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Old 2006-03-19, 22:42   Link #1061
physics223
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Hell, if it was for the cash, they'd probably change Jun's name to Eminem ...

Over vacation I plan to rewatch RM and RMT. Right now, I have heaping exams, papers, and the like, but I still love chatting about Rozen Maiden. I don't want to read manga ... it spoils the fun of loving the anime Rozen Maiden.

I read the manga in Bleach because ... well ... the anime sucks right now, and it's only going to be a downward spiral.

I'd love being a permanent garbage collector if all women who thought of themselves as Junk looked as hawt as Gin-sama ... Gin-sama ... Gin-sama aaaah ...



My desktop is for Gin-sama alone! Yatta!

If they ever changed Suigintou's name to Junk ... one day, you'd see Tokyopop in ashes, burnt by napalm ... bwahahaha ... lol

CUTE = Hina Ichigo ... yep yep yep ...

HOT = Suigintou ... yep yep yep ... (anyone who doesn't agree will die!)

GREAT = Rozen Maiden dolls!!! EVERYONE AGREE!!!
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Old 2006-03-19, 22:50   Link #1062
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Talk about creepy otakus.


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Old 2006-03-19, 23:03   Link #1063
physics223
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But seriously ... Senior Member sounds so ... old.

I'm back to my normal, controlled self ... ?

Of note in the anime is the aptness of the songs. We've already talked about Hikari no Rasenritsu, but the OPs and EDs most often fit the series itself. Who can forget about the creepy OP of Traumend singing to the tune of Polish mazurka? Or of the first mellow ending, Toumei Shelter?
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:09   Link #1064
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EDIT : nvm
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:15   Link #1065
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
I will jump off from the world's tallest twin tower.
You wouldn't fall that much, "Remember 9/11"

Quote:
Yes thats actually quite true... Thinking on it now, another aspect to it: do you remember in the last two eps of RM, when Jun protected Shinku and comforted her? Would that be considered motherly? Nah, I don't think so.. Maybe more Fatherly HAHA Or a boyfriend kinda feeling... eeew..
Actually, I think that it's not anything related to passionate love for Shinku. It's more like Family love. Because it's what they are, in the end: part of Jun's family.
You know, someone that has changed so much in you, for the best, I don't really think that a normal person wouldn't feel any kind of feeling for that someone. That's Jun's story.

Also, you know how they always ask... "Do you love him?" (Hotaru and Sousei Seki)? I don't really think that they speak of passionate love, wanting to become his girlfriend (Which is as strange as it sounds.). I think that it's more of this caring for thing. Because, as dolls, I bet they've been through many and many other masters (or servants, in the special case of Shinku). They might have been treated well by some, or maybe mistreated by others. Since Jun's fairly a nice guy, and cares about them as much as they do for him, I think this whole relationship is more family-type.


Edit: Wow, didn't see this page coming.

Yes, I really do agree with that: The OPs fit perfectly the theme of Rozen Maiden. There's even a line in Kinjirareta Asobi that goes: "...Another one will perish tonight". I saw that translation and thought that it fitted in perfectly.
The songs REALLY are kind of creepy. Specially the Traumend OP (Although the OP sequence is way cutter than in Rozen Maiden, where you simply didn't get anything at all from the anime in the OP. It was definetly strange in a way too. ).
I don't really like Toumei Shelter, don't know why. Probably it's because I'm not much into songs that start like that. Personal taste, I guess.

Edit2:
Kira, express yourself =P
By the way, mind telling me who's that girl in your avatar? Judging by the animation quality, i'd say it's a new anime? It's just curiosity, since I'm as fanatic for long pink-haired anime girls as physics is for Gin.
AND NICE WALL. I wish I had that one.
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:25   Link #1066
Lost
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Yep I agree with you. Adding to what you said, with that SuiseiSeki and Jun master-slave episode in Traumend, I felt it was more of Sui wanting Jun's affections and attentions, rather than passionate love. I supposed that can be applied to most of the dolls, even Shinku or Gin..

Edit:
Quote:
You wouldn't fall that much, "Remember 9/11"
Well not exactly, if Dark Steno went to the Twin Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, he would have 452 meters to fall
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:33   Link #1067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
Wow, one thing I just found out is that SHINKU is being translated to SHIKU.
That could just be a typo on the description page. Removing the n wouldn't make Shinku any easier to pronounce, I think.
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:34   Link #1068
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I supposed that can be applied to most of the dolls, even Shinku or Gin..
You remember when Shinku told Gin that "They were made to love humans, not harm them"? Well, Gin's no difference. And we get that in Traumend. Even though she still acts tough and badass in front of the others, she's not doing it for her own sake anymore, she's doing it for Megu. Gin was changed because she experienced human affection once, because it's what she was MADE to do. Since both of them have very similar problems, they fit perfectly with each-other.
The case with Suisei Seki is similar, too. Even though she realized she'd been picky on him, she still wanted him to look after her and like her. I was a bit pissed at Jun when he only apologized to Hina instead of Suisei aswell, when they blew the egg's crap outt'a the microwave. You see that Suisei Seki was hurt there, but I don't think anyone would have a different reaction, since Hina's never picked on Jun, but Suisei's another story.

Quote:
That could just be a typo on the description page. Removing the n wouldn't make Shinku any easier to pronounce, I think.
Yeap, I know, I know. But you know how they like to change things around. Besides, without the "N" there, we wouldn't have Suigin Tou say those creepy-ass "Shinnnnnkuuu"s that she does so well
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:37   Link #1069
physics223
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I mean ... there is some foreboding with the OP. One realizes that eventually, something bad will happen because the weakness of the dolls AS dolls are shown. Their bare joints, obvious with divisions not found in humans, are to show that they are only dolls after all.

A cocktail of that with an eerie yet lively song, and we have great art. Amidst the dancing and the song, we know there is some inquination (!) inside ... there is a festering ... there is eventual death ...

It is a troubling OP (for Traumend). But the OP of season one is troubling as well.
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:39   Link #1070
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One thing I don't get is that part where Hina Ichigo and Kanaria change roses to one another while sitting on a chess table (lol.). I get Suisei Seki and Sousei Seki holding hands together, it's quite a cute scene too.

There's also the scene where Shinku's taken away by a hand, with a troubled look in her face.

Jeeezuz, have we been going in-depth with this, haven't we?
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:40   Link #1071
Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
Since both of them have very similar problems, they fit perfectly with each-other.
Yeah, I still remember when Gin asked Megu to sing that song (Shun) for her and scolded Megu for calling herself Junk. Loved that part. From the start both of them had what I like to call Junk-complexes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
The case with Suisei Seki is similar, too. Even though she realized she'd been picky on him, she still wanted him to look after her and like her. I was a bit pissed at Jun when he only apologized to Hina instead of Suisei aswell, when they blew the egg's crap outt'a the microwave. You see that Suisei Seki was hurt there, but I don't think anyone would have a different reaction, since Hina's never picked on Jun, but Suisei's another story.
Very well put. In fact thats one of the scenes (plus the bedtime story scene) that really made Sui for me. I felt for her in that scene.
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:41   Link #1072
physics223
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Suiseiseki is annoying because she can't be direct with her emotions; instead, she projects her anger to others (like poor Hina Ichigo). Of course, by the time I finished the first season I liked everyone of them, but she wasn't easy to like when compared to Shinku ... I mean, Shinku may be snobby and haughty, but it has been continually proven that she really cared for Jun. Suiseiseki cares for Jun ... but her insidious behavior towards Hina Ichigo is something I don't really like.
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:43   Link #1073
solwyvern
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Quote:
Originally Posted by physics223


My desktop is for Gin-sama alone! Yatta!
Can I agree w/ you on that?
My desktop.

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Old 2006-03-19, 23:47   Link #1074
Zero Shinohara
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I felt for her in that scene.
It's funny because, with RM, you're first taught to HATE the characters before loving them.

Seriously, who didn't find Jun hella' annoying in the first episode, when all he could do was tell his sister she was annoying?
Or who loved Shinku at first sight when you were made believe she was controlling that puppet to kill Jun and acted so natural?
Or who liked Hina Ichigo when all she did was cry, scream and be selfish?
Or who liked Suisei Seki when all she did was pick on Hina, Jun and be a biatchz sometimes?
Seriously, who fell in love with Suigin Tou in the beginning, when all she did was make a fuss and trying to break the other dolls?
Or Sousei Seki, who could only think about his master.
OR EVEN his master, which in the beginning was just this completely obnoxious old man with no other thing in his head beside his deceased son?
Even Bara Suishou! "Heck, she's just a biatch and wants to get all the Roza Misticae for herself!". In the end you then learn she's just doing it to prove herself to her father, Enju. Then you feel a bit of pity of her aswel.

RM is quite unique because of that. You're not expected to like the characters at first, but then you learn to love them. I'm telling ya, there's a lot of psychological stuff going on.
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:48   Link #1075
Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by physics223
Suiseiseki is annoying because she can't be direct with her emotions; instead, she projects her anger to others (like poor Hina Ichigo). Of course, by the time I finished the first season I liked everyone of them, but she wasn't easy to like when compared to Shinku ... I mean, Shinku may be snobby and haughty, but it has been continually proven that she really cared for Jun. Suiseiseki cares for Jun ... but her insidious behavior towards Hina Ichigo is something I don't really like.
I see I see... actually thats exactly what I like about Sui. Haha.. her inability to be direct with her emotions, to me, that makes her cute. And the stuff she does to Hina, I dont really find them irritating (maybe because I have yet to finish Traumend), insidious yes, but funny and all-in-all harmless (keep in mind I haven finished Traumend), and her actions just goes to characterise her even more as one who is too proud to speak her emotions. She's one crazy doll..

edit:
@Zero: OMG you're right!! Theres a conspiracy going down I tell ya...


edit2:
@solwyvern: Hey cool...where did you get those cool infomation tabs on the bottom right of your desk?
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:49   Link #1076
solwyvern
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
Seriously, who fell in love with Suigin Tou in the beginning, when all she did was make a fuss and trying to break the other dolls?

Even Bara Suishou! "Heck, she's just a biatch and wants to get all the Roza Misticae for herself!".
I fell in love with that no questions asked.
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:50   Link #1077
Zero Shinohara
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Are you from Soviet Russia?

(Hah, I've learned it :P)


Edit:

Sorry guys, but the time has come =\ Can't stay all night since Tuesday's testing day, and I'm yet to finish studying for it. Besides I'll be most likely awaken in the middle of my heavenly sleep by my mother so I can go help her out with her work, or by my brothers screaming and yelling because they just DON'T GET TIRED of playing on 3 comps at the same time <_<

GN All (Or good day, lol.)
Hopefully I'll come earlier in the morning, and I won't be so lost.
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Old 2006-03-19, 23:54   Link #1078
physics223
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When Suigintou saw others who felt the same way as her, she probably realized how idiotic she was when she pitied herself: she also saw how much Shinku really cared for her. She then made it to herself to help others like her, and then, realizing deeply that she did not want to be Alice anymore: there were more important things in the world, like Megu.

I liked Suigintou more in the second season. Granted, it was totally pertinent of her to act that way in the first season: I read in classic books of how people try so hard to please others, to be perfect. I also think that a lot of people from Singapore and Japan are fans of this anime because they see themselves in Jun. With six-day weeks in Singapore and Japan (so I've heard from some people [no, not you, Lost]) and seven-day weeks in Korea such is the state of some of the adolescents like Jun who bank so much on their academic achievement that when they fail it becomes the end of the world for them. They then seal themselves in their rooms ... check out Hikikomori

Suigintou, then realizing a better cause for her than to be Alice, wanted to help her master to end Megu's suffering. Noble causes - even that of Bara - she just wanted to please Enju.

When one really looks upon Rozen Maiden, there is neither good nor bad as all of them are only driven to what they feel they need to do. No one wanted to be Alice for the sake of being Alice - even Souseiseki wanted to please Father.

If anyone would ever be a villain here, it would be Rozen, as Zero (I think) stated in pages before because she made those dolls only to destroy one another ... to become Alice. This is a wonderful change of pace from those who anime who define evil and good so sharply (Bleach) -- because the real world has mostly different shades of gray in it.

Only certain aspects like slavery, for example, can be truly considered evil - and not many ideas or actions belong in the black.
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Old 2006-03-20, 00:00   Link #1079
physics223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
It's funny because, with RM, you're first taught to HATE the characters before loving them.

Seriously, who didn't find Jun hella' annoying in the first episode, when all he could do was tell his sister she was annoying?
Or who loved Shinku at first sight when you were made believe she was controlling that puppet to kill Jun and acted so natural?
Or who liked Hina Ichigo when all she did was cry, scream and be selfish?
Or who liked Suisei Seki when all she did was pick on Hina, Jun and be a biatchz sometimes?
Seriously, who fell in love with Suigin Tou in the beginning, when all she did was make a fuss and trying to break the other dolls?
Or Sousei Seki, who could only think about his master.
OR EVEN his master, which in the beginning was just this completely obnoxious old man with no other thing in his head beside his deceased son?
Even Bara Suishou! "Heck, she's just a biatch and wants to get all the Roza Misticae for herself!". In the end you then learn she's just doing it to prove herself to her father, Enju. Then you feel a bit of pity of her aswel.

RM is quite unique because of that. You're not expected to like the characters at first, but then you learn to love them. I'm telling ya, there's a lot of psychological stuff going on.
I mentioned that in my comparison posts on how Rozen Maiden attains a perfect balance between a character and plot driven story. I mentioned Hiatari Ryoukou, where you'll probably like the characters almost immediately, but the plot is lacking because the characters are the plot themselves. I also mentioned Ergo Proxy, where the plot is multi-layered and pastiched, but the characters (even the lead ones) are odious because they are human and they are distant.

Then I mentioned Rozen Maiden, which obtained the perfect balance between character and plot. I also mentioned that although you didn't really like the characters immediately, you develop a slow love for them, and the plot is not as convoluted as Ergo Proxy, so it's just perfect.

It's not really a conspiracy: it's simply just a well made anime.
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Old 2006-03-20, 00:00   Link #1080
Zero Shinohara
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If anyone would ever be a villain here, it would be Rozen, as Zero (I think) stated in pages before because she made those dolls only to destroy one another ... to become Alice. This is a wonderful change of pace from those who anime who define evil and good so sharply (Bleach) -- because the real world has mostly different shades of gray in it.

Only certain aspects like slavery, for example, can be truly considered evil - and not many ideas or actions belong in the black.
Last post!

It wasn't actually me who said he's the villain, I just agreed, but in some sort of "forgiving" way. I said that he'd probably created them because of his selfish love or because of his inability to create a girl who'd be perfect in his eyes. However, seeing Traumend, I believe he has changed a bit, loving more his own creation, his own living dolls, his own daughters, than his imaginary girlfriend.
Or the Alice game could be a complete hoax, created by Rozen himself to see if his dolls had the ability to do what they believe is right, rather than only following orders.

Quote:
It's not really a conspiracy: it's simply just a well made anime.
Well, I wouldn't really say it's a conspiracy. I meant "psychological stuff" for the sole purpose of saying that the anime really changes your mind as you watch it, and that they did a really good job doing that
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