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Old 2005-01-01, 20:28   Link #21
AlphaBeta
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaver4k
It works some times. Probaly the US is going to sucker Canada into ICBM Missile defance.



Here in America, over the past two decades the Prime Ministers / Presidents are @%$%@^$@%$&@%^!!!!!
For example: Brian Mulroney, Bush, etc.

Putting Bush in charge is like giving a gun to a baby.
Please don't hate, Bush followers.


Four more years, four more years, four more years,...
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Old 2005-01-02, 09:54   Link #22
diane256
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Dang it!

I looked but couldn't find the links

So once again, Downloading leagle. uploading illeagle correct?
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Old 2005-01-02, 13:33   Link #23
HopelessLover
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by zappater
They have been attacked by sega in the uk, and by some Swedish companies.
It went just as with the American ones.

LoL that's not the half of it. Check out the rest:

Spoiler:
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Old 2005-01-02, 22:08   Link #24
LynnieS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diane256
Dang it!

I looked but couldn't find the links

So once again, Downloading leagle. uploading illeagle correct?
I think that's the way the Canadian courts have ruled it for music - leaching is legal, but sharing isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover[/quote
LoL that's not the half of it. Check out the rest:
Wait. So the PB boys are using Varumarkeslag 1960:644 as their defense? I have yet to find a version of Sweden's laws on-line and in English; the database listed in Google doesn't look to be up, but that 1960, it predates the mass acceptance of the Internet by, what, 30+ years?

It predates Sweden's joining the EU by 35 years.

It predates Sweden's joining of the WTO by 35 years.

Hell, it's probably older than most everyone on the AS forums! Can't they come up with something, I don't know, a bit more recent and less likely to be changed/replaced by something else?

If this article is correct, Svensklag 1998:112 does place an obligation on the ISP to remove anything that affects copyright.

Quote:
2. it is obvious that the user has, by submitting the message, infringed on the copyright or other right protected by section 5 in the law about copyright to literary and artistic work.
It doesn't say anything about only protecting the rights of Swedes only, and I suspect that other EU countries will be very upset if it did. Is there something more recent than this?

Has the Swedish Personal Registry law been changed also since 1999? There are exemptions to protect journalists, but PB isn't a journalistic site.

From http://www.dsv.su.se/~jpalme/society/personal-register-law.html:

Quote:
The Swedish parliament has in November 1999 decided some modifications to the law in reaction to the critics it has received. The changes are that minor violations of the law will not be punished. Damage may however have to be paid also for minor violations of the law. Another change is that personal information can be exported, provided that the recipient upholds reasonable privacy control.
What's being said - and posted publically by them - isn't really minor, IMHO; the damage done to reputations, though, ugh, that might get really ugly.

I have to say, the PB guys have great big brass ones, but I hope they have more than just one cite to trot out; the lawyers will cut them off with a spoon if not.

( Studying Swedish law - or law in general - gives me a headache...)
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Old 2005-01-02, 22:25   Link #25
HopelessLover
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Actually, Piratebay knows that with a good sum of time in court just might lead to some laws being changed to stop them from hosting said materials of said companies. But they also know that this proccess takes YEARS. By the time a court case happens, and a verdict is given, piratebay probably would have moved on to something else or just be non-exsistant.
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Old 2005-01-03, 01:30   Link #26
LynnieS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover
Actually, Piratebay knows that with a good sum of time in court just might lead to some laws being changed to stop them from hosting said materials of said companies. But they also know that this proccess takes YEARS. By the time a court case happens, and a verdict is given, piratebay probably would have moved on to something else or just be non-exsistant.
The 1998 Swedish law should already be in place to stop PB, I would expect, and there should be more recent changes to the Svensklag due to Sweden having joined the EU and the WTO. There are recent texts on subjects like intellectual property, information technology, and consumer laws dating back to the late 90's/early 00's, so something would be available. Laws don't normally remain unchanged, especially after 40+ years.

Criminal cases, I don't think that this is going to be one, but I could be wrong; the penalty for violating personal data laws was supposed to be 2 years in prison, and the Swedish version was supposed to follow the EU one. Any EU lawyers here who can actually do an investigation (pro bono please ), and not just vomit up web-based information and hearsay? I hate it when people do that, but it's not like I have the law resources to do the research.

There might be a civil judgement, though, and those can go through the courts really quickly. Given the last group PB insulted received an e-mail in late December, there might be something happening in the next few months, if it was to happen. Since they treated their fellow Swedes the same way (good grief), even an ultranationalistic judge in the Swedish courts will, IMHO, not treat them well.
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Old 2005-01-03, 09:07   Link #27
Ending
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For all people who have not yet seen a real SUED-paper (made from the skins of innocent virgins, by the way), here is one; it costs only 30,000 bucks per MONTH. Who said paper is cheap?


But hey; it's always nice to know that there ARE worse countries to live in than Finland.

*Goes off to put up his own tracker*
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Old 2005-01-03, 15:48   Link #28
Reaver4k
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Bah, That paper is made from the skins on 3rd world Children
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Old 2005-01-03, 16:57   Link #29
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpaa lawyers
Because we do not currently know the names of all the individuals responsible for operating this website and BitTorrent tracker, we have initially filed the suit against "Does 1-10".
I may be mistaken, but aren't these types of lawsuits illegal? Isn't it kind of required to name a defendent? Of course I'm not a lawyer, so there's a good chance I'm wrong.
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Old 2005-01-03, 18:45   Link #30
Ending
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Well, if the letter was posted, received, and published, you can bet that they know the real name too. But it's nice to see that LokiTorrent has *actually* managed to rise a whopping 30,000 bucks already and at least has a chance to stand up against them even though it seems hopeless, considering that these kind of cases take years to end and the only winner is the corrupted law-system (notice the lack of word "justice").

Next the webmaster takes that looong delayed summer vacation to Hawaii, preferably to "unknown" location. Hell, I would take the money, buy a new server, and move out from US to save myself from the headache.
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Old 2005-01-03, 19:35   Link #31
microlith
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I don't see what the big fuss is.

Why are a bunch of people who are effectively aiding and abetting copyright violation being treated like a bunch of folk heroes?

I can't honestly see anything they've done that's worthy of praise.

But yeah, lokitorrent ignoring the C&D shows they have balls, when the suit proceeds the plaintiffs can show bad faith on lokitorrent's behalf, since they were told to stop and didn't.

What's worse is that the MPAA could easily show that they profited from the exchange of copyrighted materials via the advertising all over the site, using the torrents as a draw to garner them profits.

And the attitude expressed by The Pirates Bay will only doom them in court, since they're acting in bad faith openly. Arrogance and hubris will be the end of them.
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Old 2005-01-03, 19:54   Link #32
HopelessLover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microlith
I can't honestly see anything they've done that's worthy of praise.

Their going agianst "the man". That's more enough a reason to praise them
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Old 2005-01-04, 00:49   Link #33
LynnieS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
I may be mistaken, but aren't these types of lawsuits illegal? Isn't it kind of required to name a defendent? Of course I'm not a lawyer, so there's a good chance I'm wrong.
I believe that this is permissible currently. The next step is, if I remember correctly, for them to contact the ISPs to get the actual names and then amend the civil suit afterwards.

30K USD is nothing but a drop in the bucket. You're going to need lawyers to offer their work pro bono, I suspect, as well as raise a lot more money to cover the judgement.

And if microlith's guess on the direction this can go (the whole profiting from pirated works) is right, that could be really ugly. The last case from a few months ago I heard of that involved a civil judgement against someone profiting from pirated movies went against him; the L.A. judge handed down, what, a $23.8 million judgement against the chap who ran Film88.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirhe
Next the webmaster takes that looong delayed summer vacation to Hawaii, preferably to "unknown" location. Hell, I would take the money, buy a new server, and move out from US to save myself from the headache.
ROTFL. They'll still get you one way or another. Not to mention you'll be considered now to be a flight risk, have your passport taken away, and be held.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover
Their going agianst "the man". That's more enough a reason to praise them
ROTFLMAO. Why do I get the feeling that they (PB, LT, and all) are not doing this for "the betterment and benefit of mankind"?
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Currently playing: "Quest of D", "Border Break" and "Gundam Senjou no Kizuna".
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Old 2005-01-04, 01:03   Link #34
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microlith
And the attitude expressed by The Pirates Bay will only doom them in court, since they're acting in bad faith openly. Arrogance and hubris will be the end of them.
They aren't doing anything illegal in their country
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Old 2005-01-04, 02:28   Link #35
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnieS
I believe that this is permissible currently. The next step is, if I remember correctly, for them to contact the ISPs to get the actual names and then amend the civil suit afterwards.
I could have sworn a judge ruled that these type of lawsuits were illegal and these companies had to get the actual names first. Of course such a decision could have been reversed, or I could have misread some article. It's also possible I dreamed the whole thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
They aren't doing anything illegal in their country
If the links LynnieS posted are correct, then it would seem they are doing something illegal in their country. Even if they aren't, they can still be sued in england or the US. Sure they act like they're safe, but the people at piratebay probably know as much about law as I do, and most of my knowledge comes from watching law and order on tv. I doubt they consulted a lawyer of any kind, even the one passed out drunk in an alley they mention. One day they're going to get a very nasty surprise in the mail.
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Old 2005-01-04, 03:21   Link #36
zappater
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Actually as far as I know, they have at least some sort of contact to lawyers.
And how would they be sued in US or anyother country then Sweden?
The people who runs PB is swedish, the server is in Sweden, the ISP is swedish, they are all under swedish law.

Kamui4356 if they can be sued in any other country then sweden, that means that if someone does something legal in one country that is illegal in another country they can be sued/put in jail in that country.

And what they are doing is legal, thou it is decided that a law that will make things like this illegal shall come some time during spring/early summer.
But that law has been so much delayed that everyone just expects it to be even more delayed. (Should have been decided about that law during spring 2004 I think.)
(not totally sure thou.)
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Old 2005-01-04, 03:48   Link #37
Kamui4356
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by zappater
Actually as far as I know, they have at least some sort of contact to lawyers.
And how would they be sued in US or anyother country then Sweden?
The people who runs PB is swedish, the server is in Sweden, the ISP is swedish, they are all under swedish law.

Kamui4356 if they can be sued in any other country then sweden, that means that if someone does something legal in one country that is illegal in another country they can be sued/put in jail in that country.

And what they are doing is legal, thou it is decided that a law that will make things like this illegal shall come some time during spring/early summer.
But that law has been so much delayed that everyone just expects it to be even more delayed. (Should have been decided about that law during spring 2004 I think.)
(not totally sure thou.)
Yes, that's exactly right. However, it's up to the country they live in to decide whether or not to enforce the judgement. There have been cases of that happening actually. I'm not sure of any involving something as trivial as this though so it might not apply. There is a very good chance that the swedish government would enforce the ruling in such a lawsuit. I see no reason why they wouldn't.
If it's some insane thing, like websites being illegal in one country and they sue someone in another, the second country would just laugh. Something legit like this, however, would normally be enforced, unless the country in question is ultra nationalistic or just doesn't care.
But as I said, most of my legal knowledge comes from watching tv.
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Old 2005-01-04, 06:01   Link #38
zappater
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Really you can't be arrested and brought to the UK if you are doing something in sweden that is legal in sweden but is illegal in the UK.
The law system would just collapse if it was like that.
Just coming to think of how many cases there could be because someone in sweden is walk straight over someone others land without any type of permisson wich from what I have understood is illegal in USA, but legal in Sweden.
Man probably everybody in Sweden could be sued in USA for doing that then.
(Bless Allemansrštten!)
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Old 2005-01-04, 06:37   Link #39
Ending
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The problem isn't that they were sued, but the system itself. Only a few people can raise such amounts of money simply to defend their rights that should be theirs even without the money. MPAA is a rich company that has the support of big, big companies like Disney and Paramount, so it is no wonder that *80%* of cases like this end to their favour and probably more that never end to court. You call that justice? I call it corruption.
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Old 2005-01-04, 06:45   Link #40
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by zappater
Really you can't be arrested and brought to the UK if you are doing something in sweden that is legal in sweden but is illegal in the UK.
The law system would just collapse if it was like that.
Just coming to think of how many cases there could be because someone in sweden is walk straight over someone others land without any type of permisson wich from what I have understood is illegal in USA, but legal in Sweden.
Man probably everybody in Sweden could be sued in USA for doing that then.
(Bless Allemansrštten!)
Hmm, let's see if I can explain this better.
Let's say I made a movie here in the US. You run a server in Sweden and make it available via bt. People in the US download the movie from your server. Even though your server is based in Sweden and you never set foot in the US, you're violating the copyright by providing a service to the people in the US. As such I can sue you under US law, in a US court. If I win the case, any assets you may have in the US can be seized. If you have none, or it's not enough to cover the judgement, it's now up to the swedish court to decide whether or not to uphold the judgement. They can say the ruling is unfair or doesn't stand up to the legal standards of Swedish law and chose to not enforce the it. Likewise, they can decide to uphold the ruling and make you pay.
At least this is my understanding of how it works in these situations. It would be good if someone with actual legal knowledge could settle this debate.
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