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Old 2014-12-31, 17:47   Link #1
Fizix
Worrying about biohazards
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
mobile theme and emojis

Why don't you have a mobile theme? I find the forum very awkward on smartphones. Im sure there are good mobile mods out there?


Also is there a reason why we can't use emoji's? (I feel naked without them)
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Old 2014-12-31, 18:22   Link #2
Solace
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Join Date: Mar 2006
We don't have a mobile version of the forums, sorry. It's filed under "when it happens".

Emoji's are a relatively recent thing (outside of Japan), but we don't offer much support for emoticons in general. I'm sure you've noticed that we run the forums with a fair amount of minimalism; we haven't embraced social media much, either.

/old school
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Old 2014-12-31, 18:34   Link #3
Fizix
Worrying about biohazards
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Thanks for the reply. Lol @ old school

I keep using emoji's through force of habit, I'll have to break out of it

Last edited by Fizix; 2014-12-31 at 19:35.
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Old 2015-01-01, 08:05   Link #4
NightWish
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Age: 35
Question

Posting emoji is possible, my signature has used one for the last six months:
🐾
They are just byte sequences like any other character after all... "😈". The problem would be how they look once posted. I believe they need to be supported by the browser and operating system used by the person viewing the post.

Edit: This post looks as expected in the versions of Firefox I've tried, but not Chrome.
Edit 2: Ah, at least it did until I edited the post in-line.
Edit 3: Fixable, so the editor rendering breaks the multi-byte characters. Something to add to the list of things to fix
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…to be bold, to be brave; it is the thinking that the heart can still be saved.
And the darkness can come quick. The danger's in the anger and the hanging on to it.
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Old 2015-01-14, 13:01   Link #5
Fizix
Worrying about biohazards
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Just noticed your reply.

For some reason when I've posted them on a phone (iphone and iPad) from the quick reply box, they appear as rectangles. �� (is it because its an inline editor?)

...

Yes ☺️ go advanced works. Nothing to do with the device. I won't flood your forum with them, promise 😏
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Old 2015-01-15, 09:07   Link #6
SeijiSensei
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Looking for our noses
Age: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWish View Post
Edit 3: Fixable, so the editor rendering breaks the multi-byte characters. Something to add to the list of things to fix
According to Firefox (Tools > Page Info), this page is encoded with the Windows-1252 character set. That seems an unusually restrictive choice for a site with a global audience like this one. Shouldn't you be using UTF-8? Wouldn't that be better for multi-byte characters?

I'm frankly surprised that the Windows-1252 character set is used at all. I thought the forums were hosted on Linux where UTF-8 is the norm. Before that the standard was ISO-8859-1, which I think was what the forums used when I first joined. Are you now using Windows as the hosting platform?
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Old 2015-01-15, 12:29   Link #7
NightWish
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For historical reasons the database is not all UTF-8 unfortunately and like many things we could do, converting it correctly is not something we've had the bandwidth to tackle. It works for the most part because no third party system accesses it so it is opaque.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Are you now using Windows as the hosting platform?
Nothing of the sort, but you're assuming the vBulletin software is doing something sensible... In fairness it is probably not interpreting the database collation at all and blindly sending out bytes as it is asked to.

The forum does have encoding configured in the style setting, and always has. It is, as you observed, ISO-8859-1. This goes with the old Latin 1 used by MySQL. Likewise the HTTP headers are the same, if you look at the traffic. So why Windows-1252? The difference is probably explained some auto-detect system in the browser seeing characters that would have been non-printing in ISO-8859-1 but are possible display characters in Windows-1252, such as €? That's just a guess.

Really we should be using UTF-8 end to end... but there are lots of things we could be doing.
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…to be bold, to be brave; it is the thinking that the heart can still be saved.
And the darkness can come quick. The danger's in the anger and the hanging on to it.

Last edited by NightWish; 2015-01-15 at 12:45.
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Old 2015-01-16, 10:28   Link #8
Fizix
Worrying about biohazards
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
But why does that lead to some editors on the site screwing the character set and others not? (thats whats happening right)?

Also, can't vbulletin convert character sets as a background task? That wouldn't hog your bandwidth out, it would add some load while it did it, but not bandwidth.
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Old 2015-01-16, 11:10   Link #9
NightWish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizix View Post
why do ... some editors ... screw... the character set... ?
Presumably because they handle content differently. There are three editor modes (simple text, simple text with some extra script controlled buttons, and a nearly functional WYSIWYG editor) and five post methods (new thread, new reply, quick reply, edit post and the in-line edit). That is at least 15 combinations. There could be subtle differences between how each interacts with some given content. In addition there is the added complication of BB code handling; depending on which codes are used content might go through different filters and such like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizix View Post
Also, can't vbulletin convert character sets as a background task? That wouldn't hog your bandwidth out, it would add some load while it did it, but not bandwidth.
Bandwidth in the "capacity to transfer data" sense isn't what I meant. By bandwidth I mean the human "energy or mental capacity required to deal with a situation" sense. i.e. the staff haven't found the time. If all it took was a background conversion from one type to another it wouldn't be too hard, but in reality the problem isn't the mechanics of the conversion itself.

The problem is knowing which conversion to apply and making sure the process doesn't lose information. The database isn't massive compared to what I deal with in my day job (only about 10 GB) but making sure a given post's current uncontrolled encoding fits into another given controlled encoding is non-trivial. It requires investigation, trial conversion, etc. all of which must to be done off-line first. Basically it isn't a quick or push-button job.
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…to be bold, to be brave; it is the thinking that the heart can still be saved.
And the darkness can come quick. The danger's in the anger and the hanging on to it.
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Old 2015-01-16, 11:27   Link #10
Fizix
Worrying about biohazards
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Ah I see, I suppose as its a non commercial site it's a little more difficult to get stuff like that done.
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