.
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Old 2008-08-31, 01:51   Link #133
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Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post
also, in the snow manual MURDERS slushboxes. Oh? slippery surface? you need low gear? UPSHIFT SCREEEEEE
stupid slushbox.
It's, uhh, called throttle control; Learn to use that too...
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Old 2008-08-31, 08:37   Link #134
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well a little background

i first learned how to drive @ age 14 in my stepmoms manual accord in the mountains around i-70 (in colorado). Lets just say that it was fun yet scary at the time. i will agree, manuals are completely superior in ice and snow, im a ski instructor and have to drive in the snowy mountains all the times, its not even a comparison between 5 speed and auto. at least for mountains, idk other peoples opinions, but for me thats my personal experience.

And no, my love for initial d came after i was really into AutoX, not before...so i didnt even realize how badass my "learn to drive" story really was XD
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Old 2008-08-31, 09:01   Link #135
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Automatic transmission? What is that?

I've been in this country my whole life and I still haven't been on a single car that wasn't manual.
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Old 2008-08-31, 09:44   Link #136
Mystique
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Was curious about S.America, I'd had figured a lot of imports would have been from the US, thus auto trans cars, but yay for Argentina being manual mainly. xD
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Old 2008-08-31, 09:59   Link #137
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Automatic transmission? What is that?

I've been in this country my whole life and I still haven't been on a single car that wasn't manual.
You hick. It's time to crawl out of the stone ages and dump those Flintstone cars.
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Old 2008-08-31, 11:29   Link #138
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Wait till the smart smart cars come out. People will probably eat them up.
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Old 2008-08-31, 12:35   Link #139
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Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya View Post
Wait till the smart smart cars come out. People will probably eat them up.
What, cars that practically drive themselves?

Pfft...If something like BMW's iDrive pisses people off when it's controls are ergonomically driver unfriendly, then I highly doubt we'll see "I, Robot" cars and the such until a long time from now...
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Old 2008-08-31, 12:57   Link #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightViper88 View Post
What, cars that practically drive themselves?

Pfft...If something like BMW's iDrive pisses people off when it's controls are ergonomically driver unfriendly, then I highly doubt we'll see "I, Robot" cars and the such until a long time from now...
haha. I didn't say it was going to happen right away. But it would appear we're heading in that direction.
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