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Old 2010-01-20, 12:18   Link #441
Kafriel
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There is the huge matter of whether or not Haki can kill shadows; doppelganger is used to avoid an attack, not block it, so Moria himself takes no damage whatsoever, it all goes to his incorporeal shadows. Same goes for attacks, Boa can kick all the brick bats she wants, but if she can't disable them, it means that Moria can deal an infinite amount of small damage, resulting in TKO for Boa.
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boa could do a haki wave to destroy the bats we already seen shank do a haki wave so strong it damage WB ship.
Boa and Shanks are on a different league, one is a yonkou and the other a sichibukai, and since we know absolutely nothing about Shanks' haki, we can only speculate.
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Old 2010-01-20, 13:14   Link #442
andy
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
There is the huge matter of whether or not Haki can kill shadows; doppelganger is used to avoid an attack, not block it, so Moria himself takes no damage whatsoever, it all goes to his incorporeal shadows. Same goes for attacks, Boa can kick all the brick bats she wants, but if she can't disable them, it means that Moria can deal an infinite amount of small damage, resulting in TKO for Boa.

Boa and Shanks are on a different league, one is a yonkou and the other a sichibukai, and since we know absolutely nothing about Shanks' haki, we can only speculate.

Once again your not showing me anything in the manga and just saying what ever you want . Haki negate DF powers this is fact in the manga no matter what you say .

doppelganger is not some instant move that he can get out of the way in less that a second and i showed this 2 times in the manga already .

When he was fighting nightmare luffy and fighting jimbei both times he saw the attack coming both times he could not switch in time.


Moria and his shadow are still connected he does not fully change back to shadow or human form in a hurry it take time boa should be able to land kick at that time.

Now your saying a attack that base luffy could get rid off boa can't . Really i am suppose to think a woman who is CC expert and can infuse haki with her moves that can negate DF powers can't get rid of brick bat a move that luffy get rid of in matter of seconds.

Also we know shanks has king haki just like luffy just like wb and boa anything they should be able to do boa can also , she live on a island where there are haki experts.your now saying the only person we know that has been train in haki from since she was young can't do something like a haki wave that even luffy did 2 times so far without even knowing it.

Bao did a 360 degree move that would hit back the brick bat just like luffy did giving her time to get near moria i also showed you this when she did perfume femur and that move is super fast it also goes forward making easier to get to next enemy.

You making up what ever you want without any sort of fact from the manga , or showing times where moria did this stuff you say he can do rather easy.


I am done with this tier crap to tell the truth as this is going to be my last post for this. people say this char can do this or that without showing any fact from the manga or any time when they did in a fight with others .
For bao i shows pages right out of the manga but what happens people going to say what ever they want without showing anything .
I mean they already make up there mind even with you showing them stuff from manga to back up your point so why even bother .
I got suck into because of blackbeard d kuma i am going to have see if i get to fight him in SF4 to stop my rage lolol.

Last edited by andy; 2010-01-20 at 15:33.
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Old 2010-01-20, 14:26   Link #443
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Fact is moria need time to switch his shadow ,in close combat he would not be able to do it in time i show you 2 eg in the manga . You have not show me any where in close combat he could switch to avoid a kick or punch which last less that a second compare to a hold that robin did for many panels.
Everyone needs time to react at close range. But Hancock has to close the distance between herself and Moria first, and like we've pointed out already she's going to have a really hard time doing that. Doppleman is a big nuisance and it cannot be destroyed by any means (from what we know).

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Slave arrow it is attack and might go forward but she can do many which means she cover allot of ground. It also comes out super fast , i mean in less than a second for over 20 arrows again i showed you this in the manga. chapter 555 page 8-9
Might go forward? There is no "might" here, because they do travel in a straight path. And like Croc's desert spada, it's easy to see that attack coming, especially since she literally has to set up the attack as if she's using a bow and then aim. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what kind of attack that is, and any competent fighter will know that they have to get out of the way. It's common sense.

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Also you for get her attacks might have haki when she did pistol kiss luffy powers did not work , so how can you say that his shadow would be able to block the attacks . If the attacks have haki his shadow might not be able to block them . chapter 518 page 9
Obviously she does use haki in her attacks. I pointed that out in my first post for this discussion, but I guess you missed that. Pistol kiss is not going to be of much use because it's a single (and small for that matter) projectile attack. Very easy to dodge that. Hancock is better off doing slave arrows, and even that move has its drawbacks for reasons I explained above.

And you don't understand how haki works. It doesn't shut off DF powers like Blackbeard's darkness fruit; it enables one to bypass the defenses of any DF. In other words, DF users can still use their powers normally even when hit by a haki attack. However, haki users have to hit the actual person to damage them (as in their actual body).

So here's really what it comes down to:
- Moria literally detaches doppleman from his body to fight for him (this is how he swaps positions in the first place)
- Hancock has two opponents to deal with, and the only way for her to harm Moria is if she actually hits his real body (himself)
- He can have doppleman and himself spread out, and that will basically make it extremely difficult for Hancock to ever land a hit on him.
- Hitting doppleman will be useless since it's no longer a part of Moria's body when detached to fight outside
- Brick bats will be used to gradually weaken her until the end of the match.

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Plus all boa does have to do if tries to switch place is hit him a haki kick , why can't she ? Haki negates DF powers we seen this use many times.
I've now explained to you why this won't work or at the very least by difficult to accomplish.

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If don't think she fast that okay but i am seen allot from the manga to think she can move at a certain speed. I already see that her moves come out fast and she fast in combat . chapter 555 page 10-11 when did perfume femur saw speed lines in the back ground.
My point is that we haven't seen enough to say she's super fast, like you originally said. Honestly, we've just seen her take out cannon fodder and stop Smoker (who isn't that fast, mind you). Nothing to really boast about, so far.

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You also have no proof that doppleman would be even able to block attacks that are a certain attack power. Using base luffy don't mean much cause even boa sisters were able to block his attacks until he went gear 2.
But from what we've seen, doppleman cannot be destroyed, nor does it feel any pain. And even if Hancock manages to get by it, do you really think Moria is going to be standing still while this battle is going on? He'll be constantly moving so that he could get himself into good places to switch with doppleman if necessary.

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You guys have brick bat beating boa a attack that does hardly any damage and she has 360 degree attack that super fast that can knock all of them down. She also has has a huge ass snake that can cover her and we know they can make snakes as hard as steel.Chapter 518 page 7
You also saying she never be able to get near moria which even more of joke .
And we've said already that brick bat is an attack that will gradually wear her down, meaning that it isn't that strong but over time will make the difference. And I never said she will never be able to get near Moria, I said it will be very difficult for her to accomplish that. Like I said before, this is just a bad match up for Hancock.

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Note that everything i said has some fact base on the manga and not what i think a char can do like how moria fans thinking his shadow can block haki attacks , thinking he fast boa can't get near him . think he can teleport at super speed.
And if you've read everything I've typed up until this point, you'll see that this match is not in Hancock's favor.
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Old 2010-01-20, 14:59   Link #444
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Everyone needs time to react at close range. But Hancock has to close the distance between herself and Moria first, and like we've pointed out already she's going to have a really hard time doing that. Doppleman is a big nuisance and it cannot be destroyed by any means (from what we know).



Might go forward? There is no "might" here, because they do travel in a straight path. And like Croc's desert spada, it's easy to see that attack coming, especially since she literally has to set up the attack as if she's using a bow and then aim. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what kind of attack that is, and any competent fighter will know that they have to get out of the way. It's common sense.



Obviously she does use haki in her attacks. I pointed that out in my first post for this discussion, but I guess you missed that. Pistol kiss is not going to be of much use because it's a single (and small for that matter) projectile attack. Very easy to dodge that. Hancock is better off doing slave arrows, and even that move has its drawbacks for reasons I explained above.

And you don't understand how haki works. It doesn't shut off DF powers like Blackbeard's darkness fruit; it enables one to bypass the defenses of any DF. In other words, DF users can still use their powers normally even when hit by a haki attack. However, haki users have to hit the actual person to damage them (as in their actual body).

So here's really what it comes down to:
- Moria literally detaches doppleman from his body to fight for him (this is how he swaps positions in the first place)
- Hancock has two opponents to deal with, and the only way for her to harm Moria is if she actually hits his real body (himself)
- He can have doppleman and himself spread out, and that will basically make it extremely difficult for Hancock to ever land a hit on him.
- Hitting doppleman will be useless since it's no longer a part of Moria's body when detached to fight outside
- Brick bats will be used to gradually weaken her until the end of the match.



I've now explained to you why this won't work or at the very least by difficult to accomplish.



My point is that we haven't seen enough to say she's super fast, like you originally said. Honestly, we've just seen her take out cannon fodder and stop Smoker (who isn't that fast, mind you). Nothing to really boast about, so far.



But from what we've seen, doppleman cannot be destroyed, nor does it feel any pain. And even if Hancock manages to get by it, do you really think Moria is going to be standing still while this battle is going on? He'll be constantly moving so that he could get himself into good places to switch with doppleman if necessary.



And we've said already that brick bat is an attack that will gradually wear her down, meaning that it isn't that strong but over time will make the difference. And I never said she will never be able to get near Moria, I said it will be very difficult for her to accomplish that. Like I said before, this is just a bad match up for Hancock.



And if you've read everything I've typed up until this point, you'll see that this match is not in Hancock's favor.


How can even compare slave arrow to desert spada one attack going forward while one goes left , right ,up ,down but in forward direction and cover a huge area ,set up time the attack comes out in less that a second .

now your saying smoker not fast when seen him go from point A to B when luffy did his jet gattling in a second

Your whole fight is base one that fact that you think she can get near moria which is huge joke . moria one slowest people we seen on OP compare to a CC expert and when she do her moves they are super fast and when she did a move oda when out of his way to show speed lines .

Hell boa don't even have to get near him she can spam slave arrow over and over a attack that should have haki in it . To make matter worst you think a lazy ass person like moria has more endurance than a amazon princess.
If anything in a fight where people have to be more around allot moria is last person that should come on top.

Last edited by andy; 2010-01-20 at 15:50.
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Old 2010-01-20, 15:50   Link #445
Kafriel
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Read post above yours everything you said there was taken care in that , and i have the manga to back it up
Two short questions then, where in the manga does it state as a fact that Haki renders DF powers useless, and where does it state that....
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Moria and his shadow are still connected he does not fully change back to shadow or human form in a hurry it take time
The whole fight depends on whether Moria can doppel out of potential attacks and if Boa can kill the brick bats and not just make them disappear only to respawn half a second later all around her. She isn't immune to damage or anything, setting up slave arrows gives enough time for the bats to dish out the damage needed to stop her attack.
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Old 2010-01-20, 16:49   Link #446
andy
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Two short questions then, where in the manga does it state as a fact that Haki renders DF powers useless, and where does it state that....
The whole fight depends on whether Moria can doppel out of potential attacks and if Boa can kill the brick bats and not just make them disappear only to respawn half a second later all around her. She isn't immune to damage or anything, setting up slave arrows gives enough time for the bats to dish out the damage needed to stop her attack.
When it come to haki i might not understand how it fully works , so i going to make my last stand with just her powers and skills.

First we seen more than once he can't dopple out of attacks fast , if boa gets close and hit him only once the fight is done remember all her moves are 1 hit ko moves unless your in a element form like smoker.

Second another huge question you be would her power affect moria shadows since it has a physically form would bats turn to stone .

Third which move is faster slave arrow or brick bats would moria be able to get brick bats to attack her before she can do slave arrow at him . note that slave arrow come out super fast and cover a huge area. Moria would need his shadow to block slave arrow if it can even block it or be able to dodge every slave arrow.

Note to show you how fast slave arrow is cannon balls were shoot at boa with her back turn , they were half way there she did slave arrow and balls drop almost where they were when she saw them.

Also note how fast she got down there to attack the pirates that slave arrow miss.
In next page look how fast she moves forward with her attack . this ties back into my next point that if she can move that fast doing a attack she should be able to move fast in the whole.

If this is one on one fight i also have the snake helping boa with moria , if he use his shadow to hold off boa she could use her snake to attack him. This is only a one on one fight not like the war .

Last edited by andy; 2010-01-20 at 17:11.
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Old 2010-01-20, 17:40   Link #447
james0246
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Two short questions then, where in the manga does it state as a fact that Haki renders DF powers useless, and where does it state that.
This is a theory/speculation originally made to describe how and why Sentomaru was able to damage Luffy with what appeared to only be normal (for One Piece) punches. So, if Haki can literally destabalize any DF power, then yes Boa would be able to disperse Moria's shadows
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Old 2010-01-20, 19:20   Link #448
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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How can even compare slave arrow to desert spada one attack going forward while one goes left , right ,up ,down but in forward direction and cover a huge area ,set up time the attack comes out in less that a second .
Slave arrow does not cover a huge area. I just looked at the picture you referenced and that is quite narrow. Huge is something like Kuma's ursa shock or crocodile's sand pit. Slave arrow doesn't compare to either of those.

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now your saying smoker not fast when seen him go from point A to B when luffy did his jet gattling in a second
And you failed to notice that Luffy was standing still after he finished his jet gatling gun. Who's to say that Gear 2 Luffy can't outrun Smoker if he tried?

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Your whole fight is base one that fact that you think she can get near moria which is huge joke . moria one slowest people we seen on OP compare to a CC expert and when she do her moves they are super fast and when she did a move oda when out of his way to show speed lines .
Once again, I didn't say that she can't get near Moria. Do you even read other people's posts? I said that she would have a hard time getting near him. And the thing about Moria is that swapping positions with doppleman compensates for his lack of speed, so he still poses a threat. And your speed line argument is weak. Oda has done that on many occasions to show that an attack is swift. It's a drawing technique, and he hasn't done that just for Boa.

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Hell boa don't even have to get near him she can spam slave arrow over and over a attack that should have haki in it . To make matter worst you think a lazy ass person like moria has more endurance than a amazon princess.
If anything in a fight where people have to be more around allot moria is last person that should come on top.
Well, to this day, Moria still has some of the greatest feats of durability. Oda hasn't even shown a formidable opponent try to attack Hancock yet, so don't go around claiming she can tank attacks well when we haven't seen such a thing. I'll definitely give her the advantage in speed, though.

@James - From what we've been shown, haki only bypasses the defenses of any DF. It just allows a DF user to receive damage, regardless of what DF they possess. However, the haki blow has to hit the other person's actual body for it to be effective.
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Old 2010-01-20, 21:34   Link #449
andy
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Slave arrow does not cover a huge area. I just looked at the picture you referenced and that is quite narrow. Huge is something like Kuma's ursa shock or crocodile's sand pit. Slave arrow doesn't compare to either of those.



And you failed to notice that Luffy was standing still after he finished his jet gatling gun. Who's to say that Gear 2 Luffy can't outrun Smoker if he tried?



Once again, I didn't say that she can't get near Moria. Do you even read other people's posts? I said that she would have a hard time getting near him. And the thing about Moria is that swapping positions with doppleman compensates for his lack of speed, so he still poses a threat. And your speed line argument is weak. Oda has done that on many occasions to show that an attack is swift. It's a drawing technique, and he hasn't done that just for Boa.



Well, to this day, Moria still has some of the greatest feats of durability. Oda hasn't even shown a formidable opponent try to attack Hancock yet, so don't go around claiming she can tank attacks well when we haven't seen such a thing. I'll definitely give her the advantage in speed, though.


@James - From what we've been shown, haki only bypasses the defenses of any DF. It just allows a DF user to receive damage, regardless of what DF they possess. However, the haki blow has to hit the other person's actual body for it to be effective.
I never said she can tank attacks or maybe i was not being clear . boa should have more stamina she should be able to fight longer than moria .

Also look at that pic again is does cover a good amount they were still arrows going off screen both to left and right that was cut off. So we can say for certain she can cover even more space with a attack that take less that a second.

Plus moria durability means nothing to boa 1 hit and he in trouble.

you kept on saying he can switch so his shadow going to attack and when she get pass that he going to switch back. Did question ever come up how far is he going to be from his shadow after she get past it . If he to close boa can attack both of them with perfume femur .

In fact you already made the fight to moria advantage by give him huge place to run about. IF there in close place like how luffy and lucci were what would happen then.

I would say knowing moria he would try and steal boa shadow which would get him kill.
you can say what want but last point i made is fully with in moria to try that .

Fact is if boa get close to him to give him 1 hit and we know he can't change super fast the fight is over . When all it take for someone to beat you is one hit from so many attacks and he has no certain way to win vs her i don't how you have moria beating boa.

he not faster than her
he can't do cc better than her .
he might be able to take more hits than her but that don't mean much to boa.
he can't use his scissors vs her .
he can't use any of stuff haki can do (attacks stronger ,negate DF , see attacks,hit away attacks)

There no way moria can kept boa away forever , even worst if they are in enclose area.
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Old 2010-01-20, 22:42   Link #450
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I never said she can tank attacks or maybe i was not being clear . boa should have more stamina she should be able to fight longer than moria .
In this series, pretty much every significant character can fight for a very long time. Durability (how much of a beating one can take) is a much more important factor, though.

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In fact you already made the fight to moria advantage by give him huge place to run about. IF there in close place like how luffy and lucci were what would happen then.
The battleground is outside on land. I said this in my opening post when I started this tier list.

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Fact is if boa get close to him to give him 1 hit and we know he can't change super fast the fight is over . When all it take for someone to beat you is one hit from so many attacks and he has no certain way to win vs her i don't how you have moria beating boa.

he not faster than her
he can't do cc better than her .
he might be able to take more hits than her but that don't mean much to boa.
he can't use his scissors vs her .
he can't use any of stuff haki can do (attacks stronger ,negate DF , see attacks,hit away attacks)
Here's what we're going to do. We're going to wait until Oda gives a better explanation on Hancock's powers. For example, why is it that fodder would get petrified wherever Hancock hit them, and yet Smoker's body was perfectly fine after getting kicked? Something tells me certain conditions have to be met for Hancock to petrify people with her strikes, because the way you describe her is far too hax for the One Piece universe. You say Moria can't use scissors against her because she destroyed Smoker's weapn, so are you trying tell me that all weapon based fighters (i.e. Whitebeard, Shanks, Mihawk, etc.) are useless against Hancock? I highly doubt that. There has to be some way or trick to avoid her petrification, otherwise she's stupidly broken. In theory, Doflamingo can beat everyone in the One Piece universe by just controlling them. Do you honestly believe that too?
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Old 2010-01-20, 23:53   Link #451
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@James - From what we've been shown, haki only bypasses the defenses of any DF. It just allows a DF user to receive damage, regardless of what DF they possess. However, the haki blow has to hit the other person's actual body for it to be effective.
The shadow is an actual extension of Moria's body. It isn't like, say, a light blast from Kizaru (which is produced from Kizaru's body, but is not part of Kizaru's body after it is ejected), rather Moria's shadow is a definite 'mass' that will always, no matter it's shape or form, be Moria's shadow.

Obviously, this is speculation, and it should only be treated as such...
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Old 2010-01-21, 00:30   Link #452
andy
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In this series, pretty much every significant character can fight for a very long time. Durability (how much of a beating one can take) is a much more important factor, though.



The battleground is outside on land. I said this in my opening post when I started this tier list.



Here's what we're going to do. We're going to wait until Oda gives a better explanation on Hancock's powers. For example, why is it that fodder would get petrified wherever Hancock hit them, and yet Smoker's body was perfectly fine after getting kicked? Something tells me certain conditions have to be met for Hancock to petrify people with her strikes, because the way you describe her is far too hax for the One Piece universe. You say Moria can't use scissors against her because she destroyed Smoker's weapn, so are you trying tell me that all weapon based fighters (i.e. Whitebeard, Shanks, Mihawk, etc.) are useless against Hancock? I highly doubt that. There has to be some way or trick to avoid her petrification, otherwise she's stupidly broken. In theory, Doflamingo can beat everyone in the One Piece universe by just controlling them. Do you honestly believe that too?
Say what you want but fact is in the manga what ever boa hit turns to stone after 1 hit or part of it turns to stone. Be it weapons , cannon balls , people , PX head , now matter what once it has a physically form . Not only smoker weapon but other people also hell she kick threw a fodder weapon like it was a joke.

Same way how that person rust zoro swords it seem like boa can turn them into stone that did not need a certain condition so why should boa.

The only reason smoker did not turn to stone was because when she kick him he was in a element form ,you can't turn smoke into stone. He even said him self that he was not solid.

You kept on hearing people say sengoku has to be strong cause WB said so, but guess what that same person that WB said knew the seas back then .

Went out of his was to mention how strong she is, the head of the marines said that . We are looking at a woman that turn a warlord when she was around 17 -20 .
As i said do people really see how hax this woman seem to be and until oda show otherwise she be super hax just like how don is super hax.

We know he control people , and he stop joz from moving don't if he could have control him since we did not see but we know he can control people and at least stop people with his DF.

you should also notice that oda went of his way to show that luffy won't fight boa while also making her really hax.
Strong DF check
King haki check
Range and CC expert check

Last edited by andy; 2010-01-21 at 00:51.
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Old 2010-01-21, 12:48   Link #453
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Same way how that person rust zoro swords it seem like boa can turn them into stone that did not need a certain condition so why should boa.
That guy has to actually grab the weapon for it to rust, which is not easy to do. That's not going to work on people who are way out of his league.

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The only reason smoker did not turn to stone was because when she kick him he was in a element form ,you can't turn smoke into stone. He even said him self that he was not solid.
Says who? You? Because Oda sure as hell didn't say anything about that. This is only your assumption, and therefore it will only be treated as speculation for your argument.

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You kept on hearing people say sengoku has to be strong cause WB said so, but guess what that same person that WB said knew the seas back then .
Weak point. Sengoku said "That woman is strong!", which can be said for any of the other warlords. Subsequent to that statement, he commented on Jimbei having great power as well. Do you see where I'm going with this? The whole point of that scene was to illustrate that all of the warlords would be valuable assets in defending against Whitebeard and his forces. All of them are powerful. Nothing about her makes her stand out from the rest of the group.

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Went out of his was to mention how strong she is, the head of the marines said that .
The paragraph above answers why there's nothing really special about that.

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We are looking at a woman that turn a warlord when she was around 17 -20 .
So? Ace was offered the position when he was like 19, and there are still plenty of people that can kick his ass. Age is irrelevant here.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
As i said do people really see how hax this woman seem to be and until oda show otherwise she be super hax just like how don is super hax.
So then I guess until Oda shows otherwise, you have Hancock beating guys like Whitebeard, Shanks, and Mihawk. It's like how you said you have Smoker beating Mihawk until Oda shows he can cut logia users. You're being ridiculous, my friend.

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you should also notice that oda went of his way to show that luffy won't fight boa while also making her really hax.
Strong DF check
King haki check
Range and CC expert check
Poor argument. Of course Oda is not going to have Luffy fight all of the warlords. That would be boring, repetitive, and take too long. More importantly, plot determines who will side with who, not power. Hancock became an ally of Luffy because he hates the world nobles and took a stand against them (let's also not forget the stupid love sickness Oda came up with). Jimbei allied with Luffy because he refused to do battle against the Whitebeard pirates, whom he deeply respects ever since they liberated Fishman island. Since he's a good friend of Ace, it was a given he wouldn't become an enemy of Luffy. So yeah, Hancock's power has nothing to do with being an ally to Luffy.
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Old 2010-01-21, 18:53   Link #454
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
That guy has to actually grab the weapon for it to rust, which is not easy to do. That's not going to work on people who are way out of his league.



Says who? You? Because Oda sure as hell didn't say anything about that. This is only your assumption, and therefore it will only be treated as speculation for your argument.



Weak point. Sengoku said "That woman is strong!", which can be said for any of the other warlords. Subsequent to that statement, he commented on Jimbei having great power as well. Do you see where I'm going with this? The whole point of that scene was to illustrate that all of the warlords would be valuable assets in defending against Whitebeard and his forces. All of them are powerful. Nothing about her makes her stand out from the rest of the group.



The paragraph above answers why there's nothing really special about that.



So? Ace was offered the position when he was like 19, and there are still plenty of people that can kick his ass. Age is irrelevant here.



So then I guess until Oda shows otherwise, you have Hancock beating guys like Whitebeard, Shanks, and Mihawk. It's like how you said you have Smoker beating Mihawk until Oda shows he can cut logia users. You're being ridiculous, my friend.



Poor argument. Of course Oda is not going to have Luffy fight all of the warlords. That would be boring, repetitive, and take too long. More importantly, plot determines who will side with who, not power. Hancock became an ally of Luffy because he hates the world nobles and took a stand against them (let's also not forget the stupid love sickness Oda came up with). Jimbei allied with Luffy because he refused to do battle against the Whitebeard pirates, whom he deeply respects ever since they liberated Fishman island. Since he's a good friend of Ace, it was a given he wouldn't become an enemy of Luffy. So yeah, Hancock's power has nothing to do with being an ally to Luffy.
No i am not being ridiculous, you are . I am going with fact from the manga and just because it does not suit you it's not my problem .

The whole fight with moria is your assumption that he can switch out fast , he can kept boa away, he stop her with brick bats, haki won't work and whole bunch of other stuff , but then when i use facts you say we have to wait and see , let oda explain ,does not look that way to me.

Your whole fight is base on assumption with out any sort of fact to back it up , at least i still have the manga i can fall back on you have nothing.

I am really done with this as soon as you pull the whole oda has to explain bao powers because i don't like how they are and i think they to hax .

Just because boa powers to you ,make it seem like see can beat mihawk ,shanks , and WB does not change the facts of the manga that anything she hit that had a physically form turn to stone or partly to stone.
Until we see otherwise or oda explain otherwise it is fact.

Just like don powers until we see more of them and how they work. It is fact that he can control anybody or stop anybody .
What i think or what you think does not change what happen in the manga so far.
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Old 2010-01-21, 20:31   Link #455
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
No i am not being ridiculous, you are . I am going with fact from the manga and just because it does not suit you it's not my problem .
LOL, a lot of what you're saying is your interpretation and not factual. She's been shown to turn fodder into stone, but Smoker was unaffected. I wonder why that is. You're just getting upset (you admitted this yourself) because you're a Hancock fanboy .

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
I am really done with this as soon as you pull the whole oda has to explain bao powers because i don't like how they are and i think they to hax .
Oda does have to better explain how Hancock's powers work. Smoker not being petrified tells me there's some way to avoid it. I'm not going to be listening to a Hancock fanboy who claims to understand her powers fully.

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Just like don powers until we see more of them and how they work. It is fact that he can control anybody or stop anybody .
So, until proven otherwise, you have Doflamingo beating Whitebeard (who has proven to be and is labeled the strongest man in the world) in a fight. Nice .
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Old 2010-01-22, 00:05   Link #456
andy
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LOL, a lot of what you're saying is your interpretation and not factual. She's been shown to turn fodder into stone, but Smoker was unaffected. I wonder why that is. You're just getting upset (you admitted this yourself) because you're a Hancock fanboy .



Oda does have to better explain how Hancock's powers work. Smoker not being petrified tells me there's some way to avoid it. I'm not going to be listening to a Hancock fanboy who claims to understand her powers fully.



So, until proven otherwise, you have Doflamingo beating Whitebeard (who has proven to be and is labeled the strongest man in the world) in a fight. Nice .


You seem to be missing the point the only thing that did not turn to stone was in a element form ,everything else that had physically form turn to stone .

Fact boa kick weapons, PX , people with a physically form they turn to stone or partly .
Fact the only thing that did not turn to stone was in element form or not solid . Smoker said it him self chapter 559 page 13

MY assumption base on facts because smoker was in element form he did not get turn to stone.

Yours i don't care that only thing that did not turn to stone was smoker when he was smoke , i don't care that he was not solid , i don't care that everything else boa hit with a kick turn to stone or partly when it had a physically form and we see it more than once. Same fodder PX took all the SH to beat it , boa turn it head to stone something harder than steel in 1 hit.

You wonder why smoker did not turn to stone but it's right in the manga your problem is you don't want to accept that can be reason . It has to be something else or boa to hax because you think she could beat mihawk , wb and shanks.
It is not interpretation that when boa kick something with a physically form is turns to stone it is fact.

I might be boa fan boy but i have facts on my side what do have other than i don't think so .

Also stop trying to put words in my mouth i never said don can beat WB.

I don't know if don can stop WB from using his DF in time.
I don't know if haki would allow WB to cancel Don DF.
I don't know if don can use his strings to attack anyone while he's in control or stopping them.
Also don't know when oda shows Don powers in full that you won't be able to see the strings to dodge them
I said it's fact that don can stop people and control them not that he can beat WB.

Also the world strongest man seem to getting his ass kick by the admirals , we also know he might not even be strongest any more when he even said it him self.

Last edited by andy; 2010-01-22 at 00:33.
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Old 2010-01-22, 01:50   Link #457
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
You seem to be missing the point the only thing that did not turn to stone was in a element form ,everything else that had physically form turn to stone .
You still don't get it, and now I know for sure that you're completely misunderstanding my posts or just not reading them. I'm not repeating myself again.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Fact boa kick weapons, PX , people with a physically form they turn to stone or partly .
Fact the only thing that did not turn to stone was in element form or not solid . Smoker said it him self chapter 559 page 13
Thanks for repeating stuff I already know.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
MY assumption base on facts because smoker was in element form he did not get turn to stone.
Still repeating the same things over and over again?

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Yours i don't care that only thing that did not turn to stone was smoker when he was smoke , i don't care that he was not solid , i don't care that everything else boa hit with a kick turn to stone or partly when it had a physically form and we see it more than once. Same fodder PX took all the SH to beat it , boa turn it head to stone something harder than steel in 1 hit.
What is this "I don't care" garbage you're writing down? I never said any of this, and this paragraph is proof you still don't understand what I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
You wonder why smoker did not turn to stone but it's right in the manga your problem is you don't want to accept that can be reason . It has to be something else or boa to hax because you think she could beat mihawk , wb and shanks.
It is not interpretation that when boa kick something with a physically form is turns to stone it is fact.
You are really running out of things to say.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
I might be boa fan boy but i have facts on my side what do have other than i don't think so .
You ARE a Hancock fanboy. There's no denying it because your arguments are so biased.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Also stop trying to put words in my mouth i never said don can beat WB.
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm just using your faulty logic, which implies that Don can beat WB.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
I don't know if don can stop WB from using his DF in time.
I don't know if haki would allow WB to cancel Don DF.
I don't know if don can use his strings to attack anyone while he's in control or stopping them.
Also don't know when oda shows Don powers in full that you won't be able to see the strings to dodge them
I said it's fact that don can stop people and control them not that he can beat WB.
Exactly. You don't know how his ability works, just like you don't know completely know how Hancock's petrification works. You're "inferring" how Hancock's ability works, and that is not concrete evidence.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Also the world strongest man seem to getting his ass kick by the admirals , we also know he might not even be strongest any more when he even said it him self.
I like how you completely ignored the fact that he got stabbed by Squado. Obviously he can't perform in peak physical condition when he has a gaping fatal wound in his abdomen area. And when this war started, he was pretty much untouchable.

I'm done with this discussion. I don't know why you bothered to reply to my previous post since you haven't disproved anything I've said. It's all inference (I hope you know what this means) that's coming from your argument, and that's not good enough. If it makes you happy, I'm going to hold off on declaring a winner between Hancock and Moria.
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Old 2010-01-22, 02:51   Link #458
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
You still don't get it, and now I know for sure that you're completely misunderstanding my posts or just not reading them. I'm not repeating myself again.



Thanks for repeating stuff I already know.



Still repeating the same things over and over again?



What is this "I don't care" garbage you're writing down? I never said any of this, and this paragraph is proof you still don't understand what I'm saying.



You are really running out of things to say.



You ARE a Hancock fanboy. There's no denying it because your arguments are so biased.



I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm just using your faulty logic, which implies that Don can beat WB.



Exactly. You don't know how his ability works, just like you don't know completely know how Hancock's petrification works. You're "inferring" how Hancock's ability works, and that is not concrete evidence.



I like how you completely ignored the fact that he got stabbed by Squado. Obviously he can't perform in peak physical condition when he has a gaping fatal wound in his abdomen area. And when this war started, he was pretty much untouchable.

I'm done with this discussion. I don't know why you bothered to reply to my previous post since you haven't disproved anything I've said. It's all inference (I hope you know what this means) that's coming from your argument, and that's not good enough. If it makes you happy, I'm going to hold off on declaring a winner between Hancock and Moria.
Unlike like you i have events to back up my claim that happen in the manga i am not the one saying i don't think it works so without it being a assumption.
You wonder why smoker did not turn to stone , I show you a reason from the manga he was not solid . You say that is wrong and that's my assumption.
Now give me your reason with some support from the manga that's not the reason why,
show me where bao was fighting something with a kick that was in solid form and it did not turn to stone.
Up to now you have you have not said anything or show me anything from the manga that goes against what i am saying .
Your are telling me a women that can turn a PX to stone something harder than steel is not able to do it to weapons or someone else that is in solid form with out any events in manga to help you . It has gotten so bad you did not even come up with any theories to back up your assumption.
I am not using faulty logic that would be you saying that the one thing that was not solid that did not turn to stone ,make everything she hit with a physically body null.

Hell as much as boa fan boy i am , i even thought of ways for shanks and WB to fight her . I have WB winning, for shanks need to see how he fights.

Also when the war started WB was not in peak physical condition or he would not gotten stabbed in the first place.

Edit i am not trying to be a ass or anything but if your going to debate at less come up with some other than i don't think it works that way without saying anything else.

Last edited by andy; 2010-01-22 at 04:14.
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Old 2010-01-22, 03:49   Link #459
Tenryuken
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@james0246

I want to correct the overestimation I did on Mihawk's behalf.
He doesn't have Haki otherwise Buggy would be dead now and his Sword isn't made of Seastone either otherwise Buggy would also be dead now.
The only explanation is NOCTIS(Mihawk's Sword), It's the Strongest Sword so it's only natural that is cutting ability is so high that Mihawk could cut Bones, no special powers were used to do so and it also explains why Buggy was unaffected.
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Old 2010-01-22, 12:11   Link #460
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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@Andy - This is the very last thing I'm going to say to you concerning this topic, and it'll give you something to think about.

In Chapter 570 - Page 10 - Central panel, we see that Hancock appears to have the upper hand on Sentoumaru. Before his encounter with her, he did not take any damage whatsoever. But guess what? He's not petrified anywhere on his body. Now, we can deduce two things from that scene: 1) Hancock used her snake to harm Sentoumaru, or 2) Hancock used physical strikes to harm Sentoumaru. If it's the latter (and there is a possibility that it could be), that would show that people with a certain level of strength can resist getting petrified. Think about this for a while.
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