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Old 2006-03-10, 19:32   Link #861
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
You hit the nail on the head. All the more reason I think Rozen (The real dude himself not Enju) is a world-class bastard for coming up with the barbaric game no matter how much they say he "loves" the dolls. I guess it's better now because of what he said in ep 12 but still he came up with that.
Hmm, let me comment here.
"Alice" only lives in his head, right? Since Rozen created each doll with a different aspect of her, such perfect woman, doesn't it mean he was blindly in love with his own imagination? I can easly imagine that coming from a guy that looks as young as he does in the series. A person that's love-blinded won't care for anything else.

However, in the end of Traumend, we realize that this might have changed, that he now loves each one of the dolls separatedly. That's what I believe has changed in his nature.

Another thing that I can come up with is that the Alice Game is something created by the dolls themselves in their desire to fulfill Rozen's dream, not being able to think of any other way of turning perfect. Although I don't think this is the most accurate, it's possible.
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Old 2006-03-10, 19:33   Link #862
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Bleh, stupid lag.
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Old 2006-03-10, 19:34   Link #863
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Darn, triple post.
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Old 2006-03-10, 19:41   Link #864
blitz1/2
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Hey Zero, what is your opinion about season 3? What kind of ending do you want for the series?
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Old 2006-03-10, 22:15   Link #865
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Well, I HOPE it doesn't end on Season 3, if you get what I mean =P
But chances are we won't have that joy, unfortunately.

What I want is a bit different from what I expect, though...

I would really love to see Suisei Seki being a bit less picky, and I think that after losing Sousei Seki and Hina Ichigo, she will probably have that changed about her character. I'm also sure Jun will improve a bit more; his character development has been enormous from the beginning of the first series to the end of Traumend and I think that should continue. I'd also love to see Shinku calling Jun "master", instead of "servant", at least once, I'd die for that =P. Anyway, about Shinku... I'm sure she'll still behave a little bit like she has up until now, it's part of her character after all. Suigin Tou is the char that I have the biggest hopes for in terms of character development; I can almost taste the scene where Suigin Tou sits to have some tea with Shinku and group, and feel sorry for what she's done. I'd also like to see some more kewt scenes of Jun and Shinku, like the ones in the last episode of the first season; I'm also expecting Jun to say some sweet things to Shinku. And least but not less important, bring Sousei Seki and Hina Ichigo back. Though they're my least favorite characters (Along with Kanaria <_<), I'm too concerned with the other's feelings to let that pass.

From what I expect... well, I'd say from my experience with anime that we'll certainly have a lot more heartbreaking scenes and a few other sacrifices in order for a better ending to take place. If the third season should feature Kira Kishou and if the rumors of her demented personality are true, then I bet that we'll have to endure a few more episodes where all our hopes are crushed. I like that about Rozen Maiden because it brings my emotions up, something that's quite hard to do.

And one more thing: Don't let Suigin Tou die again, because if she does, then that's gonna be the third time. She'd probably break a record in anime deaths, aside from Goku, maybe.
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Old 2006-03-10, 22:24   Link #866
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I hope Mediums play a bigger role in season 3.



Does Kirakishou have any other attack than the kiss of death?
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Old 2006-03-10, 22:37   Link #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
Well, I HOPE it doesn't end on Season 3, if you get what I mean =P
Hell no dawg, if it does not end on season 3 chances are it may end up like Dragon Ball. I see Season 3 as
that all loose ends fixed, both story wise and character developement wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2
Does Kirakishou have any other attack than the kiss of death?
The most dangerous attack in anime history, Acting cute. (C'mon you know it's dangerous. Have your little sister tried those cute innocent looks on you so she can get what she wanted?)
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Old 2006-03-10, 22:38   Link #868
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I don't know, didn't even hear about that 0.o
I'm still to read the first pages of the topic, though.

Edit:

Quote:
The most dangerous attack in anime history, Acting cute. (C'mon you know it's dangerous. Have your little sister tried those cute innocent looks on you so she can get what she wanted?)
Lol, I bet it won't work on Shinku and the rest... unless they turn to the dark side of the force and become Lesbian Dolls...

But it works quite well on me <_< She's absolutely cute in that pic.
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Last edited by Zero Shinohara; 2006-03-10 at 22:55.
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Old 2006-03-11, 00:32   Link #869
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Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
Well, I HOPE it doesn't end on Season 3, if you get what I mean =P
But chances are we won't have that joy, unfortunately.

What I want is a bit different from what I expect, though...

I would really love to see Suisei Seki being a bit less picky, and I think that after losing Sousei Seki and Hina Ichigo, she will probably have that changed about her character. I'm also sure Jun will improve a bit more; his character development has been enormous from the beginning of the first series to the end of Traumend and I think that should continue. I'd also love to see Shinku calling Jun "master", instead of "servant", at least once, I'd die for that =P. Anyway, about Shinku... I'm sure she'll still behave a little bit like she has up until now, it's part of her character after all. Suigin Tou is the char that I have the biggest hopes for in terms of character development; I can almost taste the scene where Suigin Tou sits to have some tea with Shinku and group, and feel sorry for what she's done. I'd also like to see some more kewt scenes of Jun and Shinku, like the ones in the last episode of the first season; I'm also expecting Jun to say some sweet things to Shinku. And least but not less important, bring Sousei Seki and Hina Ichigo back. Though they're my least favorite characters (Along with Kanaria <_<), I'm too concerned with the other's feelings to let that pass.

From what I expect... well, I'd say from my experience with anime that we'll certainly have a lot more heartbreaking scenes and a few other sacrifices in order for a better ending to take place. If the third season should feature Kira Kishou and if the rumors of her demented personality are true, then I bet that we'll have to endure a few more episodes where all our hopes are crushed. I like that about Rozen Maiden because it brings my emotions up, something that's quite hard to do.

And one more thing: Don't let Suigin Tou die again, because if she does, then that's gonna be the third time. She'd probably break a record in anime deaths, aside from Goku, maybe.

Having Shinku call Jun "master" is simply unimaginable to me. Doing so would mean shifting her character from being strong and determined to being coy and submissive and a submissive Shinku is something I can't see happening (and trust me, I've imagined quite a few odd and scary things in my life ) . Also Suigintou IMO is best when she is being the polar opposite to Shinku and having her come around and apologize is too much of a turn-around in terms of personality. I can see her having tea with the other dolls but she will do so grudgingly and maybe with a little push from Meg-chan should Meg ever meet the other dolls or their mediums.
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Old 2006-03-11, 01:03   Link #870
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Having Shinku call Jun "master" is simply unimaginable to me. Doing so would mean shifting her character from being strong and determined to being coy and submissive and a submissive Shinku is something I can't see happening (and trust me, I've imagined quite a few odd and scary things in my life ) . Also Suigintou IMO is best when she is being the polar opposite to Shinku and having her come around and apologize is too much of a turn-around in terms of personality. I can see her having tea with the other dolls but she will do so grudgingly and maybe with a little push from Meg-chan should Meg ever meet the other dolls or their mediums.
No no, don't get me wrong on what I meant there. I didn't really mean Suigin Tou going like "I'm sorry I've been so cruel and bad to all of you" and have tears fall. I wouldn't expect (and even like to see, in particular) that to happen. To me, even a different expression in her face would mean a lot, if they brought the subject up somewhere.
And yeah, I agree that there would have to be such a special occasion for her to sit down and have some tea with her sisters, certainly. I think Jun wouldn't accept her around in the first place too, since what she's done to Shinku in the end of the first season; that would be interesting to see. And about Shinku, I didn't really mean her calling him "master" all the time, only in an special occasion, like we see throughout the anime, with her different personality shifts. (One time she's saddened and introspective and something happens, she goes back being bossy. )

Quote:
Hell no dawg, if it does not end on season 3 chances are it may end up like Dragon Ball. I see Season 3 as
that all loose ends fixed, both story wise and character developement wise.
Forgot to mention this on the other topic.
But I don't think it would be all that bad. Because Rozen Maiden has features of many different types of anime, I guess that having a season only for comedy wouldn't be a thing that hard to expect.
Take for example, Full Metal Panic. We're definetly expecting a fourth series, but considering that Fumoffu was only comedy and no pieces of storyline in it, the real story would sum up to only three (or even two, if they stop it at TSR.).
I guess that having four seasons for Rozen Maiden would be a bit too much, since it would just tire up the fans. But I think that if they were able to make 2 series out of 6 manga volumes (I would guess that the entire Traumend could be summed up into only two volumes, if done right), they would definetly be able to make a 24 episode one, or even longer. I say this because I find Rozen Maiden to have a storyline that could be extended much farther than we've seen up to now and than what we expect.

But again, unfortunately, I think that Rozen Maiden fans are a minority; that has a great impact on their decision to make another series or not. After all, it's all about profit. If they guessed that making Suigin Tou dance in a strip club would sell...they'd probably do that.
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Old 2006-03-11, 01:20   Link #871
physics223
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When my Internet connection came back in the last week of January, I unconsciously downloaded and finished all viewable subbed Bleach episodes, but I wasn't really able to enjoy it as I once did. Too much subplots (as can be expected with shounen anime) seem to lessen my enjoyment.

The first real anime series I watched was Rozen Maiden. I loved it, finished it within two days, and almost flunked an exam because of it. After I finished season one I went on with Traumend and enjoyed it similarly.

The charm of Rozen Maiden is the characters' versatility that although you don't like them immediately (I mean, who liked Jun or Shinku immediately?) they grow on you and improve as the series goes on. As the first was character-driven the second was plot-driven - both series are excellent, and no matter what other people say about dolls this will belong to my top 10 perhaps ... perhaps my top 5.

I recommended Hiatari Ryoukou and Ergo Proxy to you. Why?

I put Rozen Maiden in between these two anime, and that's why I like Rozen Maiden so much. It maintains the balance of a solid plot and great characters without succumbing to common love-plots. It in fact, is in a class by itself. All that's jolly good!

Hiatari Ryoukou is better than Rozen Maiden in terms of its characters. None of them are obnoxious at first - they don't just grow on you, you'll like them immediately! The weak part is the plot, because it's a typical sports-romance anime. Yes. The kind that is too character-driven, but is still good.

Its total opposite is Ergo Proxy. Its plot is dense, deep, arcane, mystifiying, and yet wholly engrossing. Like a jigsaw-puzzler the viewer is tasked to organize the pieces of the plot. The characters, though, are more than obnoxious than both HR and RM. They are meant to be real people, so they tend to be odious. Excellent heroine, if only for the face, and definitely a wonderful plot.

And then there's Rozen Maiden - in between, managing the mesh of character and plot. I just recommend good extremes of this anime ...

This may change in the future, though. I may like EP or HR more than RM or RM:T, but be sure that RM/RM:T places in my top ten ...
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Old 2006-03-11, 01:42   Link #872
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Well I have to admit that I wasn't expecting much from Rozen Maiden, after all, "it's an anime about dolls, probably one of those fill-in animes.". That changed after the first 15 minutes of the first episode. I think that men normally have this mental block against girly things =P But after watching it and seeing how much it affected me and how much it linked to my own personal story, I even DID ask my mother 500 bucks to buy a Shinku doll (read here that there's one for about that ransom. ), obviously I was kidding and I don't have 500 USD to spend on something like that (yet >P), but I think I got over that mental block that I had.

Anyhow, RM is a very well developed anime, certainly. Like you said, the characters grow in you. I'm sure that a lot of the people who love Suigin Tou now didn't think the same back in season 1, until the last episodes or so, and then Traumend with her small change of heart. I used to dislike Suisei Seki in the first episodes she appeared, but then, without knowing, I started to go along with her and she ended up showing herself to be very sweet at times. One scene I will never forget is when she had just made the contract with Jun and was trying to read his math workbook upside down. At the time she said that her "grandmother" used to read for her every night, I simply fell apart.

It's really rare to find such great pieces of art like RM, that's for sure.

Right now, I can't put RM on my top list because if I go by the feelings I'm having, I'd probably say it's number one, but that would be only a bad judgement.
> Damn, announce that third season already, so I can just expect the year to pass like a flash. <
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Old 2006-03-11, 01:57   Link #873
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I hope Suisei wouldnt be less picky.. thats her lovable trait for her.. and I love her for that ...

Stinku, in a way, have sorts of acknowledged Jun by the end of season 1 ... Any more so would be soo out of character for her.. In season 2, she just too shy to show her real feeling to Jun, she love him, but too proud to admit it ..

Gin-sama is fine the way she is, but yea, killing her for the umpteenth of time is just

You know, I actually download RM because I thought it was kinda like detective story damn Jekyll's av for misleading me
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Old 2006-03-11, 02:10   Link #874
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Originally Posted by Kira_Naruto

You know, I actually download RM because I thought it was kinda like detective story damn Jekyll's av for misleading me
hahaha is that so?

Rozen Season III
Detective Shinku: The Case of the Missing Rosa Mystica!
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Old 2006-03-11, 07:38   Link #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
One scene I will never forget is when she had just made the contract with Jun and was trying to read his math workbook upside down. At the time she said that her "grandmother" used to read for her every night, I simply fell apart.
That has to be my favourite scene. Especially later on, the super cute scene of her on Jun's lap. "that x shows promise!" I think she said. Thats what I love about SuiseiSeki, her pickiness and manipulative ways actually give way to a soft and kinda insecure core full of cuteness.
<-------Hence
Why did I start watching RM. A friend recommended it to me, but once he said it was about a bunch of dolls fighting it kinda put me off. I mean, dolls. Still he insisted, and I'm very glad I did start watching (I think it was because I had nothing else to watch, so decided to try it out, got hooked right from the start...by... Jun, of all people. I wanted to find out more about his character). One of my friends I recommended the show to said it was much better than he had expected, and for me that was true too. I'm suprised how much these dolls have grown on me.
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Old 2006-03-11, 08:47   Link #876
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I'm sure Suiseiseki will enjoy Math if she was taking it.
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Old 2006-03-11, 12:18   Link #877
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Location: Taking care of Barasuishou and Kirakishou under 1 roof. @_@
LOL I laughed at this. Quite a burden it must be =P

Quote:
got hooked right from the start...by... Jun, of all people. I wanted to find out more about his character). One of my friends I recommended the show to said it was much better than he had expected, and for me that was true too. I'm suprised how much these dolls have grown on me.
Yeah, I guess that's the same for everyone that watches it and gives the least chance of liking the series. The way they insert Jun in the story and show his changing character really amazes me.

If you get Jun from the first episode, he barely left his room. After Shinku's appearance, he was suddenly living with three special and noisy dolls, along with his sister. From the second episode on, you see that he's already going down to eat with them (Stair Wars episode; No matter how you look at it and say that was a filler, I think that one in particular had a lot of impact on his way of acting. I wouldn't imagine him doing things like that before.), playing with them, and going out of his house on their sake (buying Hina Ichigo's strawberry daifuku). In a sense I understand him and his likelyness to be eager for human contact, since he's 12, hasn't been to school and simply denied the existance of his sister for a few months. Or maybe I just try to analyze too much.

But one thing I found out after watching Rozen Maiden, and that's not to pre-judge anime for their main contents. It's a doll anime, but the way these dolls act is beyond human. Their feelings, hopes and sadness, you get it perfectly.

Quote:
I'm sure Suiseiseki will enjoy Math if she was taking it.
I don't think so. She's the impatient type of person and I think she's definetly the type to be taking classes she would REALLY like =p

Edit:
Yay! I might have a drawing of Gin and Shinku having tea together =P
Decided to do it, after all.

Work in Progressz
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Last edited by Zero Shinohara; 2006-03-11 at 21:50.
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Old 2006-03-12, 02:59   Link #878
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Wow you drew that from scratch? I'm probably asking too much but could you do one of SuiseiSeki while she was on Jun's lap reading the Math book? Or any other picture you have of her...
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Old 2006-03-12, 03:13   Link #879
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I've posted that on the Fan Work (or something like that) section of the forums, too. I'll release a bigger version when I finish some of the crap I made <_< And yeah, it's from scratch, took me about 6 hours to finish, but again, I'm working with inkpen and a mouse, so it's not as fast as a tablet :\

And YES, SuiseiSeki FTW. I'll see if I can pull that off tomorrow.
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Old 2006-03-12, 04:18   Link #880
physics223
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I think you should change your ava and sig to any RM character, Zero ... you'll probably be happier.

As for me ... hmm ... hmm ... better find THE picture.
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