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Old 2006-01-17, 16:26   Link #161
gonzo
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Some extra thoughts:

How gets life into dolls? There are at least three ways.

(1) They have an artificial spirit. Interesting enough, the artificial spirits of the Rozen Maiden dolls can act free floating, independent of the dolls' bodies.

(2) They have Roza Mystica. This is bound to the body, it cannot be removed, but leaves the body, if the doll "dies".

These two variants are specific to Rozen Maiden. What is "death" to a Rozen Maiden? Loss of artificial spirit or loss of Roza Mystica? IMHO, Roza Mystica is not the concept of life but the concept of power ...

(3) Dolls have a soul. It is invisible. If lost, it might be gained back, under lucky circumstances. This kind of soul needs neither Roza M. nor Artificial S. Example: The clown at Jun's.

(4) Some dolls, e.g. Rozen Maiden, need winding. This is "mechanical life", sort of.

How gets life into Alice? If introduced only through Roza M. or Artifical S., we can expect not much more than a hyper-RozenMaiden. This would be a perfect girl doll, but never a perfect girl, because it will remain inhuman (whatever humanity may denote). As Shinku said: "Dolls are other than humans. They can seek for perfection."

Conclusion: Alice as the perfect girl is a contradiction in itself. So, wtf needs Alice? What is it good for? Is the Alice Game nothing else but a very special form of a robot soccer match?
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Old 2006-01-17, 16:35   Link #162
Kuro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsura
They should have just let Suigintou died at the end of episode 1 and left it as that. Pandering to fans has never turned out well in the end. Just look at what happened to Evangelion and Gundam Shit...oops I mean Seed Destiny after the creators decided to give in to fan feedback. My only prediction for the series is that it will all be revealed in episode 12 with hints in episode 11. Just by going to the official website and reading the super vague summary for episode 11 I can guess something spoilerish must be up (death of another doll).
I must disagree. Unlike Evangelion and GSD, Rozen Maiden is actually a good anime with good direction and writing. Have some faith. Worst case scenario I think, is that the story will end with a "satisfying" ending (as in, a happy one), but still leave plenty of room for more.

Everybody through FMP: TSR was going to end on a bad note, what with everything happening (much more than RMT has going ATM), but it actually did end pretty well. I expect the same from Rozen Maiden.
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Old 2006-01-17, 16:56   Link #163
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro
I must disagree. Unlike Evangelion and GSD, Rozen Maiden is actually a good anime with good direction and writing. Have some faith. Worst case scenario I think, is that the story will end with a "satisfying" ending (as in, a happy one), but still leave plenty of room for more.

Everybody through FMP: TSR was going to end on a bad note, what with everything happening (much more than RMT has going ATM), but it actually did end pretty well. I expect the same from Rozen Maiden.
I have to agree with you about all of your good points about Rozen Maiden, even with the death of one of my favorite characters I was deeply sadden, but not disappointed in the anime at all (I will of course hold final judgement on the last episode ).
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Old 2006-01-17, 19:27   Link #164
kitsura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny
Quite a nice episode, but a little too rushed. Too many revelations crammed into one episode (one flaw of many animes in my opinion). The drama wasn't too bad in episode 10 though. It was rather sad that Hina Ichigo left like that with such a scene...

Oh another note, shock after shock...First, we find out that the bespectacled man is Laplace, and suddenly we find out Enju is Father...And why exactly is he sorta on Barashuisho's and Laplace's side? What kind of conspiracy fo they have? Three more episodes...So I would expect explanations to fly in fast and hard, though the next episode looks more like a Maiden battle. While it seems impossible for Enju to seem to be Father due to the possible time lapse, it could be possible that he might be the descendant of the first 'Father' instead. It's a wild guess, but hey, at least it's speculation.
There are actually only 2 more episodes left till the end of the season.
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Old 2006-01-17, 19:34   Link #165
kitsura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro
I must disagree. Unlike Evangelion and GSD, Rozen Maiden is actually a good anime with good direction and writing. Have some faith. Worst case scenario I think, is that the story will end with a "satisfying" ending (as in, a happy one), but still leave plenty of room for more.

Everybody through FMP: TSR was going to end on a bad note, what with everything happening (much more than RMT has going ATM), but it actually did end pretty well. I expect the same from Rozen Maiden.
I didn't say Rozen Maiden was bad overall. I think the inconsistency in storyline with the manga might be due to the fact that the manga writers (Peach-Pitt) didn't have a say in the story for the first season of the anime. At least for the second season they were consulted on the storyline. Other inconsistencies in character design and personalities still exist however but then they are minor issues.
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Old 2006-01-17, 20:21   Link #166
Maids! Maids! Maids!
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That episode packed a huge emotional wallop. A recap and the aftermath of the events of Episode 9 followed by more tragedy: it was tough to watch. Souseiseki had entered a moral gray area, and characters that do this have very short life spans in popular fiction. Her death wasn’t a huge surprise. Hina Ichigo was another story. Moving the chibi back with Tomoe was a great idea. I’m frequently moved more by characters’ reactions to events then the events themselves.

I don’t know if we saw a retcon or not (nor do I really care), but Suiseiseki has long been ambivalent about the Alice game. (I can’t recall if she was as ambivalent when she first appeared.) And there was just no way she was going to “junk” her sister. A previous victory left a very bad taste in Shinku’s mouth, and she appears to find the game morally reprehensible. I would expect Suiseiseki to be very angry next episode and far more willing to play the game than in the past. I’ve grown very, very fond of the character. Next episode may be really hard to take.

A lot of people get angry when an author kills off a well-developed character. For about ten or fifteen minutes, I just mourn them as I would a living person. I just get over it a lot quicker. And then I feel ridiculous.
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Old 2006-01-18, 02:34   Link #167
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsura
I didn't say Rozen Maiden was bad overall. I think the inconsistency in storyline with the manga might be due to the fact that the manga writers (Peach-Pitt) didn't have a say in the story for the first season of the anime. At least for the second season they were consulted on the storyline. Other inconsistencies in character design and personalities still exist however but then they are minor issues.
I thought that s1 had a good story line, but then again I'm not following the manga...
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Old 2006-01-20, 00:34   Link #168
Kuro
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Well, I saw episode 10. To say it was intense would be one of the biggest understatements in anime history.

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-01-20, 00:45   Link #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro
Well, I saw episode 10. To say it was intense would be one of the biggest understatements in anime history.

Spoiler:
You mean episode 11?
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Old 2006-01-20, 00:54   Link #170
Kuro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
You mean episode 11?
Oops. I meant 11.
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Old 2006-01-20, 01:09   Link #171
USCPharmacist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro
Oops. I meant 11.
ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG I was spoiled, bastard!!!!
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Old 2006-01-20, 01:18   Link #172
Thewanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USCPharmacist
ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG I was spoiled, bastard!!!!
Ooops

But I was too. Good thing I don't mind spoilers that much
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Old 2006-01-20, 06:50   Link #173
kitsura
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Just completed episode 11. And just as I predicted...
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-01-20, 07:27   Link #174
Flo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsura
Just completed episode 11. And just as I predicted...
Spoiler:
Hopefully we won't get "OMG Suiseiseki died! RM will suck without her!!!!" from the Sui fanbois
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Old 2006-01-21, 00:20   Link #175
Muir Woods
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Saw Chinese sub of episode 11.
Spoiler for Comments on 11:
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Old 2006-01-21, 01:26   Link #176
Flo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muir Woods
Saw Chinese sub of episode 11.
Spoiler for Comments on 11:
Spoiler for My comments and opinion:

Last edited by Flo; 2006-01-21 at 02:20.
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Old 2006-01-22, 03:25   Link #177
Forever
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Another sad episode. From ep 12 preview, it is easy to guess the final winner aka alice.

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-01-22, 04:11   Link #178
KiNA
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Spoiler:
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Old 2006-01-22, 04:41   Link #179
PuRpLe CryStaL
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Unhappy Kanaria

It's sad to see the fall of Suiseiseki and Kanaria. Kanaria has gained respect from the audience for her determination to protect Suiseiseki's Rosa Mysticas. Although Bara eventually got their Rosa Mystica in the expense of her right hand, I can't wait to see how Shinku would turn tables around when she releases her crimson of anger. To me, I find it difficult to predict the ending. I shared the same thoughts that Shinku will be the winner of Alice Game but she will not want to be Alice. I also want to know what does the OP screenshot about Shinku having tea with Jun (in the garden) implies. What will happen to Shinku if she do not want to take all the Rosa Mysticas from the defeated dolls? How will she go about resurrecting the other dolls? I hope the last episode will wrap things up nicely.
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Old 2006-01-22, 16:45   Link #180
BonBon
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I take it from the above posts that we don't need ep 11 spoiler tags at this point.

Very interesting developments. It seems likely to me at this moment, judging from Rozen's reactions to developments, that he designed every single Rozen Maiden in order to make Shinku Alice, and the whole 'game' was not a battle royale after all, but a form of mental conditioning to make her WANT to become Alice.

At this point, even if she still doesn't want to fight, there is no way that Suigintou and Barasuishou are going to agree to her pacifism, so she will HAVE to either keep fighting or just give up.
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