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Old 2007-12-07, 13:17   Link #1261
NaweG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, there are indeed threads for Teacher and Twins, though unsurprisingly they're not all that active these days (especially Twins, which hasn't seen a post in 2+ years... )
Appreciate the links. I've gone searching for those threads a couple times and never found them. Of course now that I have...
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Old 2007-12-08, 00:12   Link #1262
dojikyo
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Vexx makes a good point that it must mean something that this show can still elicit such passions long after it is over.
Well as far eroge to anime, I'd say it is probably the best one. Granted, I'm not too familiar with source material. But it had only two throw away episodes and developed the characters without taking away from the main plot. And had a far better shock ending, of which I'll spare everyone the whole there was some foreshadowing, than the one that spawned the nice boat meme.
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Old 2007-12-08, 00:39   Link #1263
taelrak
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Originally Posted by dojikyo View Post
Well as far eroge to anime, I'd say it is probably the best one. Granted, I'm not too familiar with source material. But it had only two throw away episodes and developed the characters without taking away from the main plot. And had a far better shock ending, of which I'll spare everyone the whole there was some foreshadowing, than the one that spawned the nice boat meme.
Eh? How did a "nice boat" reference make its way into even a Canvas 2 thread?

I'm not so sure about a Canvas 3...

The whole universe of Canvas really doesn't seem any different from any other high school/college world, and since any sequel will most likely have completely new characters anyway, all it'd really be doing is building on the name. I guess it might be nice seeing cameos of some of the chars when they're older though.

Not that that's bad, but if that's the case, might as well call it something else.
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Old 2007-12-08, 01:28   Link #1264
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Originally Posted by taelrak View Post
The whole universe of Canvas really doesn't seem any different from any other high school/college world, and since any sequel will most likely have completely new characters anyway, all it'd really be doing is building on the name. I guess it might be nice seeing cameos of some of the chars when they're older though.

Not that that's bad, but if that's the case, might as well call it something else.
Well, of course, that's exactly what Canvas 2 is related to the original Canvas; it has completely new characters, builds on the name, and has a few cameos of some of the first game's characters when they're older. So they probably could continue ad nauseum, if they wanted to. The only trick is finding new angles to keep things interesting when sticking to the same setting, I guess (but considering how long F&C has kept the Pia Carrot franchise alive, they seem to know a thing or two about that ).
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Old 2007-12-08, 03:17   Link #1265
Vexx
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Frankly.... I'd be fine with a comedy centered on the further adventures of Hagino and Tomoko --- but then that'd be a different genre I guess.
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Old 2007-12-10, 09:09   Link #1266
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Talking

Wow, it was a pleasant surprise to see so many new posts in this thread (I'm tracking this on a weekly basis). About the whole Hiroki, Elis and Kiri triangle, I was favouring Kiri all the way and Elis really came as a sudden surprise to me. Upon rewatching however, and taking in the information "analytically" and not personally, I finally realise how intricate, if "grossly obtuse at times", they had been dropping hints about the intended conclusion by the creators.

Canvas 2 is by no means perfect, and their execution could have been much better. As it is, I understand and appreciate the level of metaphorical elements they tried to blend into the show, but the level of immersion and acceptance to go along with it was shaky. To put it one way, I had to set aside my emotions and coldly view the show in a calculative manner before I could embrace its tale.

Elis = Painter, Kiri = Teacher.

And given the title of the show, fine, it would have made a whole lot of sense to make Elis "Da Winnar". I just wish they had been a bit more open about Hiroki's romantic interest in Elis. Trying to isolate scenes where Hiroki expressed romantic interest in Elis before episode 20 is like trying to squeeze blood from stone. One of the "greater failings" of Canvas 2.

At this point, some of you may be under the impression that I am very derisive of Canvas 2. This is actually not the case. I actually get a kick of understanding metaphorical elements, and Canvas 2 has it in spades; and not just for the love triangle either, but for all the other side-stories as well. Not to mention the absurd level of foreshadowing which highlights just how much effort the producers placed into this anime.

One example being that Hiroki met Tomoko YEARS before he joined the school. This was revealed visually in a flashback when Hiroki recounted how he got Elis interested in art. Seeing Tomoko in that flashback was a surprise moment until you recount past conversations by both Tomoko and Hiroki on where and when they spent their childhood and which area their hospitals were in, and then it all clicked together brilliantly.

To me, Canvas 2 is by far, my favourite anime based on an eroge-game, and in my opinion, one of the best executed so far. Surpassing even luminaries such Kanon(2006). Canvas 2 is one of those rare adaptations where there is actual focus on character development for the male protagonist. One of the biggest shortcomings in most other adaptations.

After all... notice how much people talk about Hiroki himself, and not just the girls in his life. Hiroki's decision was about Hiroki's choice, and not because of some tragedy befalling upon the chosen girl. I mean come on... the guy's in the damn OP. Try naming a dozen other adaptations that have done the same.
~~~~ ~~~~

Of course... no post on Canvas 2 will ever be complete unless there is mention of Tomoko! The best character in the show! Oh Tomoko~ how sweet thy pout.

Spoiler for Final Episode:

Cheers.
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Old 2007-12-12, 01:45   Link #1267
taelrak
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Hrm, for Hiroki, I think Elis summed it up pretty well...is painting really only that important to him that he would give it up at something like that? Get over it. Competition exists in the professional world.

The whole love triangle thing, whether taken independently or viewed as a metaphor for dream, is nice and all, but really. It's one thing to be crushed by the weight of reality in making an artistic dream come true--this is hard and talent doesn't always get you to the top. It's another to simply give up on that dream barely having gotten started on it and then fleeing in denial for what..2-4 years? If that was the case, he deserved to not ever achieve his dream.

I'm glad he broke it off with Kiri - even if it weren't for Elis. I doubt Kiri would've been happy in the long run marrying a guy who can't even take command of his own life and is living a lie all the time. She deserves better (so does Elis for that matter) .

I've also got to seriously question the hiring standards of an "elite art school" that hires a teacher on the basis of only his works throughout high school and who admits he will never paint again. I mean, I can accept that he probably was a genius at painting, probably even better than Yanagi if the implication of the anime is true (but this isn't proven), but still...he's flat out said he'll never paint again.

But I'll agree with the post above that his character development, albeit a bit bumpy, was a good thing, if slightly abrupt. The romance part wasn't a problem IMO - I actually saw a lot of hints that he would get back together with Elis towards the latter half of the anime. However, although it's always been obvious he would start to paint again simply because the plot mandated it right from the beginning, the anime gave no viable hints developing that aspect of his character right up until the end. THAT was the abruptness that I couldn't agree with.

Instead, they only developed half of the metaphor (the romance side) and used it as a stimulus to suddenly jolt him on the other side too (the artist/dream). By trying to tie everything (his dream, painting, his love life) together, the anime tended to marginalize particular aspects while simply trying to point us to the metaphorical link between each aspect to make up for it, and I don't feel it was wholly successful.

Last edited by taelrak; 2007-12-12 at 02:18.
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Old 2007-12-12, 06:17   Link #1268
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taelrak View Post
I've also got to seriously question the hiring standards of an "elite art school" that hires a teacher on the basis of only his works throughout high school and who admits he will never paint again. I mean, I can accept that he probably was a genius at painting, probably even better than Yanagi if the implication of the anime is true (but this isn't proven), but still...he's flat out said he'll never paint again.
Provided my memory serves me right, he acted as an adviser for the art class, not an actual teacher (though the positions seem very similar). I think it was later in the anime when he was offered the position of an actual teacher (i assume the school was happy with his performance shown as adviser).
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Old 2007-12-12, 07:02   Link #1269
innominate
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Canvas 2 is one of those rare adaptations where there is actual focus on character development for the male protagonist. One of the biggest shortcomings in most other adaptations.
Uhh, my input on character development on a note, (from my limited knowledge of eroge adaptations), ...

for most eroges, the male protagonist is you. Which is why there normally isn't much character development for the male protagonist; if the producers delve too deep into the personality of the protagonist the audience/viewer would feel distanced from the protagonist in the 'first person perspective' >> 'third person perspective' kind of way. In an eroge, the player would wish for 'girls around I', rather than 'girls around him' therefore a third person perspective sucks. =o

The thing about Canvas2 as an adaptation is that you aren't really viewing things from Hiroki's perspective, or so I felt. Which is kind of refreshing =). Watch the filmography as the producers actually try* to distance you from Hiroki even at the beginning (+1point).

Which is why I think Canvas2 scores for realism, hooray!, (imo, albeit my lack of real life experience) but for that it misses out on the melodrama, suppressing the catharsis effects, I suppose. =D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Not to mention the absurd level of foreshadowing which highlights just how much effort the producers placed into this anime.
Spoiler for evil producers:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Spoiler for Final Episode:
Spoiler for Final Episode:
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Old 2008-02-16, 22:37   Link #1270
mangalowres
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Is this thread dead?
I hope not.

For me, I dont know if it is a sad end or a good end.
Spoiler for Final Episode:


Its still a good end, but not perfect or they way I would like to see it.
It gives me not the satisfaction I need.... *snief*
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Old 2008-02-17, 01:09   Link #1271
DanielSong39
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Elis DID decide to lead her own life but it was Hiroki who decided to chase her.

As for Kiri, she had no desire to prolong what was increasingly becoming a one-sided relationship. At Hiroki's end, his situation is not unlike Yoshiyuki from D.C. II, in that he likes his childhood friend and is willing to go out with her, but isn't sure whether it's love.

When push came to shove Hiroki decided that it wasn't.
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Old 2008-02-17, 10:08   Link #1272
mangalowres
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I liked Kiri to much, so it feels like a not right end.

Elis and Hiroki where living as brother and sister so that pretty weird for me(I've got a younger sister).

But thanks for the answer... I think I wont watch this anime again, the end ruined it for me ... I'm still the happily ever after type and Kiris roll in that wasn't as happy as i wished for her.
Next time I'll watch the end first and decide if the anime is worth watching it

Hmmm and DC II , I think it's somewhere here on one of my harddrives, didn#t watched it till now, but if that end feels like this end(weird) I dont think I can watch it.

Edit:
Aishiteru ze Baby endig was one of the best, yeah differnet shows and so, but they had some equal parts but in the end there was hope for everyone.

Last edited by mangalowres; 2008-02-17 at 15:51.
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Old 2008-02-18, 01:39   Link #1273
DanielSong39
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If you ask me, there was something kooky about the whole Elis-Hiroki dynamic from the very beginning...

Their relationship was FAR from a typical brother-sister or parent-child relationship, even by anime standards. The fact that Hiroki lets Elis sleep in his bed all the time was the first big clue. And the two are basically playing house throughout the series. When you also throw in their attempt at parenting (Episode 12), it should've been enough to send warning signals.

Alas, I didn't expect thing to be decided so quickly or decisively, but I suppose geniuses operate at a different level. In any case they both got the life they wanted, and settled things once and for all.
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Old 2008-02-18, 01:45   Link #1274
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The two may seem close, but most likely Hiroki thought of Elis as a kid sister. I know when I was a bit younger, my sisters would like to sleep with me just because like all girls, they are a bit of a fraidy cat. As you can see that was the beginning, and you noticed that Elis is as kiddish as ever.
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Old 2008-02-18, 05:17   Link #1275
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Aoie_Emesai View Post
The two may seem close, but most likely Hiroki thought of Elis as a kid sister. I know when I was a bit younger, my sisters would like to sleep with me just because like all girls, they are a bit of a fraidy cat. As you can see that was the beginning, and you noticed that Elis is as kiddish as ever.
Well, yeah; as long as she still acted like a kid who needed him to protect her, he could only see her in that light. Whatever feelings he might have had for her were trumped because "I'm her guardian, and I have to look after her". It wasn't until Elis started gaining some independance and not needing him so much that he realized that she wasn't a kid anymore, but a fully-grown woman. And it was only then that he started understanding that she was the most important woman in his life, and that what he had perceived before as Elis's childishness was actually the only way she knew to get through to him (since, for the aforementioned reason, he never gave her a serious look). Basically, "you don't know what you've got, 'till it's (nearly) gone;" the whole show was about Hiroki finding himself, finally getting on the same wavelength as Elis, and not fooling himself into being someone/something he's not.
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Old 2008-02-18, 10:16   Link #1276
mangalowres
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Good post.
I'm still not satisfied with the end but talking about it helps me a lot to get rid of it in my head
Maybe I can watch Canvas ~Motif of Sepia~ now, by the way is it releated to Canvas 2 ~Niji-iro no Sketch~ ?
I watched Canvas 2 ~Niji-iro no Sketch~ first and after the end I could not start with the OVA because of this... for me sad end.

DAMN YOU WRITERS... why dont write only perfect ends *snief* for me
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Old 2008-02-18, 13:56   Link #1277
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Originally Posted by mangalowres View Post
Maybe I can watch Canvas ~Motif of Sepia~ now, by the way is it releated to Canvas 2 ~Niji-iro no Sketch~ ?
It's set in the same school a number of years earlier with a different cast of characters. But some of the characters from Canvas 1 did have cameo roles in Canvas 2, and some of the characters in Canvas 2 are related to those in Canvas 1. So, it's connected, but it's more like "in the same universe as". (The other thing, of course, is that the original Canvas OVA is adults-only, so... )
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Old 2008-02-18, 14:38   Link #1278
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Hrr Hrr
Ok I'll watch it after Da Capo... even after a few years I didn't watched Da Capo once.

I hope Canvas will give me a better end feeling... I'm tooooo soft.

Thx relentlessflame.
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Old 2008-03-21, 12:03   Link #1279
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Just rewatched this series and the
Spoiler for funny thing:
triggers uncontrollable fits of laughter every time
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Old 2008-06-11, 09:26   Link #1280
xris
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While this series has not yet been licensed we have received a C&D from Kadokawa Pictures USA, we therefore won't be listing fansubs of this series here on AnimeSuki anymore.

Please note that Kadokawa are acting on the behalf of the Japanese IP owners, Kadokawa Pictures USA themselves do not license such series but act as a master licensor, a middle-man who sells on the license to (typically) American anime companies.
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