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Old 2006-09-15, 11:34   Link #1021
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rooboy666
I'm going to not rise to the "pretty good" bait (I consider it "pretty average")
I just have much lower expectations for for ero-conversion anime since they often seem to think they can hire hack screenplay writers "since most of it is written".
So far, only Lamune has really gone into my "special part" of my library from that type of anime.

At first I thought that last eyecatch had nuked the show but after a few months, I think of it as a fairly ignorable glitch of time budget crisis ... something too much of anime suffers from.
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Old 2006-09-15, 11:52   Link #1022
rooboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
I just have much lower expectations for for ero-conversion anime since they often seem to think they can hire hack screenplay writers "since most of it is written".
No my expectations are pretty low - Canvas2 filled them admirably. I don't think the show is bad or anything, I've actually recommended it to people, I just don't consider it to be particularly outstanding. Some people love it because it fills all of the little boxes they consider important, other people don't because it doesn't.

Though my favorite part, at the time and even now, was that we weren't given very much transparency into anyone's thoughts - so it makes interpretations of their motivations very interesting. In general the way a person interprets Canvas2 character motives tells us much more about the interpreter than about the Canvas2 characters - and it's not often you find it done as well as it was done in this show. Kind of like, I guess, how whether someone considers Suzumiya Haruhi a god, an evolved lifeform, or an anomaly tells me much more about that person than the actual show. We're interpreting those answers (the show doesn't provide them), and, as with all interpretation, it's influenced heavily by background and past life-experiences. Actually as more and more people come on and post whatever they think about the ending, my opinion of the show has risen slightly. I do think it has admirably filled the (often forgotten) actual goal of this type of show: I've thought occasionally about purchasing the game so I can see what's going on with my two favorite characters (who also coincidentally seem to get the least screentime): Hagino and the director.

Back to the topic at hand - Rei, I actually think more people were happy with the Elise ending than with the possibility of the Kiri ending (at least, Elise seemed to have a much larger fanbase at the time), but I think people were just expecting it to start coming up a little earlier. This is particularly horrid from a pacing standpoint because plenty of episodes in the show serve no real purpose. It's okay to have episodes with no plot purpose (every tv show, anime or not, has them - they provide a lot of the better character development), but it's not okay to do it and then rush the ending. Except for one or two exceptions, I don't think most people feel like the show was ruined by what happened at the eyecatch. Most people are just like Vexx and if they didn't like it (for whatever reason), they just ignore it.
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Old 2006-09-15, 12:07   Link #1023
ShadowrazoR
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Could someone please refresh my memory about the last eyecatch? From the screencaps at Random Curiousity, I see only Kiri in her white dress, and then Elis in a red dress. Not exactly something to get pissed about, in my opinion.

*puts up flame shield

Or were you guys talking about that last bit after the credits?
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Old 2006-09-15, 12:23   Link #1024
rooboy
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We're referring to the last bit after the credits.

It's not a traditional eyecatch - but that's the effect I think it had on a lot of people.

EDIT: Though I do have to admit that I liked the fact there was an implied naughty bit to the series as well - I can't count how many series seem to have divorced the notion that sex actually happens in the game from the anime version completely. I always say, "Dance with the one that brought you."
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Old 2006-09-15, 12:55   Link #1025
ShadowrazoR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rooboy666
We're referring to the last bit after the credits.

It's not a traditional eyecatch - but that's the effect I think it had on a lot of people.
Yes, it certainly did catch people's eyes. Luckily I always watch past the credits for final episodes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rooboy666
EDIT: Though I do have to admit that I liked the fact there was an implied naughty bit to the series as well - I can't count how many series seem to have divorced the notion that sex actually happens in the game from the anime version completely. I always say, "Dance with the one that brought you."
Which brings me to my question: how do most games that were eroge ported over to PS2 and made all-ages handle the H-scenes removal? Do they turn it into implied sex or completely replace it with another (significant) event?
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Old 2006-09-15, 13:06   Link #1026
rooboy
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I believe they turn it into implied sex - which is usually better anyway. I'm not necessarily for showing sex, it just seems odd to me that in a genre that comes out of games comprised of "adult situations", the animes usually completely skip the notion that people might be having "adult relations".
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Old 2006-09-15, 13:13   Link #1027
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I realy expected him to end up with Kiri and near the end they wanted to spent the day together and he got her present for csimass and what hapened he just ended up with his cousin and they where living like a sister and brother and on the end he slept with her that just was too crazy what hapened with his feelings to Kiri and what he is thinking to end up with his cousin Too weird ending
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Old 2006-09-15, 16:17   Link #1028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rooboy666
Though my favorite part, at the time and even now, was that we weren't given very much transparency into anyone's thoughts - so it makes interpretations of their motivations very interesting. In general the way a person interprets Canvas2 character motives tells us much more about the interpreter than about the Canvas2 characters - and it's not often you find it done as well as it was done in this show.
Yeah, that's a very good point indeed. Take this for what it's worth, but I find most English-speaking anime fans (especially those on these boards) have a very linear and literal (physical?) way of interpreting. I guess you could call it "blunt". They interpret bishoujo/eroge-based anime the same way they'd interpret a shounen action show: focused on action, choices, and plot progression. Their minds summarize the shows as "action bullets", even as they watch. Whereas I would argue that these sorts of shows are much more about emotions, symbolism and a certain "sentimentality" that is anything but a "straight line". There's a good reason why many people consider these shows more "shoujo" than "shounen" (despite the fanservice): so much of the plot is inferred through emotion rather than conveyed through action. I certainly found that to be the case with Canvas 2, along with a number of other shows in the genre. Don't get me wrong, though: it isn't a "flaw" or a "fault" that people interpret things in the linear/literal way, but I think it's one of the main reasons why the genre won't really take off in North America for a while. As a general rule, guys around here just don't "think emotionally", and it's not something you can just explain through logic. Maybe that makes sense, maybe that doesn't... but I guess I'll just say that I thought the ending (including after the credits) made sense on an emotional level.
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Old 2006-09-15, 17:16   Link #1029
Vexx
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Whereas in my case, the ending made emotional sense but the aftercredit image didn't because nothing had transpired to reach that scene. I just finished the Mahoraba manga series... and there's a time jump epilog at the end to show how everyone ended up -- and all the framework had been laid in the story so that the reader understood why the characters were where they were.

For me that didn't happen (though I've been told a few times now that the manga does a much better job of providing hints that Hiroki does indeed have those *kind* of feelings about Elise).

So I suppose by the categories relentless defines, I sit on the shoujo side of the fence but I keep glancing over at the shounen side. I prefer the shoujo "un-straight line" but OTOH ... the characters have to follow some minor behavioral patterns and choice making routines that one sees in real people.

The problem with that model is that often I find the shounen side makes no sense at all (bang, splat, my honor compels me to stupid choices, etc).
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Old 2006-09-15, 17:31   Link #1030
rooboy
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Of course this is neither - it's seinen, but I guess I'll leave my genre nazi hat off today.

EDIT: And I guess I must be the real extreme exception - plots only marginally interest me, it's themes that make me interested in a show.

EDIT 2: Well, or comedy - comedy goes a long way if I find it amusing.
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Old 2006-09-15, 18:31   Link #1031
Vexx
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Heh... I purposely ignore the so-called "categories" because in essence all they mean is that a particular property was marketed in certain channels.
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Old 2006-09-15, 19:01   Link #1032
rooboy
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Well, I think it's helpful as a way of distinguishing between different examples of the same genre. For example, "romance" and "adventure" aren't very descriptive - but a shonen romance vs a shoujo romance vs a seinen romance vs a josei romance tells me quite a bit about each show (and how they're different).
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Old 2006-09-15, 23:42   Link #1033
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I guess that was a failure to explain on my part, but best not to push the point for fear of opening a can of worms on these boards. Let's just say that there are ways of relating to the "logic" of the post-credit scene that aren't "cause-and-effect" (as in something beyond the "straight line" of "he bought a gift for Kiri, and then slept with Elis without ever so much as blushing before - WTF?!"). But, you take this to the other extreme, and you have "any ending's okay regardless of content as long as my girl wins the prize", which is never the point I try to make, so discussing it is too dangerous around here. But, as I was saying, that's why it's all about interpretation and the way you look at things. Guess that's all I should say.
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Old 2006-09-16, 00:10   Link #1034
mangatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
I guess that was a failure to explain on my part, but best not to push the point for fear of opening a can of worms on these boards. Let's just say that there are ways of relating to the "logic" of the post-credit scene that aren't "cause-and-effect" (as in something beyond the "straight line" of "he bought a gift for Kiri, and then slept with Elis without ever so much as blushing before - WTF?!"). But, you take this to the other extreme, and you have "any ending's okay regardless of content as long as my girl wins the prize", which is never the point I try to make, so discussing it is too dangerous around here. But, as I was saying, that's why it's all about interpretation and the way you look at things. Guess that's all I should say.

You know dude, you bring life into this forum I mean, you type alot lol I remember the Kotori discussion days back in the DCSS thread

Why not just say "The ending was good enough for me". There, that was short
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Old 2006-09-16, 01:13   Link #1035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangatron
You know dude, you bring life into this forum I mean, you type alot lol I remember the Kotori discussion days back in the DCSS thread

Why not just say "The ending was good enough for me". There, that was short
Hahaha... well, you know, I've never been a fan of the whole "I'm allowed to have whatever opinion I want, state it however I want, and you can't criticize it because it's an opinion!" thing. Opinions and perceptions deserve to be challenged - it's only by bouncing ideas off of other people (and having ideas bounce back to you) that you can arrive at truly profound conclusions. That's what I think discussion boards should be about: you know, discussion. Further, if you believe something, or have an opinion about something, and can't explain it to someone else, then it means you haven't really reflected on it or thought it through. So, to me, "the ending was good enough for me" is useless; it's like saying "I like the colour blue" -- so what? Is that going to lead to any serious thought or reflection? Will it challenge people's thinking at all? Or will half just say "good on you for agreeing with me!" and the other half "you suck for not agreeing with me!"?

As general rule, I've found that people here (and maybe everywhere on the Net) like to react, not to reflect. You pointed out the DCSS thread in particular, and that would be a prime example (a lot of it before the great forum wipe). I don't care if people "agree", but I feel it's a shame they won't take the time to seriously think and reflect -- yes, even about anime. And maybe some people "get that" -- most don't, though, and that's just something I've (mostly) accepted.

Anyway, not that it was truly off-topic (since it was tied into what I was saying earlier - reflect on it. ), but back to Canvas 2.
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Old 2006-09-16, 01:42   Link #1036
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lol I was joking when I said "Why not just say "The ending was good enough for me"". You know I'm the only guy on this forum that uses 500 :HEH: emotes a day

Did you know a person's thoughts become an opinion only when those thoughts are said aloud to others. Me, I have a blog because I have opinions that others read. During Canvas 2's air dates I was practically the only one who was not irritated by Kiri's progress and outcome. That became my opinion, and only then did I voice out my opinion that I saw how different we all think.

I'll say I was the only dedicated supporter of Aisha throughout DCSS's run, and it became my opinion, and it became a discussion.

I've said it many times before. I miss the Kotori discussions back when DCSS was airing. Why? It was one of those very few times that I got to see a large amount of opinions all in one place battling it out
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Old 2006-09-16, 16:41   Link #1037
Riker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
For me that didn't happen (though I've been told a few times now that the manga does a much better job of providing hints that Hiroki does indeed have those *kind* of feelings about Elise).
I've just finished reading vol.3 and I must say I thoroughly enjoyed the manga adaptation. Of course there's some difference here and there, e.g. Yanagi was portrayed as more likable in the manga. Then again, the manga version of the Hiroki, Yanagi and Kiri reunion lacks the impact and delicious drama dished out in the anime.

Overall, the manga was a more light-hearted version of the story with plenty of comedic moments sprinkled throughout. The story has a more consistant flow than the anime (the anime would have been fine if not for the abrupt last episode). If you're looking for new mangas to purchase do consider giving this adaptation a try. The main story is only 3 volumes long (vol.4 is a collection of side stories like the beach and sleep over as well as an epilogue).

Oh, one minor gripe I have with the manga was the general lack of Hagino, Tomoko and Saya. Especially Tomoko. At least Hagino got her own chapter (her date with Hiroki) and Saya also made numourous appearances. Tomoko was reduced to just a few frames.

But the mangaka promised to fix that in vol.4, so I shall be waiting eagerly. :x


+1 pic

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Old 2006-09-24, 15:01   Link #1038
Searcher
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To mine great wonder i could dowload the canvas game
Now i wonder if some group has made a translating patch
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Old 2006-09-24, 16:34   Link #1039
DragoonKain3
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Always assume game patches does not exist. So far, there's only 3 full games that have full translation available (maybe a fourth one), and Canvas 2 isn't even on anyone's 'ongoing' or 'upcoming' list.
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Old 2006-09-25, 03:16   Link #1040
Narumi
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Maybe just not yet... >_>
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