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Old 2008-02-17, 20:07   Link #221
ellifeedn
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While a whale-shark does give an intimidating appearance (what with its huge size and mouth), it is not a predator and Jimbei will then have to rely only on raw strength. I have an idea that he could be a hybrid fishman that could be part whale-shark and part some other fish. It's too early to guess, but if he is a hybrid I would vote for part angler cause they're cool.
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Old 2008-02-17, 21:33   Link #222
james0246
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Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
While a whale-shark does give an intimidating appearance (what with its huge size and mouth), it is not a predator and Jimbei will then have to rely only on raw strength. I have an idea that he could be a hybrid fishman that could be part whale-shark and part some other fish. It's too early to guess, but if he is a hybrid I would vote for part angler cause they're cool.
Well the whole whale-shark angle come from the japanese "jinbei-zame" which translates to whale shark. That is more or less why most fans think he is going to be some sort of whale-shark. You are right, though, a whale-shark is not a predator. But, Shipwright Tom, Franky's teacher, was only a Puffer Fishman, and he was arguably stronger than Arlong (or at least he is able to single-handedly lift a galleon sized ship by himself), so it could be that the 'gentler' sea-creatures are in fact the stronger (this doesn't make much sense, though, and seems evolutionaryly backwards ).

Here is the little bit of extra info we know about Jinbei. He was the only Merman crew on the Grand Line, and he, and his men, followed the same racsist propoganda that Arlong sprouted: Merman/Fishmen are superior becuase they can live on the land and the sea; they all have super strength; etc.. Also, Jinbei became a Shichibukai 8 years ago (from the current events), afterwords Arlong left to go to East Blue to re-start the pirate crew.

And that is all we know...
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Old 2008-02-18, 14:20   Link #223
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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If Jimbei really does turn out to be a merman, I really don't want him to end up having a devil fruit. If he does have a devil fruit, he would lose the best asset that the merman species possess, which is the ability to fight underwater, and that would be silly. The ocean is the ideal and most advantageous battleground for the merman species. Imagine how strong Jimbei, a warlord, would be underwater. There is probably no one in the one piece universe that can match his physical might in the ocean. I want Jimbei to just be ridiculously strong without a devil fruit and show why exactly the merman species completely outclasses all other species in the ocean. I feel that there are already enough devil fruit users in the shichibukai. He should be a nice contrast from the rest of the warlords.
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Old 2008-02-18, 14:30   Link #224
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If Jimbei really does turn out to be a merman, I really don't want him to end up having a devil fruit. If he does have a devil fruit, he would lose the best asset that the merman species possess, which is the ability to fight underwater, and that would be silly. The ocean is the ideal and most advantageous battleground for the merman species. Imagine how strong Jimbei, a warlord, would be underwater. There is probably no one in the one piece universe that can match his physical might in the ocean. I want Jimbei to just be ridiculously strong without a devil fruit and show why exactly the merman species completely outclasses all other species in the ocean. I feel that there are already enough devil fruit users in the shichibukai. He should be a nice contrast from the rest of the warlords.
Yeah, I definetly want Mihawk and Jinbei to have no devil fruit abilities. Jinbei is, as you said, arguably the physically strongest of all the characters we have heard about. So, as I said to you (Blackbeard D. Kuma), the only way that Luffy is going to be able to beat Blackbeard, is if he can first defeat Jinbei. Luffy needs that 'level-up' in order to hurt Blackbeard.
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Old 2008-02-18, 14:44   Link #225
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Yeah, I definetly want Mihawk and Jinbei to have no devil fruit abilities. Jinbei is, as you said, arguably the physically strongest of all the characters we have heard about. So, as I said to you (Blackbeard D. Kuma), the only way that Luffy is going to be able to beat Blackbeard, is if he can first defeat Jinbei. Luffy needs that 'level-up' in order to hurt Blackbeard.
Absolutely. If Luffy does end up being the one to defeat Jimbei, it just might give the sufficient strength needed for him to massively damage Blackbeard. We have all been waiting so long to see Jimbei and I hope he is a really promising villain. I want to see Jimbei already!!

Here is a question for everybody. What do you all speculate Jimbei's former bounty will be? Personally, I will not be surprised if it is lower than Kuma's. There is a big gap in bounty between Kuma (296 million) and Crocodile (81 million), so it might make sense if his bounty was to fit somewhere in between there. Then again, even if Jimbei's bounty is lower than Kuma's, it won't necessarily mean that he is weaker than the warlords who have higher former bounties than him.
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Old 2008-02-18, 14:52   Link #226
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Here is a question for everybody. What do you all speculate Jimbei's former bounty will be? Personally, I will not be surprised if it is lower than Kuma's. There is a big gap in bounty between Kuma (296 million) and Crocodile (81 million), so it might make sense if his bounty was to fit somewhere in between there. Then again, even if Jimbei's bounty is lower than Kuma's, it won't necessarily mean that he is weaker than the warlords who have higher former bounties than him.
I don't know, Jinbei was a monstrous figure before he became a Shichibukai. He was like Arlong to an extreme. He supposedly conquered many Grand Line islands, with his entirely merman/fishmen crew. So, I expect that he will have a higher bounty that Moria. Hell, since we have not been surprised with a bounty for awhile, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a bounty over 400 million. If he had conquered several World Government islands I could see the Navy giving him a a truly awesome bounty.

Then again, it would also be cool if we could see a figure with only a 200 million bounty hit harder than Luffy's Gear 3rd. So, I could go either way.

Since Jinbei seems to be where Luffy and company are going next, I hope we do find out soon .
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Old 2008-02-26, 00:12   Link #227
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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So far in the story, two out of the eight warlords have been defeated and both have fought to their utmost potential. These two warlords are Crocodile and Gecko Moria. Now, between these two warlords, who do you believe is actually stronger? In my opinion, I believe that Gecko Moria would win in a battle against Crocodile.

Gecko Moria has certainly shown that he can take far more physical damage than Crocodile can. He took a "nightmare pistol" directly to the face and a "nightmare storm" from nightmare luffy and he still managed to get up from these attacks. This is a truly impressive feat of resilience considering that nightmare luffy is arguably one of the strongest characters shown to us so far in the story. After all, Oz was absolutely no match for nightmare luffy. After getting up from nightmare luffy's attacks, Moria still had the will power to absorb 1000 shadows into his body, ultimately manifesting him into Nightmare Moria. After this, Luffy had to go beyond his current limits by amalgamating Gears 2 and 3 into probably his strongest attack yet; the giant jet shell.

Crocodile, on the other hand, was defeated by base luffy's gum gum storm. Once Crocodile's weakness was exploited, he was simply not in the same league as luffy in terms of both physical prowess and physical combat. To me, this was Crocodile's biggest problem. Sure he is a logia user and he was very proficient with his sand fruit, but once his weakness was discovered he was outclassed as a fighter.

If Moria was to fight Crocodile, he wouldn't have a hard time with him. Crocodile's speed is really not that great for he has shown that he is not that fast in a fight. If Crocodile attempted to suck Moria dry, Moria could just switch places with his doppleman and then steal Crocodile's shadow. Subsequently, once the sunlight comes up, Crocodile would be disintegrated. Also, Crocodile's weakness to water is very obvious to the point where anybody could discover it. Moria would definitely exploit his weakness very early on in the fight and then he would be able to physically damage Crocodile. In the end, Crocodile's chances of defeating Moria are very low and Moria holds the advantage in any situation.
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Old 2008-02-26, 04:40   Link #228
shankss
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So far in the story, two out of the eight warlords have been defeated and both have fought to their utmost potential. These two warlords are Crocodile and Gecko Moria. Now, between these two warlords, who do you believe is actually stronger? In my opinion, I believe that Gecko Moria would win in a battle against Crocodile.

Gecko Moria has certainly shown that he can take far more physical damage than Crocodile can. He took a "nightmare pistol" directly to the face and a "nightmare storm" from nightmare luffy and he still managed to get up from these attacks. This is a truly impressive feat of resilience considering that nightmare luffy is arguably one of the strongest characters shown to us so far in the story. After all, Oz was absolutely no match for nightmare luffy. After getting up from nightmare luffy's attacks, Moria still had the will power to absorb 1000 shadows into his body, ultimately manifesting him into Nightmare Moria. After this, Luffy had to go beyond his current limits by amalgamating Gears 2 and 3 into probably his strongest attack yet; the giant jet shell

I think Moria's abilities are nearly close to unlimited.He turned a paramecia into logia defense, we dont know the limits of Brick Bats (he may create a million shadow shards to stab his enemy from every direction) He was a lazy god, sadly he has been wasted as a pawn for Kuma's entry.
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Old 2008-02-28, 03:24   Link #229
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Can't really say for sure who the strongest is, though my gut feeling inclines towards Mihawk. He is afterall Zoro's Ultimate aim. zoro is definitely strong enough to take out Crocodile. I believe if he is fresh and healthy he can beat Kuma too.

Luffy will have to get strong enough to take on the might 4 emperors, so it only seems natural that zoro will get strong enough to at least take on the strongest of the schibukai ( Mihawk ). Though I also have a feeling the strongest might be the unnamed Merman (or was he one of the 4 emperors of the New World?).
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Old 2008-02-28, 18:21   Link #230
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Can't really say for sure who the strongest is, though my gut feeling inclines towards Mihawk. He is afterall Zoro's Ultimate aim. zoro is definitely strong enough to take out Crocodile. I believe if he is fresh and healthy he can beat Kuma too.

Luffy will have to get strong enough to take on the might 4 emperors, so it only seems natural that zoro will get strong enough to at least take on the strongest of the schibukai ( Mihawk ). Though I also have a feeling the strongest might be the unnamed Merman (or was he one of the 4 emperors of the New World?).
At this point in time, even if Zoro is fresh and healthy I doubt he can defeat Kuma. He did the attack that he finished off Mr. 1 with and it did absolutely no damage to Kuma. Zoro still has a while to go before he is on his level.

Also, besides Crocodile and Moria being evidently weaker than the four emperors, you make it sound like the four emperors are stronger than the remaining warlords. Mihawk is known to have been Shanks' rival in the past and he is still declared the greatest swordsman in the world. I would think that with the information we know about Mihawk and Shanks so far, that they are currently equal until proven otherwise. Kuma has shown that he is extremely powerful due to his pad fruit ability and his cybernetic enhancements. He laid all of the strawhats, sans luffy, to waste with little to no effort. From the little we have seen of Kuma so far, he is already far above Moria's level of strength and Moria pushed Luffy to unprecedented limits. Then we have Donflamingo, who is speculated to be a puppeteer, having the ability to control people's bodies. He has shown one of the cheapest abilities yet in the story, due to the fact that his victims can't do anything about his control over them. Blackbeard of course is going to at least be on par with Whitebeard and Shanks because of all the foreshadowing revolving around his ascension in power. He scarred Shanks before he ate the darkness fruit and now Shanks states that he may attempt to dethrone Whitebeard. Blackbeard has also stated that Whitebeard's era is over, furthermore foreshadowing that his defeat is inevitable at his hands. As for Jimbei (one of the 7 warlords) and the last unknown warlord, we have to see them in action before comparing them to the emperors.
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Old 2008-03-05, 03:21   Link #231
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Do you really believe that the seven warlords are equal in strength to the 4 emperors ? The shichibukai were after all created to balance power between the world government and the 4 emperors. Logically thinking 7 warlords with possible back up from world Government help balance out the power of four people. So it naturally goes that each of the 7 will be weaker than of those 4.

And regarding Shanks and Mihawk ... They never were rivals in the general sense. It was only stated that they duelled many times and when Shanks had both hands, his swordsmanship rivalled that of Mihawk. Mihawk now being the better swordsmen does not mean he is as strong as Shanks. Who knows what other powers Shanks is hiding? Shanks might lose to Mihawk in swordplay but not in an actual battle as Shanks most probably has a huge arsenal of techniques and powers to call upon.

Thats what seems pretty obvious to me. And Moria was not weak. Definitely on Par with Kuma. Remember Moria says to Kuma " Do you intend to fight me? I know all about your ability!" That means Moria was quite confident about taking on Kuma.

Now something new, I believe Blackbeard will prove to be a tougher opponent even than Kuma and Aokiji. Strawhats will eventually find something to counter Ice and over come Aokiji. Zoro will find a way to cut repel Kuma's repulsion and cut through the Cyborg.

But how do you handle gravity ? How do you counter it or cut through it?

I doubt Zoro will say " When I have beaten you, I will have become a man who can cut through darkness "

Just wanted some feedback.
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Old 2008-03-05, 04:04   Link #232
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all kuma can has to do to defeat moria is to attack him. his power wont have any effect on moria's shadow as shadows cant be blown away unless the physical object that the shadow is on top of gets blitzed.. but even that.. moria can still transfer shadows to other places and continue his attack towards kuma
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Old 2008-03-05, 11:11   Link #233
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Do you really believe that the seven warlords are equal in strength to the 4 emperors ? The shichibukai were after all created to balance power between the world government and the 4 emperors. Logically thinking 7 warlords with possible back up from world Government help balance out the power of four people. So it naturally goes that each of the 7 will be weaker than of those 4.

And regarding Shanks and Mihawk ... They never were rivals in the general sense. It was only stated that they duelled many times and when Shanks had both hands, his swordsmanship rivalled that of Mihawk. Mihawk now being the better swordsmen does not mean he is as strong as Shanks. Who knows what other powers Shanks is hiding? Shanks might lose to Mihawk in swordplay but not in an actual battle as Shanks most probably has a huge arsenal of techniques and powers to call upon.

Thats what seems pretty obvious to me. And Moria was not weak. Definitely on Par with Kuma. Remember Moria says to Kuma " Do you intend to fight me? I know all about your ability!" That means Moria was quite confident about taking on Kuma.
In terms of having political power in the one piece universe, the seven warlords are equal to the four emperors. All three of the world powers (marines, seven warlords, four emperors) share the same amount of political influence, hence why they are all equal and create a world balance. Also, I did not say that the seven warlords are equal in strength to the four emperors. I said that besides Crocodile and Gecko Moria, it is not yet safe to assume that the emperors are stronger than the remaining warlords left to fight. Furthermore, the four emperors alone do not possess power equivalent to that of the marines, shichibukai, and the world government combined. The four emperors have massive crews along side them, in which some of the crewmates within these crews are arguably on shichibukai or high ranked marine level of strength. Examples of such crewmates are: Ace, Marco, Jozu, Ben Beckman, Lucky Roux, Yassop, etc. The four emperors combined with their crews have influential power equal to the marines and the shichibukai.

Forgive me for stating that Shanks and Mihawk used to be rivals. Thank you for correcting me on this because I often read stuff that I find out is misinterpreted from those SBS data books that Oda creates. Yes, I do agree with you that just because Mihawk is the greatest swordsman in the world, it doesn't necessarily mean that he stronger than Shanks overall. Sword fighting may not be Shanks' primary fighting style. However, it is still not the time to declare who is stronger between these two because we have yet to see their fullest fighting capabilities.

I am going to have to disagree with you that Moria is on par with Kuma. Just because Moria knew how Kuma's ability works it doesn't mean that he can defeat him. If you compare Kuma's pad fruit ability to Moria's shadow fruit ability, the pad fruit is vastly superior. How would Moria even be able to touch Kuma? Kuma is so much faster because he can propel himself to move at light speeds, a feat of speed that is far greater than what Moria has shown us. Kuma is also in much better physical shape as a fighter. Remember how Moria was struggling and feeling pain inside Oz when Robin grabbed him with her ability? If he didn't switch places with his doppleman he would've been dead. For Kuma on the other hand, he took a direct kick to the face from Sanji, while he was caught off guard mind you, meaning that he took the full brunt of Sanji's kick, and yet no damage at all was done on Kuma. Zoro also used the move he did on Mr. 1 to cut steel and it also did no damage on Kuma. These feats of resilience are definitely more impressive than Moria struggling against Robin's ability. Also, if Kuma uses his pressure cannons on Moria, it is over for him. Moria does not have light speed reflexes to dodge these attacks and one of these pressure cannons alone will do plenty of damage considering that they rip right through the victim's body. Finally, we have Kuma's pressure bomb attack that destroys everything in sight. How would Moria get away from this?
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Old 2008-03-06, 00:36   Link #234
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But how do you handle gravity ? How do you counter it or cut through it?
you hit it... really really hard... just like you would anything else...

Blackbeard has made it clear that, even though his power is a logia type, he takes damage just like any other person... He can't let it pass by because gravity can't let anything pass by... If you punch blackbeard, if you cut him, stab him, shoot him, or anything like that he WILL feel it and he WILL take the damage. To beat blackbeard all you got to do his hit like you would anyone else... the only question is how much of a beating Blackbeard can take before he goes down (so far, it seems like he can take A LOT of damage)
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Old 2008-03-29, 18:56   Link #235
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Okay everyone. I have a question to ask you all and it concerns Gecko Moria and Rob Lucci. Who do you think would win in a fight between Gecko Moria and Rob Lucci? I have a few friends of mine that believe Lucci would be able to defeat Moria, but I personally believe that Moria would win. Here are my following reasons.

1) Lucci is a member of the CP9, whereas Moria is one of the seven warlords. Obviously, the CP9 are not in the same tier of strength as the seven warlords, otherwise they would be one of the three world powers.

2) Lucci was defeated by a Gear 2 Jet Gattling Gun while Moria still managed to get up from a Nightmare Storm. From what we saw of Nightmare Luffy, he is definitely far stronger than Gear 2 Luffy considering the fact that he effortlessly beat down Oz alone. Gear 2 Luffy needed the help of his whole crew to defeat Oz. Furthermore, it took a combination of Gear 2 and 3 to defeat Moria.

3) Moria can send out Doppleman to deal with Lucci and while Lucci is distracted, Moria can extract the shadow out of his body. This will result in an instant KO and if the sun is up Lucci is going to get disintegrated.
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Old 2008-03-29, 19:14   Link #236
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1) Lucci is a member of the CP9, whereas Moria is one of the seven warlords. Obviously, the CP9 are not in the same tier of strength as the seven warlords, otherwise they would be one of the three world powers.
Moria and Kuma spoke of Lucci's skills as if they were definetly on par with the Shichibukai. Additionally, the CP9 were directly working for the world government which is one of the three world powers (World Government (composed of Marines, CP organization, and presumably an army), Shichibukai, and Yonkou).

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2) Lucci was defeated by a Gear 2 Jet Gattling Gun while Moria still managed to get up from a Nightmare Storm. From what we saw of Nightmare Luffy, he is definitely far stronger than Gear 2 Luffy considering the fact that he effortlessly beat down Oz alone. Gear 2 Luffy needed the help of his whole crew to defeat Oz. Furthermore, it took a combination of Gear 2 and 3 to defeat Moria.
The Nightmare attack was not really aimed at Moria, in fact, I think Moria was only hit once, and was then knocked out by Oz falling. That is not to say that Nightmare Luffy couldn't have destroyed Moria, hell Nightmare Luffy could have probably destroyed Kuma with some ease. Nightmare Luffy was ridiculously overpowered.

Rather, it took a true combination of Gear 2 and 3 to defeat Moster/Demon Moria (the big version), which is marginally more than what it took to defeat Lucci. Added to this, though, Lucci took a great deal more attacks to take down than Moria (who more or less fell after two or so barrages of attacks). So, it is hard to say if Moria was actually stronger than Lucci, in this respect.

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3) Moria can send out Doppleman to deal with Lucci and while Lucci is distracted, Moria can extract the shadow out of his body. This will result in an instant KO and if the sun is up Lucci is going to get disintegrated.
Completely agree. Lucci certainly can beat Moria with speed, but Moria can win with technique. It would be an interesting fight, that is for sure, and I do give the odds to Moria, but I am not willing to cut Lucci down just yet.
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Old 2008-03-29, 20:46   Link #237
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Moria and Kuma spoke of Lucci's skills as if they were definetly on par with the Shichibukai. Additionally, the CP9 were directly working for the world government which is one of the three world powers (World Government (composed of Marines, CP organization, and presumably an army), Shichibukai, and Yonkou).
The three world powers are the Marines, Shichibukai, and Yonkou. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall it being explicitly stated that the World Government is one of the three world powers. It is true that the marines and the shichibukai are affiliated with the World Government, but it was never said that the World Government is a power in itself. Garp even stated that only the Marines and Shichibukai exist to counterbalance the Yonkou. If anything, the opposition that the World Government faces are the Revolutionaries being led by Dragon. Both the World Government and the Revolutionaries are in direct contention with each other.

As for Kuma acknowledging the power of Lucci, this is certainly true. But I also think that Kuma said this for the reason that pirates as strong as the strawhats are seldom encountered on the grand line. The world government and shichibukai probably didn't expect pirates to exist on the grandline with the strawhats' level of strength. Because of this expectation, they were surprised to discover that a group of pirates was strong enough to overthrow the CP9. I think this is why Kuma said "who would've predicted that Rob Lucci of the CP9 would be defeated?". You are correct though. Kuma did make it sound like the shichibukai respect the level of power Lucci possesses. It's just that I don't see Lucci being in the same tier as the Shichibukai.

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The Nightmare attack was not really aimed at Moria, in fact, I think Moria was only hit once, and was then knocked out by Oz falling. That is not to say that Nightmare Luffy couldn't have destroyed Moria, hell Nightmare Luffy could have probably destroyed Kuma with some ease. Nightmare Luffy was ridiculously overpowered.
I know that he definitely got a Nightmare Pistol to the face and still managed to stay awake, but I am pretty sure there was a panel with Moria slouched over in pain as a whole bunch of fists are being thrown into the cockpit and Oz's stomach. Even if it was just a Nightmare pistol that hit Moria, that feat of resilience still beats Lucci blocking a Gear 3 giant pistol and nearly losing consciousness.

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Rather, it took a true combination of Gear 2 and 3 to defeat Moster/Demon Moria (the big version), which is marginally more than what it took to defeat Lucci. Added to this, though, Lucci took a great deal more attacks to take down than Moria (who more or less fell after two or so barrages of attacks). So, it is hard to say if Moria was actually stronger than Lucci, in this respect.
Longevity in battle doesn't necessarily have to do with resilience I feel. We have to remember that the sunrise did not permit the fight between Moria and Luffy to last that long. This was a fight where Luffy had to win as quickly as possible, so single attacks with pure concentrated power were the best way to finish off Moria given the circumstances.
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Old 2008-03-30, 14:59   Link #238
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If some people believe that Lucci can beat Moria, that is fine. The fight really could go either way, but I am more inclined to believe that Moria would be victorious. Out of the warlords we have seen so far, I think that Crocodile and Moria would be in the bottom tier of strength. Having said this, I feel that Lucci at most can only match up to the lower tier warlords (Crocodile and Moria). By the looks of it, there is no way that Lucci would be able to match up against the higher tier warlords like Mihawk, Doflamingo, and Kuma. This is something that I am quite certain everyone can agree on.
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Old 2008-04-01, 19:23   Link #239
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I think the last Shichibukai member will turn out to ether be someone with the name Monkey D. ??? in it or I think it will be funny if it would be Pandaman. The signs are all there with the animal names and so on. For story plot development I believe Oda might choose the Monkey D. ??? idea, but he likes to surprise his fans, so Pandaman is still an option. I also think the plot around Pandaman would fit. To start he is always on the run from tax collectors, so what is not to say that might be someone from the World Government trying to collect half of his booty! Also the pirate ship that attacked the rumba pirates in Brook's past had a pandas all over it!

Last edited by Paraden1989; 2008-04-02 at 14:09. Reason: spelling and to add a point.
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Old 2008-04-01, 22:13   Link #240
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
If some people believe that Lucci can beat Moria, that is fine. The fight really could go either way, but I am more inclined to believe that Moria would be victorious. Out of the warlords we have seen so far, I think that Crocodile and Moria would be in the bottom tier of strength. Having said this, I feel that Lucci at most can only match up to the lower tier warlords (Crocodile and Moria). By the looks of it, there is no way that Lucci would be able to match up against the higher tier warlords like Mihawk, Doflamingo, and Kuma. This is something that I am quite certain everyone can agree on.
Highly agreed!

Even though if for instance if Moria and Lucci had the opportunity to fight, Moria "might" have the upper hand in the battle due to his devil fruit ability " if he can think very quick in battle" that is. Like Lucci, Moria also posess lots of stamina to withstand lots of beatings. So the victor of that battle is really hard to tell.

Kuma on the other hand, Lucci absolutely stands no chance against him, seing that Kuma has the ability to do what is similar to Lucci's soru technique.
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