AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Shana

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2006-01-31, 19:12   Link #381
Bahamut
...lost in nothingness...
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
Hrm, I didnt hear the word for orphan, perhaps the person who made that transcript
may have paraphrased it in.

"orphan" would lead me to think she had lost or been abandoned by her parents
for some time, and then had no relatives to live with.

If they had just be killed at the time, then it would be too early to call her
an orphan.
...Srin Tuar...how is it too early to call her an orphan? ...she has no parents...we can ignore relatives since in a way its irrelevant...shes basically by herself...if its too early call her an orphan then where would you categorize shana right after her parents died? ...survivor? ...unlucky kid?

...and considering that shana never had a name to begin with...one would assume that either she lost her memories...or her parents died at the moment of her birth...one way or another shes basically an orphan...there is no real need to go into this that deeply...
Bahamut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-01-31, 21:11   Link #382
Srin Tuar
無謀
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut
...Srin Tuar...how is it too early to call her an orphan? ...she has no parents...we can ignore relatives since in a way its irrelevant...shes basically by herself...if its too early call her an orphan then where would you categorize shana right after her parents died? ...survivor? ...unlucky kid?

...and considering that shana never had a name to begin with...one would assume that either she lost her memories...or her parents died at the moment of her birth...one way or another shes basically an orphan...there is no real need to go into this that deeply...
Just trying to infer the backstory, if you dont mind too much.

I had been thinking she was dead through the whole arc, due to the
roundabout way they have of describing everything. In fact, the whole
scene still doesnt quite add up...
Srin Tuar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-01-31, 23:02   Link #383
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
"orphan" would lead me to think she had lost or been abandoned by her parents
for some time, and then had no relatives to live with.

If they had just be killed at the time, then it would be too early to call her
an orphan.
That's not how the word "orphan" works in English.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Main Entry: 1or·phan
Pronunciation: 'or-f&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin orphanus, from Greek orphanos; akin to Old High German erbi inheritance, Latin orbus orphaned
1 : a child deprived by death of one or usually both parents
2 : a young animal that has lost its mother
3 : one deprived of some protection or advantage <orphans of the storm>
- orphan adjective
- or·phan·hood /-"hud/ noun
Regardless of how or when her parents died, she's still an orphan by definition 1. Even if she was adopted immediately, she's still an orphan because her parents are dead.

And, out of curiosity, what exactly doesn't add up about this situation?
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-01-31, 23:32   Link #384
Srin Tuar
無謀
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut89
That's not how the word "orphan" works in English.
Im rather familiar with the english word, thank you very much. (and I stand
by my assertion about its nuances) A person can very much be an orphan but
have both biological parents be alive somewhere. Conversly, someone who
grew up adopted by loving step parents could not be called an orphan, especially
if they didnt know they werent their real parents.

Dont let the dictionary trick you.

Quote:
Regardless of how or when her parents died, she's still an orphan by definition 1. Even if she was adopted immediately, she's still an orphan because her parents are dead.

And, out of curiosity, what exactly doesn't add up about this situation?
They never said the word "orphan" that I heard. They never said that her parents
died. They just said there was an unfortunate incident and she had nowhere else
to go... Maybe her parents dropped her off a bridge as an infant or something...
Maybe she got lost in the woods and eaten by wolves or something.

The other thing is that a mere human being could fight as well as she did- i wouldnt
have expected her to be anywhere near the level of tomogara in a mortal human
body... but her statements in later episodes seem to agree with the idea that she
chose to become a flame haze while alive, so she must have not been a ghost...
i think.

The whole arc has the power levels muddled it seems to me... as mentioned
before.

perhaps i should just focus on the pretty pictures and not think about it so much
Srin Tuar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 00:23   Link #385
relentlessflame
Administrator
*AnimeSuki Site Staff
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
The other thing is that a mere human being could fight as well as she did- i wouldnt have expected her to be anywhere near the level of tomogara in a mortal human body... but her statements in later episodes seem to agree with the idea that she chose to become a flame haze while alive, so she must have not been a ghost... i think.

The whole arc has the power levels muddled it seems to me... as mentioned before.

perhaps i should just focus on the pretty pictures and not think about it so much
Well, this isn't like an RPG where you start out weak and have to "level up" as you keep facing stronger and stronger bad guys... at least, not once you become a Flame Haze. Her strength reflects mostly her determination and mental focus, it seems to me. When she has doubts, questions or worries, she fights poorly, but when she has resolve, she can dish out nearly unlimited punishment. All that's really to say that she already has enough power; when she found Yuuji, though, what she was looking for was purpose/meaning. Yuuji never made her stronger, and it certainly wasn't experienced gained in fights; he just provides her with something to believe in - something worth fighting for - and that's all it takes to unlock her potential. Anyway, that's just my perception. To me, the fights are all symbolic anyway - it's her destiny to win, and the other person's destiny to lose. That's not to say that you have to turn off your sense of logic, but more like you have to accept that these fights are about a great deal more than strength and physical power. All IMO, of course.

P.S. Please... stop pressing Enter at the end of every line! Automatic word-wrap is a good thing!
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 03:31   Link #386
Morisato
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
So what have they been calling her the whole 14 years they've been raising her? Hey "you"?
Morisato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 04:06   Link #387
NoSanninWa
Weapon of Mass Discussion
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morisato
So what have they been calling her the whole 14 years they've been raising her? Hey "you"?
The amazing thing about Japanese is that they can form a sentence without needing to state the subject. It is entirely possible to refer to someone as nothing at all. When you see a weird series of sentences (translated into English) where something or someone is tortuously (and indirectly) referred to as "that thing," the original Japanese is using a generic pronoun that could be a person, place, thing or idea. Amazing, eh?

I will admit that it might make matters difficult when you need to get her attention, "Hey! Look! Listen!"
__________________

There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.
NoSanninWa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 08:59   Link #388
Bahamut
...lost in nothingness...
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
...lol...thats how i address people from time to time cause i end up not remembering their names...man japanese wouldve been the perfect language for me if thats the case...

...concerning shana's state of existence...if Tenmoku Ikko was able to become a mistes willingly then shana should be able to do the same as a flame haze...perhaps she lost her life as the result...or power of existence? ...wait...dont think so... (just trying to use the terms)

...i can agree with relentlessflame...shana's power is after all, alastor, and since hes like a god his powers should like unlimted or atleast lvl 99 closing in on lvl 100 lol...shes probably just not capable to control all of it...and alastor has this sacrifice skill that needs the flame haze dead but alastor wont die...like relentlessflame said it could be shana's doubts that makes them weaker instead...if anything yuji should be the one leveling up...come on yuji, learn firaga, omnislash, chidori or bankai...anything!...all you have right now is shield lol...

...there is no reason to turn off your brain...as a matter a fact you need your brain for this anime or else you wouldnt understand wtf is going on...
Bahamut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 09:53   Link #389
Srin Tuar
無謀
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
The amazing thing about Japanese is that they can form a sentence without needing to state the subject. It is entirely possible to refer to someone as nothing at all. When you see a weird series of sentences (translated into English) where something or someone is tortuously (and indirectly) referred to as "that thing," the original Japanese is using a generic pronoun that could be a person, place, thing or idea. Amazing, eh?

I will admit that it might make matters difficult when you need to get her attention, "Hey! Look! Listen!"
Im somewhat incredulous that she could have possibly gone without some sort of makeshift name. Unless they treated her very brusquely- refering to her as "candidate", "human", or something like that... Im more apt to believe that her "not having a name" is either simply a plot device, or else an attitude she gained upon becoming a flame haze.
Srin Tuar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 10:26   Link #390
Owaranai Destiny
Nick of Time~
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Guze no Sekai
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Owaranai Destiny Send a message via MSN to Owaranai Destiny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
Im somewhat incredulous that she could have possibly gone without some sort of makeshift name. Unless they treated her very brusquely- refering to her as "candidate", "human", or something like that... Im more apt to believe that her "not having a name" is either simply a plot device, or else an attitude she gained upon becoming a flame haze.
And what plot device would that be? I agree that it seemed a little...strange that they didn't have a name for her, but perhaps a makeshift one? Although there was no indication in the episode then...
__________________
Owaranai Destiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 10:29   Link #391
zalas
tsubasa o sagashite
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Send a message via ICQ to zalas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plant42
Man !! Please tell me how can you got the extras DVD ?

I order DVD vol. 1 from Amazon at 18 Jan , and they delivered it in 25 Jan.
Damnnn I got the Firstpress edition and all items but no extra DVD , that make me veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy upset .
I have no idea; I guess luck of the draw? My order was also delayed a few days before shipping out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
Im somewhat incredulous that she could have possibly gone without some sort of makeshift name. Unless they treated her very brusquely- refering to her as "candidate", "human", or something like that... Im more apt to believe that her "not having a name" is either simply a plot device, or else an attitude she gained upon becoming a flame haze.
Well, I think there were only 5 beings living on that floating castle: Shiro, Shana, Alastor, Wilhelmina and Tiamat. Maybe that made it a lot less necessary to actually have names? I am really bad with remembering people's names, but I've managed to do fine in small group situations because I can just catch their eye and start a conversation. If Wilhelmina has to talk to Alastor about Shana, she could simply use 'she' and I'm pretty sure they would both be able to tell who they were talking about from context.
zalas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 10:31   Link #392
zalas
tsubasa o sagashite
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Send a message via ICQ to zalas
Oops, please delete this message.
zalas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 10:34   Link #393
Bahamut
...lost in nothingness...
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
...its very possible that she lived her life without having a name or that she does have one but we have yet to be informed...it could be some plot related thing...i dont see why not...the show is not over yet let alone the novel...
...alastor, wilhelmina and shiro (if he can talk in bones mode), if needed, couldve addressed her as a just a human or just a flame haze in training...but i wouldnt really see it being rude or anything...since they seem to be very neutral people (as much as one can be)
...either way now she's shana...and would you really trade the name shana for something else? ...i know i wouldnt...shana-tan pwns all...
...and the good thing atleast is that in the flash back eps...atleast you can tell that the staff was focus on not addressing her as anything...if they called her shana or janice or bob in those eps that wouldve been really wierd lol...

Last edited by Bahamut; 2006-02-01 at 10:48.
Bahamut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 10:47   Link #394
Owaranai Destiny
Nick of Time~
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Guze no Sekai
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Owaranai Destiny Send a message via MSN to Owaranai Destiny
Actually, I would go with zalas' statement. Indeed, there were only like 5 'entities' living on Tendou-kyu, and two females especially. Considering that Alastor and Shiro (Merihim) never really interacted, conversations held were mostly with Wilhelmina, and 'she' would be appropriate enough since Shana's the only other female around that warrants more talk.
__________________
Owaranai Destiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 10:54   Link #395
Bahamut
...lost in nothingness...
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
...however that doesnt really support shana not having a name at that time...if she did have a name, Whilelmina couldve did the samething by saying 'she'...
Bahamut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 11:42   Link #396
zalas
tsubasa o sagashite
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Send a message via ICQ to zalas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut
...however that doesnt really support shana not having a name at that time...if she did have a name, Whilelmina couldve did the samething by saying 'she'...
I'm not saying that she must have not had a name, but that they could've gone by without her having a name. So, true, she could also say 'she' even when Shana had a name, but that's irrelevant.
zalas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 11:59   Link #397
eggplant
Eggplant
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Just saw episode 17 and here are my first impressions:

Spoiler for episode 17:


A must see episode by all means.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yuri de yuri de yuriyuri ne!--Tsunomoto Rein

eggplant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 12:01   Link #398
Srin Tuar
無謀
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny
And what plot device would that be? I agree that it seemed a little...strange that they didn't have a name for her, but perhaps a makeshift one? Although there was no indication in the episode then...

The plot device would be: allowing Yuuji to "name" her.


I just dont think "ano ko" "aitsu" and "omae" would get you through ~14 odd years of growing up. Well, maybe not in real life, but this is fiction, and the storyline says thats what happened so...
Srin Tuar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 15:17   Link #399
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
The plot device would be: allowing Yuuji to "name" her.


I just dont think "ano ko" "aitsu" and "omae" would get you through ~14 odd years of growing up. Well, maybe not in real life, but this is fiction, and the storyline says thats what happened so...
I never address anyone by name. Ever. 19 years. Works for me.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-01, 16:26   Link #400
Guido
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 33
Second Opening finally!

Omniscient has opened up the synopsis for episode 17 along with a generous amount of pics for the second opening.

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2006...n-no-shana-17/

*Kazumi is given both screentime and a slot in the new opening.
Guido is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, adventure, comedy, drama, j.c. staff, romance, shounen, supernatural, tsundere

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.