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Old 2006-03-24, 21:51   Link #1421
Lost
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I'm making this post with blurry vision. At least... I'm happy that Hina "died" peacefully... It was terribly awful, I feel like crap... but at least she didnt get torn apart by Gin, Bara or Kira, I would have died if that happened. I would also have gotten immeasurably pissed at whoever killed her or the staff-writers. At least she went peacefully. Altho right know I want to kill Rozen.

Thinking about it, wasnt it Shinku who defeated Hina in S1?

Yes Alu, I loved that part to, it really really embodied Suiseiseki. You can also see at the end, Sou winks out with a smile. I felt at that moment that she was satisfied with her choice of persuing Alice, even tho it meant giving a world of hurt to her twin sister. God I wanna kill Rozen. And Laplace. ESPECIALLY Laplace.

Haiz I still don't see why Hina had to go, other than to give Stinku more power..
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Old 2006-03-24, 21:52   Link #1422
Thewanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmandan
1. Why did Rozen bring back Kanaria, Sinku, Suiseiseki and those other two evil dolls, but not Hina Ichigo and Souseiseki. I mean comon?! wtf?! Is it because Hina Ichigo and Souseiseki were defeated by Rozen Maiden's within the original Rozen's creations?
You forgot Suigintou. And Rozen don't have any evil dolls that they've shown yet...
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Old 2006-03-24, 22:00   Link #1423
TamaNeko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
Haiz I still don't see why Hina had to go, other than to give Stinku more power..
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Old 2006-03-24, 22:03   Link #1424
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Bad Shinku... Bad....
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Old 2006-03-24, 22:03   Link #1425
Mincemaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
God I wanna kill Rozen. And Laplace. ESPECIALLY Laplace.
Here's a Peregrin Falcon and a Blunderbuss. Now go and hunt Laplace, and we be getting our Laplace and Carrot Stew.
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Old 2006-03-24, 22:03   Link #1426
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Yes that comic makes sense now. NOoooo... KunKun can never replace Hina!!

Btw, in Ep10 Sui says: "I'm sure that Hina Ichigo and Sousei Seki will come back one day." Now, in regard to a Season 3, if the writers put this in just to play around with us... UNFORGIVABLE. But, it might point to a happy Season3. I'm hoping...

@Mincemaker: I'm gonna savour every spoonful of that stew..
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Old 2006-03-24, 22:05   Link #1427
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Quote:
Here's a Peregrin Falcon and a Blunderbuss. Now go and hunt Laplace, and we be getting our Laplace and Carrot Stew.
Elmer Fudd FTW...lol
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Old 2006-03-24, 22:09   Link #1428
Dark Steno
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why dont you read all through the thread milkmandan?
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Old 2006-03-24, 22:20   Link #1429
Mincemaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters
Elmer Fudd FTW...lol
Elmer Fudd did not have a Peregrin Falcon, which is why he sucked.

Peregrin's are natural in rabbit and Laplace hunting.

Or maybe we should drag with us Tuxedo Eagle instead?
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Old 2006-03-24, 22:36   Link #1430
blitz1/2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmandan
Ok i know this series finished like a while ago. but i just happened to start watching my archive and i came upon Rozen Maiden.

I powered watched the whole series in 1 day, and upon finishing it, i somehow feel as if I was left hanging...

Anyone care to talk about the ending with me?

Here are a series of questions:
1. Why did Rozen bring back Kanaria, Sinku, Suiseiseki and those other two evil dolls, but not Hina Ichigo and Souseiseki. I mean comon?! wtf?! Is it because Hina Ichigo and Souseiseki were defeated by Rozen Maiden's within the original Rozen's creations?

2. Whats up with that scene with the rabbit and Bara Suishou in the end, where they are flying through all them doors and the rabbit is holding the two Rosa Mystica. I understand they are Hina Ichigo's and Souseiseki's Rosa, but why does he have them? O_O

3. Why was Bara Suishou breaking up in the end? Was it because of deceitful intent?

4. Is the rabbit Rozen himself? Thats the conjecture Jun made near the end. And if so, how come Rozen appeared again as someone else.

5. Why does Sinku have to bear the burden of finding a solution for Souseiseki and Hina Ichigo. Is there going to be a 3rd season for this reason? I am guessing not, but i never know. There were too many things left hanging that would suggest this.

This series was really enjoyable with fancy colors and awesome music, but dang the story is confusing. -_- Anyone care to explain what and WHY things happened? I feeling just as much confused upon finishing EVA, Saikano or Gunslinger Girl. There seems to be a sort of an end, but very very vauge and not making 100% sense as to WHY things happened.

*runs out and buys the LE Region 2 Boxset from Japan
Oh man.

First of all, Barasuishou is not a true Rozen Maiden (unfortunately). She crumbled because she can't hold the Roza Mystica altogether because she is not a creation of Rozen.

Barasuishou DID NOT appear in the end with Laplace. That doll is Kirakishou, the goddess, who is the real Seventh doll of Rozen Maiden. There is a different in eyepatch locations, clothing and skin color.
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Old 2006-03-24, 22:53   Link #1431
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hmmm... Morale of the story. When making (or trying to make) a Rozen Maiden, make sure they can contain the power of 7 Rozen Mysticae!! Dumb Enju.
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Old 2006-03-24, 23:00   Link #1432
Dark Steno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2
Oh man.

First of all, Barasuishou is not a true Rozen Maiden (unfortunately). She crumbled because she can't hold the Roza Mystica altogether because she is not a creation of Rozen.

Barasuishou DID NOT appear in the end with Laplace. That doll is Kirakishou, the goddess, who is the real Seventh doll of Rozen Maiden. There is a different in eyepatch locations, clothing and skin color.
Yeah... and the rose suddenly popped out from the eye patch.
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Old 2006-03-24, 23:02   Link #1433
blitz1/2
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Bara's got a tan. ^_^


As for Kira's eyepatch, I expect just as much from the goddess.
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Old 2006-03-24, 23:14   Link #1434
Catgirls
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This is a somewhat large animated GIF I cut some months ago. It kind of works, but it doesn't fully flow well due to the particle physics.
Spoiler:

The hair works, but the flying plant shards don't. Too bad. Lovely scene. Posted for anyone collecting.
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Old 2006-03-24, 23:23   Link #1435
blitz1/2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirls
This is a somewhat large animated GIF I cut some months ago. It kind of works, but it doesn't fully flow well due to the particle physics.
Spoiler:

The hair works, but the flying plant shards don't. Too bad. Lovely scene. Posted for anyone collecting.
Oh thanks! Can I use it?


(Yes, more Barasuishou!)
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Old 2006-03-24, 23:26   Link #1436
Catgirls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2
Oh thanks! Can I use it?
You can do what you want with it (your web-site, blog, etc.), but it won't work as an avatar. It's too large. I cut it wide to get her lovely long hair in the shot. Plus, I left in almost every frame of the animation...for the sake of fluidity.
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Old 2006-03-24, 23:44   Link #1437
solwyvern
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Thanks Catgirls!!! Is there a bigger size?
*edit: oh yeah, for those waiting for the wallpaper, please wait a little bit longer, it's taking longerr than i thought... *angry voice* Sui~ - gin~ - tou~!!! it's all her fault! but, wow, is she pretty!
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Old 2006-03-24, 23:49   Link #1438
Lost
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My Analysis

I know something like this was probably written some 40 or so pages before, but I want to share my tots/views on Traumend as a whole, now that I've finished it.

Overall thoughts, a great series; if not better than the first season, I would say its exactly on par with RM1. (for a sequel to live up to its predecessor is a feat IMO). I think I like Traumend better than RM1. Traumend made me cry, and thats a very rare feat, even RM didnt make me cry (hmm.. I think it was because they was nothing to cry about in RM). This season also had wonderful wonderful music, I love the OST, first there was Hikari no Rasenritsu, then megu's song, Shun; I also especially like the song Rozenkristall from the OST because it was played at all the emotional parts in the last few episodes, its a very moving song. All-in-all, I think I like Traumend because together with the funny, ultra-chibi and cute moments that made me laugh out loud, there was also sadness and darkness... In other words, emotionally wise, it moved the whole spectrum of emotions.

With regard to characterisation, I would like to cut and paste Alu's previous post on characterisation here. Sui, Shinku, Gin and Hina had very very good characterisation from the start, especially the way they changed from season1, they were the essence of Traumend. You can see Hina really did mature from her "death" episode, when she comforted Tomoe. Very touching. Sou was given some focus in the later episodes, when we saw the kind of character she was, in pursuing the Alice Game even tho it cost her and her sister dearly. It wasn't exactly admirable, but who can blame her? Alu got it when she said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alu
I simply loved the part where Sui is trying to convince Sou as not to fight, where she says that all she wants is to remain with her, despite loving father.., if it means to lose her aswell, she'd rather not become Alice.. - hearing this you can realy see that Sou realises that Sui is right but its realy too late for her..; in fact.. she says it herself " its too late.., I can't go back now "...

To me I think what lead Sou to say that was... if we are not true to our choices, we stop beeing who we are..; even if at the end we realise the implications of the choices we made..
Thus she probably even realised she would lose, despite giving all of her heart and devotion in a last burst to show that she was in fact beeing true to her choice.
Its just simply... beautiful...
SuiseiSeki was mine favourite, and now at the end, shes even more appealing because of the focus she got in the later episodes in how she did not want to use violence, as Shinku put it; did not want to hate, not want to be hated; also how she loved all the dolls so much, especially her sister, and if being Alice meant fighting with them, how she did not want to be Alice. Strong doll, as Sou admitted. (flashback, under the tree)

I think that this series revolved around the issue of the means used to acheive an end, in this case, whether violence should be used to acheive perfection. Jun embraced that issue when he said to Shinku in Ep12: "But... if she can only be born through your fighting, then theres no way something like that is right." I don't know, I felt it was a moral show. And in the last episode, when Jun was shouting to Rozen, asking him if this was what he wanted, telling him that each of the dolls loved him for decades and centuries and then asked that poignant question.. "Why won't you love them?"... Wow.. I loved that part.

Animation-wise, the animation was flawless, nice, clean, bright and believable (for some reason I liked whenever they showed the outside of the hospital Meg was in). For those who watched the lower-quality ones...

My thoughts on the last episode:

The last fight between Bara and Shinku was very nice!! When they started using the other doll's powers... that was cool. I wish it could have been longer, but its nice the way it was.

As for the previous discussion on Rozen's intention for the dolls and Alice Game, well I don't think the end shed anylight on that. I wish that they gave Rozen more air time; wish they did not keep him so mysterious. At least now we know that Alice can be reached by other means. LapLace too... As much as I would like having him for a Stew, I would like to know his background. As for Enju, we know he was a deceitful vain fool with an inferiority master complex, I wonder what happened to him?

As for the actual ending, I wouldnt say that there was a real end for Traumend. For one, Kira was revealed at the end. Now... Why would they go thru the trouble of drawing that doll for Animation if they were not going to continue. You don't just introduce a new character and end the series. Further, LapLace still had Sou's and Hina's RosaMysti, no way anyone is letting him go like that. Secondly, like Shinku said, she had to find a solution; whether to becoming Alice without violence, or bring Hina and Sou back I do not know, but that seems pretty much to me like plot material. It seems they were laying a foundation for another season. It was a cliff-hanger ending of-sorts. I'm pretty sure that, if the studio doesnt go bankrupt or get destroyed by an earthquake or something, there will be a Season 3. I am banking heavily on a third season for RM.

For me, seeing Sou and Hina put off on the sofa like that... it felt wrong... very wrong. Maybe I just can't believe that Hina is just one of those normal dolls now. Sob.

Last comment: Enjoyed Traumend thoroughly, will keep it awhile before I rewatch it, and will continue to be a crazed fanboy of Sui.

Last edited by Lost; 2006-03-25 at 00:07.
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Old 2006-03-24, 23:55   Link #1439
Dark Steno
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As Träumend means Dreaming in Germans, what would be the title for the next season if there is one?
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Old 2006-03-24, 23:56   Link #1440
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Shinku in season 3 (~^_^~)
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