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Old 2006-01-02, 19:34   Link #41
chucky
Always impatient
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuixupu
I disagree wholeheartedly with the first one. Did the commenter make these statements much earlier in the series? One Piece has a very complex, epic backbone of a story. The thing is that it's being revealed slowly over time. And, while the story does tend to follow a repetitious format, it kind of HAS to, in order to keep a recognizable continuity, because the story is so long.
Well, maybe I would elaborate his idea more. In his words, that problem actually exists only after SH entered the grand line while he maintains OP before the grandline was a very good series. The commentator does have a lot of praise for OP before the grandline and to my knowledge he still sort of reads it (not on the weekly basis)

Before entering the grand line, you can clearly see, in his words, that luffy and co. are aiming for one goal: getting enuff crew members for the treasure called One Piece. Each addition of a new member, is then a clear sign that luffy and co. were moving one step closer to this goal. And in his opinion, One Piece is the backbone that thread the storyline from the beginning, and you could clearly see the tension and power in those episodes.

Nevertheless since the logan town and all the way to these days, have we been told anything about One Piece? No, sorry but we don't. In that guy's words, that's the problem -- the story of OP has become an multi-episodic adventure story, which has deviated from the "original design" at the outset. Why didn't Oda tell us what One Piece is? He asked. What Alabastan and Skytopia have anything to do with One Piece? He asked again, and we don't know the answer.

To put all these together, we can see a pretty clear and lucid argument (i don't quite agree with it and I will offer my opinion later) First, the premises of OP is to find the damn treasure, and based on this, luffy went out there and looked for his nakama. But then, after he got a bunch of crews and set off, the basic premises of One piece the treasure seemed to have been totally forgotten, and the narrative of the story has changed since the entrance into the grandline, from one closedly focused on one single goal to a pretty much mindless wandering repeating the same format.

Using (and expanding) the commentator's own analogy, imagine a boxer manga (like rocky) which supposedly tells the story of a young fighter wanna challenge the ultimate world champion. Does it make any sense to have forgotten the champion all together and linger on how the boxer fighting the others? No, a good storyteller should have the champion show up once a while, and remind us of the ultimate goal our hero is supposedly working on.

In light of this, OP has thrown out the very first premises out of the windows, and side stories, like the meaning of D., ancient text and ultimate weapons etc., have rather dominated the story. But do they have anything to do with the treasure of One Piece? Yet again, we don't know.

*********************************

You don't need to agree with what he said on this particular point, and I don't actually. He does have a point, but IMO his argument is closely related to how you view the treasure called One Piece.

IMO, I don't think that treasure really exists -- One Piece is an experience and the journey itself. If that's how you think about One Piece is, I don't think you need to buy this lack-of-backbone argument.

Still you need to answer one question: what's OP doing now? I really don't know where it is going. I will still watch it, but as I said in the previous post, there are a lot of problems with the story we have now, and Oda has to really do something to make it engaging again.

BTW there is one logical problem a lot of people here always repeat : a lot of people find it good != it is good, or it will be called "fallacy by popularity".
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Old 2006-01-02, 21:05   Link #42
Chuixupu
Shikachu
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky
Well, maybe I would elaborate his idea more. In his words, that problem actually exists only after SH entered the grand line while he maintains OP before the grandline was a very good series. The commentator does have a lot of praise for OP before the grandline and to my knowledge he still sort of reads it (not on the weekly basis)

Before entering the grand line, you can clearly see, in his words, that luffy and co. are aiming for one goal: getting enuff crew members for the treasure called One Piece. Each addition of a new member, is then a clear sign that luffy and co. were moving one step closer to this goal. And in his opinion, One Piece is the backbone that thread the storyline from the beginning, and you could clearly see the tension and power in those episodes.

Nevertheless since the logan town and all the way to these days, have we been told anything about One Piece? No, sorry but we don't. In that guy's words, that's the problem -- the story of OP has become an multi-episodic adventure story, which has deviated from the "original design" at the outset. Why didn't Oda tell us what One Piece is? He asked. What Alabastan and Skytopia have anything to do with One Piece? He asked again, and we don't know the answer.
One Piece until Arlong Park was boring and seemed pointless to me. Arlong Park was powerful because it was a very personal story mostly about Nami.

The problem with the commentor is that he doesn't see the big picture and he isn't very perceptive. He isn't seeing the forest for the trees, so to speak. In the beginning, we know Luffy wants to find One Piece and become the pirate king. But the way the story is being shaped, it's becoming clear that this is more than just a simple treasure we're talking about. One Piece appears to be wrapped up in a missing period of history, tied with with the Poneglyphs, one which was found in Alabasta, another in Skypiea.
You ask what Alabasta and Skypiea have to do with One Piece...well, obviously it has something to do with it, because Gol D. Roger went there also and left messages, so Luffy and Co. are on the right track, following Roger's footsteps. I guess maybe you want this to fit in the format of some 26 episode series where the there's only a small number of story arcs leading up to the conclusion. Well, it's not ending any time soon, so if they actually said what One Piece was right away, then what's the point of going on? A big part of the fun in the story is all the little clues being revealed as to what it is little by little. If you're not picking up on them, or think the story is straying from it's original purpose, than I'm afraid you must not be paying attention.

BTW, you got the names to just about every island wrong. It's Loguetown, Skypiea, and Alabasta. :P


Quote:
In light of this, OP has thrown out the very first premises out of the windows, and side stories, like the meaning of D., ancient text and ultimate weapons etc., have rather dominated the story. But do they have anything to do with the treasure of One Piece? Yet again, we don't know.
I don't see how you could answer anything but "yes" to that question.

Quote:
IMO, I don't think that treasure really exists -- One Piece is an experience and the journey itself. If that's how you think about One Piece is, I don't think you need to buy this lack-of-backbone argument.
It could be, but the information given seems to point otherwise. Roger said "I left it all in that place", I don't think you can leave a journey in a particular location.
The journey IS the most important part of the story, though.

Quote:
Still you need to answer one question: what's OP doing now? I really don't know where it is going. I will still watch it, but as I said in the previous post, there are a lot of problems with the story we have now, and Oda has to really do something to make it engaging again.
Damn, if it gets any more engaging I'll explode. What's it doing now? At the moment it's 1) about to establish the crew is the biggest outlaws in the world 2) solidifying their bonds as a crew 3) giving us Robin's backstory which has elements about the history of the world they live in, the government, some other clues about the name D, as well as getting a new crewmember who will probably build them a new ship and further the dream of finding One Piece.

But what else can I say, everyone has an opinion. I've seen criticism after criticism of LOTR as a book, but I still love it. It's an adventure story that is intended to entertain and bring out the child in us that loves adventure. One Piece does that for me, and that's all that matters. I wish you were enjoying it as much as I am.
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Old 2006-01-03, 00:36   Link #43
chucky
Always impatient
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Guess I need to be a bit more brutal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuixupu
The problem with the commentor is that he doesn't see the big picture and he isn't very perceptive. He isn't seeing the forest for the trees, so to speak. In the beginning, we know Luffy wants to find One Piece and become the pirate king. But the way the story is being shaped, it's becoming clear that this is more than just a simple treasure we're talking about. One Piece appears to be wrapped up in a missing period of history, tied with with the Poneglyphs, one which was found in Alabasta, another in Skypiea.
Yeah right, that's so deep -- like adding all sort of reading into the storyline of 5 minutes will suddenly give it an aura of Immaculate Conception. I don't agree with what the guy said, but he did ask some good question: and man, I have been here for more than 1 year and after reading the comments on this subject for ages, no one can still give me a concrete answer better than some (over?)generalized statement. And you know the reason why? Because we don't have enuff information how to even tackle the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuixupu
You ask what Alabasta and Skypiea have to do with One Piece...well, obviously it has something to do with it, because Gol D. Roger went there also and left messages, so Luffy and Co. are on the right track, following Roger's footsteps. I guess maybe you want this to fit in the format of some 26 episode series where the there's only a small number of story arcs leading up to the conclusion.
True, true.... and after 7 years of telling one single story the "core" of the story is not revealed yet. Guess Oda should apply for Guinness and go to Riley's Believe it or Not. But hey, life is a "process" itself isn't it? So the readers should stfu and wait til 20 years later until our hairline recedes to the "unknown territory" like rafteru the final destination of the Grand Line(sp?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuixupu
A big part of the fun in the story is all the little clues being revealed as to what it is little by little. If you're not picking up on them, or think the story is straying from it's original purpose, than I'm afraid you must not be paying attention.
Or I'm afraid you must have deluded yourself to the point that you can tell yourself horseshit can be as tasty as smoked salmon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuixupu
I don't see how you could answer anything but "yes" to that question.
And the "yes" here virtually says nothing. Like what? And how? My suggestion is throwing in some Freud and Marx will help. Don't forget to quote some Communist Manifesto! Like "the wankers like Usopp of the world, Unite!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuixupu
But what else can I say, everyone has an opinion. I've seen criticism after criticism of LOTR as a book, but I still love it. It's an adventure story that is intended to entertain and bring out the child in us that loves adventure. One Piece does that for me, and that's all that matters. I wish you were enjoying it as much as I am.
I luv this kind of defence when people cant really talk back. So everything will become "personal opinions" when the criticism slaps on the right spot, but one way or the other, the very same people will try to hardsell some alternate "points of view".
Geez.
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Old 2006-01-03, 01:48   Link #44
Tommy
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I think you guys should create a new topic for your discussion because it looks like its going to be a really lengthy one .
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Old 2006-01-03, 01:58   Link #45
DrunkenRyder
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Wow one piece is really long, and doesnt look like its going end.

One Piece - 250+ And no Signs of Ending
Detective Conan - 400+
Pokemon - 700+ Come on...It will never end cause they can make up stuff out of the blue

Now back to the Water 7 Arc. Ive heard rumors, and I stopped at episode 249, But will Arlong return?
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Old 2006-01-03, 02:47   Link #46
Chuixupu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky
Guess I need to be a bit more brutal.
In other words, "I'll insult you into agreeing with me! Har har!" How mature.

Quote:
Yeah right, that's so deep -- like adding all sort of reading into the storyline of 5 minutes will suddenly give it an aura of Immaculate Conception. I don't agree with what the guy said, but he did ask some good question: and man, I have been here for more than 1 year and after reading the comments on this subject for ages, no one can still give me a concrete answer better than some (over?)generalized statement. And you know the reason why? Because we don't have enuff information how to even tackle the question.
I've seen some pretty elaborate and interesting theories on the subject that seem to make sense. The most recent couple of chapters in the manga are sort of following that line of thought. But this is an anime only thread, not a manga thread. And I personally am just enjoying the story as it is enough to where I don't feel like it's important to really feel close to all the answers yet. Theorizing is fun, but not my forte. I prefer to just wait and see what happens, and thus far I'm satisfied and intrigued by the information that has been given.

Quote:
True, true.... and after 7 years of telling one single story the "core" of the story is not revealed yet. Guess Oda should apply for Guinness and go to Riley's Believe it or Not. But hey, life is a "process" itself isn't it? So the readers should stfu and wait til 20 years later until our hairline recedes to the "unknown territory" like rafteru the final destination of the Grand Line(sp?).
Getting a little worked up are we? Did I ever say "fans shouldn't wonder what One Piece is and shut up"? I simply feel that the information that is given now is completely pertinent to the core of the story and intriguing enough to make me even more curious, so I'm content with it.

Quote:
Or I'm afraid you must have deluded yourself to the point that you can tell yourself horseshit can be as tasty as smoked salmon.
If you haven't tried it, you never know, do you?
And I'm afraid you're taking this conversation way too personally and maybe you shouldn't read my posts if they're making you so upset that you feel the need to flame me. If this is how you attempt to get people to respect your opinion, you fail miserably.

Quote:
And the "yes" here virtually says nothing. Like what? And how? My suggestion is throwing in some Freud and Marx will help. Don't forget to quote some Communist Manifesto! Like "the wankers like Usopp of the world, Unite!"
Spoiler:


I don't know how concrete you want the clues to be right now. It seems like One Piece is at about the halfway point right now. What are you expecting me to say? I don't agree with Mr. Commentator on his first two points. He's entitled to his criticism. So are you. But then you open yourself up to criticism of your criticims. And criticisms of the criticisms of the criticisms (as you're doing now). I don't see why you are getting so pissed off about it. Welcome to internet discussion forums.

Quote:
I luv this kind of defence when people cant really talk back. So everything will become "personal opinions" when the criticism slaps on the right spot, but one way or the other, the very same people will try to hardsell some alternate "points of view".
Geez.
It wasn't a defense, it was ending on a more pleasant note. But I'll try to not be nice if you don't like it.
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Old 2006-01-03, 03:08   Link #47
wingdarkness
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
Chuixupu, please step aside, hold those thoughts, and allow me to bash this fellow for you...

Thank you...




Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky
Guess I need to be a bit more brutal.

Ok first-off, Chuixupu didn't at all insult you or try to make you out to be a fool even if the major contention of your weak-a$$ debate is that we should listen to the "WTF-who cares" thoughts of some phantom commentator whose opinion you've already downplayed, and whose opinion holds no more weight than any of us here...Certainley not more than wingdarkness....



Quote:
Yeah right, that's so deep -- like adding all sort of reading into the storyline of 5 minutes will suddenly give it an aura of Immaculate Conception. I don't agree with what the guy said, but he did ask some good question: and man, I have been here for more than 1 year and after reading the comments on this subject for ages, no one can still give me a concrete answer better than some (over?)generalized statement. And you know the reason why? Because we don't have enuff information how to even tackle the question.
Will somebody give this guy the Nobel Prize for "WTFness"...."You can't answer this question because there is no "concrete answer"...duh...

How much shonen anime have you actually watched?? You don't need to be blown away by plot-points that seemed to be indiscriminatley planted in a storyline, you just need to understand or accept them...Many shonens with the episode count of OP has this problem aswell...You start off making a show and having a definite plan of how you want to attack it...The popularity of the show gets out of control and goes higher than you ever imagined...so as a director/creator you begin to lengthen the series by creating other arcs that more or less stand-alone, but to keep the original intentions of your goal alive you have no choice but to include plot-points that advance that overall goal...Now in some series it's done better than others, but it is indeed a necessary evil of a shonen anime that has a ridiculous amount of episodes and if done well isn't really a problem...



I assume Skypiea is the biggest culprit of this design and I'll say again Skypiea is probably the most mentally-challenging arc in the series IMO...Besides the obvious great adventure of traveling to a cloud Island, there was the mystery of how part of Jaya Island became part of Skypiea...The history of Skypiea and the past of the Indians that protected the Gold Bell...The mystery of why the ancient language that is written on every island including on old Jaya Island...Gol D. visiting there and ofcourse the Polygolph Weapon, which was a foreshadowing of what we are seeing now...(Not to mention so much more that was visually and adventurously good, even little stuff like finding out why the "Bug-bears" were so huge to people who sailed under Skypiea was nice)...The comedy (Yes One Piece is comedy too don't forget) was probably the best during this arc...

Now ofcourse I understand what you and your "commentator-sama" are saying, but the real question is, did I enjoy it?? And the answer is easily yes...If everything you suggested happened and it didn't end up being enjoyable and very dramatic in a tangent way, you would have a leg to stand on, but alas all you have is your opinion, which is as worthless or as good as anyone elses....

Quote:
True, true.... and after 7 years of telling one single story the "core" of the story is not revealed yet. Guess Oda should apply for Guinness and go to Riley's Believe it or Not. But hey, life is a "process" itself isn't it? So the readers should stfu and wait til 20 years later until our hairline recedes to the "unknown territory" like rafteru the final destination of the Grand Line(sp?).
Better to let our hair recede listening to your blather...And ignoring all the great-moments and superior fighting we've seen thru-out the years...One Piece has more to offer than it even knows...Different people enjoy different things..and while I've been critical of some things I see as procrastinating, I say that from position of my own love and selfeshness because when One Piece is doing the things I want it to do it it is beyond incredible and gives me a feeling that can't compare with other anime...


Quote:
Or I'm afraid you must have deluded yourself to the point that you can tell yourself horseshit can be as tasty as smoked salmon.
I'd say attacking Chuixupu when she in no way tried to heavily insult you is the bigger horse$hit...THe only smoked salmon is the one your sharing with your invisible friend the mystery-commentator...You were so moved by his obvious points that you thought you'd come in here and try to convert us...Sorry I don't wanna join your two-man cult...

Again you did make some points worthy of discussion, but to lash out at someone whose as loyal and knowlegable about One Piece as "Chu-chan" just to look in the mirror and think you've accomplished something was too much for me to stand on the sidelines and let you continue...

Quote:
And the "yes" here virtually says nothing. Like what? And how? My suggestion is throwing in some Freud and Marx will help. Don't forget to quote some Communist Manifesto! Like "the wankers like Usopp of the world, Unite!"

I luv this kind of defence when people cant really talk back. So everything will become "personal opinions" when the criticism slaps on the right spot, but one way or the other, the very same people will try to hardsell some alternate "points of view".
Geez.
I also love this kind of comeback, when someone refuses to sip the Kool-aid you've been slurping down via your "sempai"...You feel the need to lash out in the prototypical alpha-male context which involves trying to belittle and toss ape-$hit when people actually object or circumvent the points you thought were so strong just 3 posts ago...You have a point, Ok...so does 4.6 billion human beings...

Your criticisms of One Piece in limited areas are valid, but your smugness is not at all...As if everyone here was dumb or oblivious to the points you read about and thought would blow us all away...Furthermore to try and insult an badger someone who hasn't even attacked you in any personal context shows the true-goal of what you were trying to do in the first place...and that's shove your "epiphany" down our throats...Unfortuanatley "devils-fruit" tastes a bit better...
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Old 2006-01-03, 11:13   Link #48
chucky
Always impatient
 
 
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To Chuixupu: hey, poking fun at nonsense is never personal. If you manage to do it to me, feel free and I can take it To be really honest, Almost all of the people here -- and definitely you ARE one of them -- never really got my nerve big time in this OP thread, except a couple. But still, a lot of what many diehard supporters said about OP, a series I like and have rewatched for god sake I can't even remember how many times, just doesnt make any sense at all, even though I do find the people here usually are way less irritating than say Naruto and Bleach fans. If NoSanninwa didn't overprotect the Bleach thread, woo, I would turn that place into a living hell for those idiots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
Chuixupu, please step aside, hold those thoughts, and allow me to bash this fellow for you...

Thank you...
While I was expecting some higher level tantrum and try to learn something from it. I am yet again disappointed. Let me teach you how to flame someone.
Quote:
Ok first-off, Chuixupu didn't at all insult you or try to make you out to be a fool even if the major contention of your weak-a$$ debate is that we should listen to the "WTF-who cares" thoughts of some phantom commentator whose opinion you've already downplayed, and whose opinion holds no more weight than any of us here...Certainley not more than wingdarkness....
Yeah right, you can't answer the other's questions and then call it a weak-ass debate, and even timid enough to use dollar sign to avoid the "indecent" word of ass. Who has been downplayed here, really?
Quote:
How much shonen anime have you actually watched?? You don't need to be blown away by plot-points that seemed to be indiscriminatley planted in a storyline, you just need to understand or accept them...Many shonens with the episode count of OP has this problem aswell...You start off making a show and having a definite plan of how you want to attack it...The popularity of the show gets out of control and goes higher than you ever imagined...so as a director/creator you begin to lengthen the series by creating other arcs that more or less stand-alone, but to keep the original intentions of your goal alive you have no choice but to include plot-points that advance that overall goal...Now in some series it's done better than others, but it is indeed a necessary evil of a shonen anime that has a ridiculous amount of episodes and if done well isn't really a problem...
So here we can see the logic of this ruggrat -- critism is always a conspiracy, and I believe the same with Roeper and Ebert, who are as a matter of facts planning to destroy the whole world everytime they give thumbs down!
Also I don't think anyone put a gun at Oda's head to tell him how he should write a story, right? Maybe actually wingdarkness is Da One(TM) wearing his Italic high-heeled boots with a leather whip, standing next to Oda, whipping Oda like a dutiful S&M Queen (I assume you are playing the girl's role here, sorry if it is not the case irl) everytime he shows signs of deviation. That's why OP is over 400 chapters long without revealing anything important about the treasure and etc. after all these 8 years.
Quote:
Now ofcourse I understand what you and your "commentator-sama" are saying, but the real question is, did I enjoy it?? And the answer is easily yes...If everything you suggested happened and it didn't end up being enjoyable and very dramatic in a tangent way, you would have a leg to stand on, but alas all you have is your opinion, which is as worthless or as good as anyone elses....
Goddamnit, who cares if you enjoy it or not? A real film critic doesn't tailor his/her comment because "people enjoy the movie". Feeling hurt huh? Or pique overflown? And again the "opinion logic shield": I have an opinion and you have yours, so everything is relative and that's why mine can't be subjected to critical evaluation. Then why the fuck you wanna tell me what you think in the first place, in my opinion?
Quote:
I'd say attacking Chuixupu when she in no way tried to heavily insult you is the bigger horse$hit...THe only smoked salmon is the one your sharing with your invisible friend the mystery-commentator...You were so moved by his obvious points that you thought you'd come in here and try to convert us...Sorry I don't wanna join your two-man cult...
When you lose an argument, you call it a cult. I guess next time, you call me "anti-american buttrapping Roger Ebert wannabe with a tiny penis". That will definitely strike a cord.
Quote:
Again you did make some points worthy of discussion, but to lash out at someone whose as loyal and knowlegable about One Piece as "Chu-chan" just to look in the mirror and think you've accomplished something was too much for me to stand on the sidelines and let you continue...
Woo, who is more "cultic" here?
Quote:
Your criticisms of One Piece in limited areas are valid, but your smugness is not at all...As if everyone here was dumb or oblivious to the points you read about and thought would blow us all away...Furthermore to try and insult an badger someone who hasn't even attacked you in any personal context shows the true-goal of what you were trying to do in the first place...and that's shove your "epiphany" down our throats...Unfortuanatley "devils-fruit" tastes a bit better...
And your smugness is boring, uncreative and couldn't even crack me up for once. And yes, I pointed at you with a gun and forced you to kneel in front of me, believe in every single word I said and worship me -- but hey, that's just my opinion!

Last edited by chucky; 2006-01-03 at 11:24.
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Old 2006-01-03, 16:33   Link #49
wingdarkness
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Edit: Passive agressive flame deleted by moderator

Peace...

Now back to the Water 7 discussion...
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Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2006-01-03 at 21:49. Reason: Pointless flame deleted. Don't do this again.
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Old 2006-01-03, 16:47   Link #50
Chuixupu
Shikachu
 
 
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Quote:
Now back to the Water 7 discussion...
Hm, yeah, considering that chucky is now just spouting asinine nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic at all, I agree.

But no new episode until Sunday, and no new chapters in the manga for 2 weeks. Darn holiays.
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Old 2006-01-03, 19:33   Link #51
monir
cho~ kakkoii
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Aycaramba!! I would like to make it absolutely clear that in no way I am trying to dictate how Oda should tell his story. I'm simply not qualified. What I've done so far is to observe and react.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuixupu
I think you are mistaken in assuming that the entire focus of the arc is Robin, or that an arc even *should* have one focus. I never thought of the arc that way. Volume 35 was called "Captain". If Oda wanted the focus to all be on Robin, he could have done that, but obviously he has reasons for everything that has happened. I've been astounded at how much forethought he puts into the story. There have been a lot of plot elements that I thought were insignificant, only to have them resurface later as being a key element. I just can't understand the line of thought that thinks "well, this is what *I* think the story should focus on, and if it doesn't, then it's wrong". I think Oda knows what he's doing. I have yet to be disappointed (except for when Pell survived).
Robin does get her due later on, though.
You have misunderstood and misinterpreted what I’ve said in my previous couple of posts. I’ve no doubt Oda knows what he is doing. He wouldn’t have been one of the most popular mangaka in Japan if he didn’t know what he was doing. He uses a single layout for almost every one of his arc where the protagonist (Luffy) will get involve with the problems of one single character (the central focus/subject of that arc), will see things from the perspective of that character with amazing clarity before anyone else, then will fight for that character with the accompanying main theme nakama, and then the arc will conclude with one final touching gesture that will strengthen the bond between the protagonist and the character in question for that respective arc. Yet Oda keeps finding variations with his one-and-the-same layout to make each of this arc interesting to his viewers/readers. The aforementioned "forethought" he puts into his story is to setup those variations in different arc.

Water 7 arc is following the same layout with Robin’s being the main focus of this arc, not the entire focus of the arc. The side story such as the Tom worker’s has already been tied to Robin. We entered into this arc after Aokiji tried to kill Robin. Usopp unknowingly is in the same train to Enies Lobby with Robin, meaning we can expect he will play a key role as Robin’s story unfolds. Everything points toward Robin’s being the central focus of this arc, so all the other plot elements will revolve around Robin in this arc just like it has been through out the series for every other arc and each of it’s central focus/subject.

It’s not what *I* think the story should focus on, rather, the story has intended to focus on Robin from the beginning of this arc. What I have tried to say in my previous couple of posts that this time around in the arc up to 253, the plot seems to be draggy and delayed to warrant a lack of focus which is why I think length of an arc matters.

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It's *a* jewel. But now we're back in the realm of opinion. I know a lot of people that insist Alabasta is THEE best arc of the whole series, but it's not even my second favorite.
I liked that arc and all of the side stories revolving around Vivi. The arc also introduced a lot of villains that are funny to cool to extremely cold hearted and calculating. It’s Vivi’s character that I couldn’t get into. The stupid Pell factor in the end of that arc after that awesome self-sacrificing act didn’t help either.

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One Piece is a continuing graphic novel. It's not a collection of short stories. Each chapter continues right into the next without a final conclusion, and will continue to do so until it finally reaches the end. The story arcs don't always focus on one character, just some of them happen to.
Some of those characters focused on each of their respective arcs were Chopper, Nami, Sanji, Usopp, Vivi, the man with the goat, the annoying little girl who can communicate with animal, and etc. I agree that there is no hint of finality to the series itself in any of those arcs, but it's also true that each of this arc was given a certain closure (Zoro’s probably being the only exception.) The only continuity to the series is Luffy himself. And when his back story is fully explored, then it is most likely the series is nearing its end. Alright, graphic novel it is.

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Originally Posted by Tommy
I think the Water 7 arc has been outstanding personally. Like you've already said it started out strong with the Luffy/Usopp/going merry part, then set up the fight with CP9 and now We're getting backstory on Franky which I've enjoyed thus far (seen up to 251) because I think Franky's a badass character and It really seems like he's being setup to be the next crew member. Especially since he's wanted by the government now. Sure I haven't seen a fight in a few episodes but so what. I know it's coming and hopefully we'll get to see Robin Flashbacks.
I assure you I don't watch this series for the fight. Usopp's fighting being the only exception, I can't stand the fights in OP. They are poorly animated, there are too much interruption, and the fights themselves feel long and dragged out. I am fond of this series because of its style of storytelling, the variety of characters, and the rich texture those characters bring out about a story. It's a good arc and has the potential too be a really good one overall; but up until now to the currently aired episode this arc has already seen its peak in the Luffy/Usopp confrontation. The backstory on Tom's worker was fantastic as well. Not much to say about the things in between and the couple of episodes after.

P.S. Happy New Year everyone!
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Old 2006-01-03, 21:30   Link #52
chucky
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ok, I will follow Chuixupu's advice and back to Water 7 arc.

I don't think the arc is bad at all at the outset, but as Monir pointed out, the conflict between Usopp and Luffy, which was nicely setup, has now sunk to the background. I would say it would be better to see one whole arc is dedicated to focus exclusively on it, and I think that will be much better.
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Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2006-01-03 at 21:46. Reason: Pointless flame deleted. Don't do this again.
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Old 2006-01-03, 21:45   Link #53
NoSanninWa
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Originally Posted by chucky
ok, I will follow Chuixupu's advice and back to Water 7 arc.
Good idea. The pacing of One Piece and its conclusion is an interesting topic, but this is not the place to continue discussing it. I hope that if this is to be continued, you'll continue the discussion elsewhere. My finger will be hovering over the delete button in case anyone can't take this hint.
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Old 2006-01-04, 02:07   Link #54
Chuixupu
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Originally Posted by monir

You have misunderstood and misinterpreted what I’ve said in my previous couple of posts.

....It’s not what *I* think the story should focus on, rather, the story has intended to focus on Robin from the beginning of this arc. What I have tried to say in my previous couple of posts that this time around in the arc up to 253, the plot seems to be draggy and delayed to warrant a lack of focus which is why I think length of an arc matters.
The way I see it....If this were a one-shot movie, there would be more urgency in condensing the focus of the plot. But since this is a long, epic, continuing series in which Robin herself is not in fact the main focus of the story, other elements of the plot need to be explored to remind the audience of everything else going on with the main plot and the other characters. (Having so many main characters is extremely difficult) Like finding a shipwright, getting a new ship, and the larger issues of things involving the world government, and the poneglyphs, things which Robin's history and future are closely wound up in. Nothing is being half-assed; Oda's being very thorough and thoughtful about every aspect, and I think (though I could be wrong), that in the end we'll see how even the UsoppxLuffy fight directly has an impact on everything from Robin, finding a new ship, the shipwright, and so forth (some of these things are already apparent). I think that if Oda had delayed some of the other plot points and made them into smaller, more focused arcs, the story wouldn't be nearly as interesting. I think the length is just sort of a necessary evil to fit in everything that is necessary to bring all these plot elements together effectively.

And as I said before, I think a big reason why the story seems to be dragging so much has a lot to do with Toei's purposeful dragging of the plot to keep the anime behind the manga. Things seem to go by a lot more quickly reading the manga.

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[SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]Some of those characters focused on each of their respective arcs were Chopper, Nami, Sanji, Usopp, Vivi, the man with the goat, the annoying little girl who can communicate with animal, and etc.
Those last two were anime-only fillers, I don't really count them.

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I assure you I don't watch this series for the fight. Usopp's fighting being the only exception, I can't stand the fights in OP. They are poorly animated, there are too much interruption, and the fights themselves feel long and dragged out. I am fond of this series because of its style of storytelling, the variety of characters, and the rich texture those characters bring out about a story. It's a good arc and has the potential too be a really good one overall; but up until now to the currently aired episode this arc has already seen its peak in the Luffy/Usopp confrontation. The backstory on Tom's worker was fantastic as well. Not much to say about the things in between and the couple of episodes after.
Well, I agree with you. Unfortunately you're going to have to sit through a lot of fighting in the near future, as well as another flashback, albeit a very important one. XD
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Old 2006-01-04, 16:05   Link #55
monir
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Originally Posted by Chuixupu

Well, I agree with you. Unfortunately you're going to have to sit through a lot of fighting in the near future, as well as another flashback, albeit a very important one. XD
Flashback's are things to relish in OP since that's how the back stories for characters in OP are explored. I'm definitely looking forward to the flashbacks.
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Old 2006-01-04, 20:09   Link #56
lemondude
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what happened to the new episodes man, I mean it hasen't air a new episode in like 3 weeks!!!!
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Old 2006-01-04, 20:36   Link #57
Chuixupu
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Holiday break.

I'm not sure when it will be back...it may not be until the following Sunday.
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Old 2006-01-04, 22:58   Link #58
wingdarkness
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Hehe using my friends internet...just couldn't stay away...

Sorry NSW...as as usual I have a hard time containing myself...

Chuixupu, maybe I should have left you to handle your own battle, but I felt I needed to jump in, hope I didn't make it worse for you...Wish I coulda saw the flame comeback though, I'm a fan of good ones^^

Anyways..everything else aside, because it seems every counterpoint to chucky's intial argument has been countered, I'd have to disagree with monir (yeah I know, we hardley ever see eye to eye)...One Piece's action is so well thought out, so creative, so stylistic at times...It's unlike anything else in any and has a look of it's own that can't be dublicated...Luffy (considering he's merely a rubberman) comes up with so many different techniques and suprises as the action intesifies...From using water bubbles as "Mizu-Luffy" xD vs. Crocodile, to letting the air out of his body to fight Eneru's trident and neutralize his mind-prediction skills...then to later use his arms and punch them against the Golden ship to create a "Mega-gatling-gun" were all great impromtu action...

Even earlier battles with Kuro and Don Krieg were really good if not superficially entertaining...I don't know..can't recall alot of poor animation especially not in Arlong or Arabasta...Maybe a little in Skypiea, but I just don't see it...The action in OP (when there is an abundance of it) is soooo goood....I don't watch OP just because of the action, because the comedy and the drama is so strong at times...but without the wonderful action sequences One Piece wouldn't be One Piece at all, sorry...
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Old 2006-01-04, 23:30   Link #59
Chuixupu
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness
Chuixupu, maybe I should have left you to handle your own battle, but I felt I needed to jump in, hope I didn't make it worse for you...
Nah I appreciate the thought, it's just not worth arguing with some people.

Quote:
Anyways..everything else aside, because it seems every counterpoint to chucky's intial argument has been countered, I'd have to disagree with monir (yeah I know, we hardley ever see eye to eye)...One Piece's action is so well thought out, so creative, so stylistic at times...It's unlike anything else in any and has a look of it's own that can't be dublicated...Luffy (considering he's merely a rubberman) comes up with so many different techniques and suprises as the action intesifies...From using water bubbles as "Mizu-Luffy" xD vs. Crocodile, to letting the air out of his body to fight Eneru's trident and neutralize his mind-prediction skills...then to later use his arms and punch them against the Golden ship to create a "Mega-gatling-gun" were all great impromtu action...
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought Monir was just referring to the way the battles are animated, which generally I'm a little disappointed with, even though they are very creative and interesting by design.

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I don't know..can't recall alot of poor animation especially not in Arlong or Arabasta...
Episode 121...one of the worst animated episodes ever. :P
It goes up and down. I think the biggest improvements have been after Skypiea.
I sometimes wish they could go back and animate Skypiea over again. The animation is very poor at times and really doesn't do the original manga designs much justice. It's such a rich, imaginative world and they made it so bland.
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Old 2006-01-05, 05:24   Link #60
wingdarkness
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I assure you I don't watch this series for the fight...I can't stand the fights in OP.
Well that's what he said...

There have been episodes here and there that have been below par in animation, but I haven't recognized a trend...atleast not enuff where it's obtusely obvious to me...
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