AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > One Piece

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-01-22, 13:16   Link #461
paradox13
zzz
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to paradox13
Quote:
I want to correct the overestimation I did on Mihawk's behalf.
He doesn't have Haki otherwise Buggy would be dead now and his Sword isn't made of Seastone either otherwise Buggy would also be dead now.
The only explanation is NOCTIS(Mihawk's Sword), It's the Strongest Sword so it's only natural that is cutting ability is so high that Mihawk could cut Bones, no special powers were used to do so and it also explains why Buggy was unaffected.
Or else Mihawk didn't bother using haki on Buggy as he thought the strike was going to Luffy.. =/

And you don't need haki to harm Luffy because he is naturally weak against cutting attacks (being rubber and all).
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
paradox13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-22, 15:59   Link #462
andy
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
@Andy - This is the very last thing I'm going to say to you concerning this topic, and it'll give you something to think about.

In Chapter 570 - Page 10 - Central panel, we see that Hancock appears to have the upper hand on Sentoumaru. Before his encounter with her, he did not take any damage whatsoever. But guess what? He's not petrified anywhere on his body. Now, we can deduce two things from that scene: 1) Hancock used her snake to harm Sentoumaru, or 2) Hancock used physical strikes to harm Sentoumaru. If it's the latter (and there is a possibility that it could be), that would show that people with a certain level of strength can resist getting petrified. Think about this for a while.

You know what my problem is your telling me i am using assumption ,interpretation and inferring from the Manga to prove my point .

What did you just do, to try to prove your point without even looking at other factors.

1 You are using your interpretation that they fought , not that he just got there .
There nothing to show they fought unlike all the other fights so far where you see at least 1 attack. It look like he now land there with SFX at the bottom , also his back is turn and he's not facing boa. Also notice he not using his axe knowing full well boa is a warlord.

2 He was asking her why she was stopping the pacifista, not a line you would think he ask if they were already fighting since she would have been stopping him.

3 You are using assumption that he got to where boa is without even getting one speck of dirt on him or a cut while moving threw a battlefield on his way to where she is. While he was off panel with allot of things going on in the background.

4 also you deduce 2 things from that panel with nothing but interpretation , here is another which i did with events from the manga so lets say they fought.

We know Sentoumaru has the power to cancel DF power when he hit you or block , only thing in manga that we see can do that is haki . Lets say it not haki since it was never said .

Now since both boa and him are CC fighters it's possible the he cancel her DF power since she need to physically hit him and he block them with his ability.

Or another , he dodge all her attacks and get dirt on him . I mean it did not even cross your mind that he could have dodge her.

Now you can say we have different views on what happen , but your assumption go into way less detail than mine.

Last edited by andy; 2010-01-22 at 16:27.
andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-22, 16:46   Link #463
Blackbeard D. Kuma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
You know what my problem is your telling me i am using assumption ,interpretation and inferring from the Manga to prove my point .
You're problem is you don't want to lose this argument, and I'm gradually destroying your points one by one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
What did you just do, to try to prove your point without even looking at other factors.

1 You are using your interpretation that they fought , not that he just got there .
There nothing to show they fought unlike all the other fights so far where you see at least 1 attack. It look like he now land there with SFX at the bottom , also his back is turn and he's not facing boa. Also notice he not using his axe knowing full well boa is a warlord.
Maybe Oda felt it was unnecessary to show Hancock hitting him? You can't expect him to show every single battle or small exchange in this war. Some scenes are meant to convey a certain message, and it's clear that Hancock obstructed Sentoumaru in some kind of way. She can't persuade him to stop with mere words because she has no authority over him, so what's the other alternative? Using force, just like she did to Smoker. But, not everything has to literally be shown to you, and that may have been the intent of that scene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
2 He was asking her why she was stopping the pacifista, not a line you would think he ask if they were already fighting since she would have been stopping him.
From the translation I saw, that's not what I read. He simply asks her if she's on the government's side, that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
3 You are using assumption that he got to where boa is without even getting one speck of dirt on him or a cut while moving threw a battlefield on his way to where she is. While he was off panel with allot of things going on in the background.
Don't you get it? We also can't discount the possibility that she physically stopped him, and there is certainly evidence to support this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
We know Sentoumaru has the power to cancel DF power when he hit you or block , only thing in manga that we see can do that is haki . Lets say it not haki since it was never said .
Again, you've shown that you still don't understand haki. I'm not repeating myself on why you're wrong. This makes your next point completely incorrect. You say you use facts from the manga and yet you can't even get those facts straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
Now since both boa and him are CC fighters it's possible the he cancel her DF power since she need to physically hit him and he block them with his ability.

Or another , he dodge all her attacks and get dirt on him . I mean it did not even cross your mind that he could have dodge her.
You've needlessly dragged this discussion on far too long because of your fanboyism. We simply do not know exactly how Hancock's powers work, and that is my whole point. Therefore, you cannot say Hancock would beat Moria, and I cannot claim vice versa. Naturally, I'm going to also retract my stance on the Croc vs. Hancock match up. Nuff said.
__________________
A new age of piracy is at hand, and emperor Blackbeard is at the helm of it.
Blackbeard D. Kuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-22, 18:18   Link #464
andy
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
You're problem is you don't want to lose this argument, and I'm gradually destroying your points one by one.



Maybe Oda felt it was unnecessary to show Hancock hitting him? You can't expect him to show every single battle or small exchange in this war. Some scenes are meant to convey a certain message, and it's clear that Hancock obstructed Sentoumaru in some kind of way. She can't persuade him to stop with mere words because she has no authority over him, so what's the other alternative? Using force, just like she did to Smoker. But, not everything has to literally be shown to you, and that may have been the intent of that scene. .
Looking at flow of the manga that make no sense what so ever .
Sentoumaru lands why are you destroying the PXs i thought you were on our side, Boa replies.
Now your trying to say your interpretation of the events are better than mine.

Where yours don't make any sense in context of the page and the words use.
Oda is man that pay great attention to detail in his manga ,in every short fight between a name chars he showed a attack first. To show they were fighting.

[QUOTE=From the translation I saw, that's not what I read. He simply asks her if she's on the government's side, that's all.[/QUOTE]

Stop using one manga and manga stream translation they are normal wrong and they miss stuff.
Why ask boa that question if he and she are fighting , it makes no sense. He should be asking her why are you destroying the px and stopping me.
Oda would have not miss out that detail if they were fighting.

[QUOTE=Again, you've shown that you still don't understand haki. I'm not repeating myself on why you're wrong. This makes your next point completely incorrect. You say you use facts from the manga and yet you can't even get those facts straight.[QUOTE]

Seem you did not read what i said i went out of my way to say it was not haki. This is what i said

We know Sentoumaru has the power to cancel DF power when he hit you or block , only thing in manga that we see can do that is haki . Lets say it not haki since it was never said
Read the last part.

Is it a fact that sentoumaru cancel luffy gatling when he block it .
It also a fact that he cancel luffy rubber body defense with a attack.

I don't really care if call me a fanboy or not but you are way more biased them me .
I bet you if croc could not turn a element to sand you would not question it.
To make matters worst you are using a person that can cancel physically DF attacks to prove your point that anyone can stop bao stone kicks under the assumption that she fought and she hit him and he did not turn to stone.

Last edited by andy; 2010-01-22 at 19:06.
andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-23, 23:21   Link #465
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
I don't remember what the scanlation says, so let me clarify.

Chapter 570's Hancock/Sentoumaru encounter goes like this.
Sentoumaru: What the hell are you up to!? Aren't you a Shichibukai? You stopped all these Pacifistas... aren't you on the goverment's side!?
Hancock: I have just one thing to tell you....
Sentoumaru: huh?
Hancock: "Love always comes in a Hurricane"!
Sentoumaru: What are you talking about!?

MS's 570 scanlation had many translation errors, as they seemed to have used a rather inexperienced translator for that chapter. (they used a different person for 571, which was very accurate)
OneManga's script seemed to have just ripped this MS version and reworded it. Shame on them.
However, I do not recall if this part of the chapter was mistrantlated or not.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-28, 09:53   Link #466
DSDSSDWE
Blah
 
Join Date: May 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
And you don't understand how haki works. It doesn't shut off DF powers like Blackbeard's darkness fruit; it enables one to bypass the defenses of any DF. In other words, DF users can still use their powers normally even when hit by a haki attack.
I wasn't sure I agreed with this but after seeing Aokiji pierced by WB and still in ice form (and later restoring himself) it does seem that this description of haki is the most accurate one. In that case, one can perhaps even say that haki is actually a special type of energy/attack that can be used to damage anything.

Quote:
However, haki users have to hit the actual person to damage them (as in their actual body).
We've seen how haki infused arrows can easily destroy rocks. Is it that far fetched to say that a king's haki outburst can damage/destroy the brickbats? Or perhaps an outburst of the king's haki can still damage Moria enough to make him lose focus and disperse his brickbats move?
DSDSSDWE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-28, 13:25   Link #467
Tenryuken
Pirate God
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In My Own World.
Age: 28
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSDSSDWE View Post
I wasn't sure I agreed with this but after seeing Aokiji pierced by WB and still in ice form (and later restoring himself) it does seem that this description of haki is the most accurate one. In that case, one can perhaps even say that haki is actually a special type of energy/attack that can be used to damage anything.
That's how I see it too.
__________________
Tenryuken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-03-07, 00:14   Link #468
kizaru23
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Okay people i just have some questions and see if you guys could answer this for me who would win: Gecko Moria V.s Ace

also : Gecko Moria V.s Smoker

was having a discussion with my friends just today and we had completely different opinions and i just wanted to see who's was more accurate.

i personally say Moria for both

SHADOW ASGARD
__________________
oops, seems like i over did it. :P

Last edited by kizaru23; 2010-03-07 at 00:52.
kizaru23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 13:12   Link #469
Blackbeard D. Kuma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by kizaru23 View Post
Okay people i just have some questions and see if you guys could answer this for me who would win: Gecko Moria V.s Ace

also : Gecko Moria V.s Smoker

was having a discussion with my friends just today and we had completely different opinions and i just wanted to see who's was more accurate.

i personally say Moria for both

SHADOW ASGARD
It depends on how much prep time Moria has. As we saw at Thriller Bark, Moria is extremely dangerous when he's in command of Oars and his entire zombie army. Ace and Smoker would get slaughtered if they would have to contend with all that. Flames don't work at all on Oars (he doesn't feel any pain whatsoever) and Smoker hasn't been shown to create enough smoke to contain a gargantuan creature like Oars. Furthermore, they can't get rid of the zombies since they don't have any salt on them. Now, Moria hasn't shown himself to be capable of using haki, so we could say that he doesn't have any way to physically harm Ace or Smoker (since they're logia users). However, with such a massive zombie army and doppleman, Ace and Smoker would have a really hard time just trying to hit Moria.

In conclusion, with prep time, Moria has quite the advantage. While Ace and Smoker are occupied dealing with Moria's zombie army, he could have his doppleman sneak up on them, and then quickly switch places with doppleman to steal their shadows. However, if Moria is by himself with little to no prep time, I'd say that Ace and Smoker take it. In this scenario, Moria's only option to win is to steal their shadows, and that's going to be very difficult considering how they would be solely focused on him. Doppleman wouldn't even be a hindrance whatsoever due to their logia properties, which is bad seeing as how Doppleman is Moria's whole gimmick when it comes to fighting. If that's ineffective, Moria's going to lose since he's not a skilled phyiscal combatant.
__________________
A new age of piracy is at hand, and emperor Blackbeard is at the helm of it.
Blackbeard D. Kuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 14:31   Link #470
paradox13
zzz
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to paradox13
UH..no

Why are you so pro Moria?

Ace can easily destroy Moria's zombie army. Doesn't' take a lot to take down a few corpses.

Ace will then focus on Moria..Ace's fruit gives him a huge advantage because it is pretty much mass destruction, AoE type, allows him to take down lots of fodder quickly.
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
paradox13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 14:40   Link #471
Blackbeard D. Kuma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
UH..no

Why are you so pro Moria?

Ace can easily destroy Moria's zombie army. Doesn't' take a lot to take down a few corpses.

Ace will then focus on Moria..Ace's fruit gives him a huge advantage because it is pretty much mass destruction, AoE type, allows him to take down lots of fodder quickly.
If you completely read my post, you would see that I'm being impartial.

The only way to permanently take out Moria's zombie army is to use their weakness: salt. Does Ace have that? No. So even if he does blow them away with his flames, they'll just spring right back up. And you didn't even address anything concerning Oars. Like we saw at Thriller Bark, fire doesn't work on him.
__________________
A new age of piracy is at hand, and emperor Blackbeard is at the helm of it.
Blackbeard D. Kuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 14:47   Link #472
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
^Technically, since the zombies are made of human flesh and bone, then they can be burned to dust (and beyond), effectively destroying them completely...unless you are trying to argue that Moria can force the dust to attack , zombies can be destroyed.

Any Logia will automatically have an advantage in almost all fights (unless the opponent is made of their natural weakness). Ace can probably defeat Moria.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 14:54   Link #473
Blackbeard D. Kuma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Technically, since the zombies are made of human flesh and bone, then they can be burned to dust (and beyond), effectively destroying them completely...unless you are trying to argue that Moria can force the dust to attack , zombies can be destroyed.
I guess that depends on how well Dr. Hogback augments the exterior toughness of the zombie. Fire didn't work on Oars, but I would imagine that a lot more work was put into him than the other zombies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Any Logia will automatically have an advantage in almost all fights (unless the opponent is made of their natural weakness). Ace can probably defeat Moria.
If it's one-on-one with no prep time, I agree that Moria would lose. Logia users are terrible match ups for him since he can't harm them at all. This is why we also agree that Crocodile would defeat him.
__________________
A new age of piracy is at hand, and emperor Blackbeard is at the helm of it.
Blackbeard D. Kuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 14:55   Link #474
paradox13
zzz
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to paradox13
Quote:
Like we saw at Thriller Bark, fire doesn't work on him.
Doesn't matter. Oz has no way of hurting Ace (as far as we know Oz at least the zombie Oz cannot use haki), and so Ace can just bypass Oz and go straight to Moria.

A battle between Ace and Moria would be so one sided. You being 'impartial' = you refusing to see that.
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
paradox13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 14:59   Link #475
Blackbeard D. Kuma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Doesn't matter. Oz has no way of hurting Ace (as far as we know Oz at least the zombie Oz cannot use haki), and so Ace can just bypass Oz and go straight to Moria.

A battle between Ace and Moria would be so one sided. You being 'impartial' = you refusing to see that.
And how would Ace just get inside of Oars' cockpit? You also have to remember than in case Ace does close in on Moria, he can switch places with doppleman to avoid getting burned. Like I said already, Moria loses if he's fighting by himself, but if he has his zombie army I see him with the advantage. Lots of trickery and distractions he can use to deal with Ace in such a scenario.
__________________
A new age of piracy is at hand, and emperor Blackbeard is at the helm of it.
Blackbeard D. Kuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 15:24   Link #476
morbosfist
Spinning Lotus
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Ace is made of fire. Even if Oz doesn't feel pain from being burned, enough fire would do the job. He can't be completely fireproof. No matter how much time Moira had to prepare, the only way he'd ever win is by grabbing Ace's shadow, and that'd be a damn difficult thing to achieve.
__________________
morbosfist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 15:34   Link #477
Blackbeard D. Kuma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
No matter how much time Moira had to prepare, the only way he'd ever win is by grabbing Ace's shadow, and that'd be a damn difficult thing to achieve.
But with the whole zombie army and Oars serving as distractions, it would be much easier to steal Ace's shadow.
__________________
A new age of piracy is at hand, and emperor Blackbeard is at the helm of it.
Blackbeard D. Kuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 16:49   Link #478
paradox13
zzz
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to paradox13
Quote:
But with the whole zombie army and Oars serving as distractions, it would be much easier to steal Ace's shadow.
I don't think so.

How do you steal the shadow of a intangible shape whos form is ever changing
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
paradox13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-02, 18:29   Link #479
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
How do you steal the shadow of a intangible shape whos form is ever changing
Ace's form is not ever changing; it is almost always Ace-shaped. Even when he is using his powers (shooting Fire blasts from his body, etc), his basic body still retains the same shape. Hell, even when he becomes intangible, he still retains an Ace-shape. The only time he ever loses his shape is when his body is cut-apart/forcibly separated. (Logia's do not walk around as pillars of whatever element they are made of, rather they always retain a human shape because, unless they actively use their element, they are humans (if they weren't, they would simply disperse upon death).)

Last edited by james0246; 2010-04-02 at 18:40.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-04-03, 08:39   Link #480
hero147
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
I don't think so.

How do you steal the shadow of a intangible shape whos form is ever changing
I think a better question is whether or not Ace would have a shadow when he's in his element's form. If he engulfs his whole body into flames, he consequently becomes a source of light himself. Just as the sun doesn't have a shadow surrounding it, why would Ace?
hero147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.