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Old 2006-01-13, 04:22   Link #181
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Although relentlessflame has some good points, i do have to agree with AvatarSt.
Kotori's role could have been easy replaced by mako, moe or even tamaki. Especially tamaki would have been the perfect one to play kotori's role.
She is his fiance (in the manga atleast) and now she has discovered that the person she loves, is in love with someone else (his sister!). She had way more to lose than kotori.
But i understand why the producers went with kotori, besides her character, she is the most popular girl in da capo. More fans to attract.

When i decide to watch an anime, it must have a character(s) development or else i am going to get bored. Or atleast have a very good story.

That probally why i don't like dcss, kotori never chanced. Even when she knew she didn't have any chance, she remained the same. So did every other girl (except aisia).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvatarST
Not unless her husband is scum. She just has to be lucky in who she falls in love with.
With her character, kotori will have to be damn lucky! Or think/fight about her own happiness for ones.

I don't understand some people reactions that if dcss was another haremserie where jun'ichi had to chose another girl.
It wouldn't be right because of the ending jun'ichi/nemu had in dc.
Why not, love isn't eternal. Not in real life so why not in anime.
So they had a "touching" ending, that was 2 years ago. A lot of things can happen/chance for a teenager in just 2 years.

Been looking at the site of DCII, 2 more girls to fill in. But looking at the info, it is probally going to be a race between nanaka and yume
(and someone else but i cann't make out who).
Isn't the main guy the brother of yume and otome? If so i can already predict now that he is their halfbrother. Cann't Circus come up with some new idea's?
It sounds like DC I to me, kotori/nanaka (been adopted, i readsome where) and nemu/yume (again his sister, i think)

Since i don't speak japanese i cann't read the story behind every girl (if that is posted already), but i have a feeling that kotori has been phased out.
The producers probally don't know what to do with her, having her granddaughter fighting for the guy sounds to much like DC I.
Especially if he is yume's brother.
So they have axed her, maybe we will get info like that she left the island, or something else.
Just so that they wouldn't have to come up with a story for her.
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Old 2006-01-13, 06:40   Link #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
But i understand why the producers went with kotori, besides her character, she is the most popular girl in da capo. More fans to attract.
Like I said, the fact that Kotori's the easiest to pity is probably part of the reason why she was the one - and why I'm not sure if they'd actually give her a happy past by the time DCII comes out, since this also raises her popularity and makes the fans love her more. Either that or someone at Circus hates her, else I don't get why else she'd get continuously shafted o.O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
I don't understand some people reactions that if dcss was another haremserie where jun'ichi had to chose another girl.
It wouldn't be right because of the ending jun'ichi/nemu had in dc.
Why not, love isn't eternal. Not in real life so why not in anime.
I actually don't disagree with this, but the thing was that they'd have had to be aiming for that since the very first (or at least drop some hints) episode, and they weren't. So it'd have had to be a completely different story. Personally I'd have liked it, but then again, there are a lot of possibilities that I'd have liked. It wouldn't be better or worse, it'd just be different. It just happens that we didn't like the path they did take...

As for Nanaka, nothing is known about her yet. Yume and certainly Otome don't seem to be similar in personality to Nemu, though...from their description anyway.
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Old 2006-01-14, 03:15   Link #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
I don't understand some people reactions that if dcss was another haremserie where jun'ichi had to chose another girl.
It wouldn't be right because of the ending jun'ichi/nemu had in dc.
Why not, love isn't eternal. Not in real life so why not in anime.
So they had a "touching" ending, that was 2 years ago. A lot of things can happen/chance for a teenager in just 2 years.
Yet another "firmly disagree" here, but to an even stronger degree. (Ignore if you don't want to read some.)

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Old 2006-01-14, 16:15   Link #184
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All I ask for now, is a series dedicated to Kotori and her own love story. DCSS didn't cut it for me at all.
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Old 2006-01-14, 18:01   Link #185
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Lots of us wanted to see more about Kotori, but I think that it's pretty clear DCSS is the end of the DC universe.

Look forward to DCII and Kotori's descendant and maybe we'll learn more about her past and what happened with her, though she probably got shafted again anyway, either Nanaka or Kotori, somehow. >.> Anyway, being pessimistic is probably a good idea, since anything better is a nice surprise...

Anyway, relentlessflame, I was wondering if you felt it was rude that I didn't continue our argument after this post? I just thought we were making the same points over and over and there wasn't much of a point since our views were clearly different, so we weren't going to agree (or get anything positive out of the debate for that matter). No hard feelings in the least obviously but I was wondering if it was rude of me to end it there and ask you to just agree to disagree.
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Old 2006-01-14, 18:35   Link #186
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From relentlessflame
"you know what, you're not the one for me"
For them to move on in Second Season would have rendered all of Season one's ending pointless, null and void.
To do otherwise would have been admitting a mistake and doing the first season an incredible injustice
I ignored your post mostly (to much to read as usuall). All i asked why people would find it strange. I didn't refer it to DCSS in any particular.

And why could one (or both of them) say, look your not the one for me. Is that so strange in your world.
It happens all around the world.

So what your saying is that if 2 people has some incredible "stuff" happen to them, they will stay in love forever.

Season one's ending would not be pointless, if they break up. It would just be a life experience.
And what's wrong in admitting a mistake!
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Old 2006-01-14, 23:44   Link #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvatarST
Anyway, relentlessflame, I was wondering if you felt it was rude that I didn't continue our argument after this post? I just thought we were making the same points over and over and there wasn't much of a point since our views were clearly different, so we weren't going to agree (or get anything positive out of the debate for that matter). No hard feelings in the least obviously but I was wondering if it was rude of me to end it there and ask you to just agree to disagree.
No, I wouldn't say that I found it rude, but honestly I found it a bit disappointing (well, sort of) that you'd feel that way. I'm not here to "argue", so "agreeing" or "disagreeing" isn't the point in my mind. If we disagree, that's fine. I'm here to learn from other people; to exchange points of view and learn from that. I believe that, even if you believe or feel differently about an issue, you can learn from the other point of view, or at least come to appreciate that there are other ways of looking at things. So, I am genuinely interested in your point of view and in understanding it, but if you don't want to talk about it that's fine too. I mean, why talk about a show you didn't enjoy? Of course I understand that. So, please don't worry; I wasn't offended or anything. But if you ever do want to discuss it some more, I'm always interested in learning more about why you felt the way you did.


And well, Searcher, of course I would assume you were referring to this show - look at where you're posting. Obviously it's not strange to me that people in real life could decide they don't love each other anymore; if you must know, my parents are divorced, and it was a messy and bitter break-up. Still waiting on the "seeing it as just a life experience" thing. So, don't presume that you can lecture me about what "the world" is about or about the realities of "eternal love". But this anime -- Da Capo -- was a love story, from the beginning of Episode 1 to the end of Episode 52. I'm simply saying that it wouldn't make sense for this show. And, frankly, I wouldn't really care to watch a show about people breaking up and "moving on" - I'd rather pretend, even if it's only for a little while, that there's still hope for this thing called "true love". Call me a romantic, I guess.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2006-01-15 at 00:06.
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Old 2006-01-14, 23:54   Link #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
- I'd rather pretend, even if it's only for a little while, that there's still hope for this thing called "true love". Call me a romantic, I guess.
There is a recent article publish in the science journal that so call true love (butterfly in stomach, lightheadness and rush of emotion when you see that special someone) doesn't last long. they measure the hormonal level of some couples(forgot how many) and how that most couples within a years had thier hormonal levels go back to normal. And most of those couples don't last long wither if they noting beyond "true love" to built thier relationship on.

If you guys haven't guess, i am cynic.

i expect the worst out of everyone and i expect the worst out of myself.
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Old 2006-01-15, 00:10   Link #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
There is a recent article publish in the science journal that so call true love (butterfly in stomach, lightheadness and rush of emotion when you see that special someone) doesn't last long. they measure the hormonal level of some couples(forgot how many) and how that most couples within a years had thier hormonal levels go back to normal. And most of those couples don't last long wither if they noting beyond "true love" to built thier relationship on.

If you guys haven't guess, i am cynic.

i expect the worst out of everyone and i expect the worst out of myself.
My point, though, was why would I want to watch a show that's has a cynical view of love, even if it's "realistic"? I already know what the real world is like. I certainly don't need a scientist to tell me that. Besides, even if there's every reason to be a pessimist, I'd rather choose to look on the bright side. But that's just me.

And, incidentally, the "butterfly in stomach" thing isn't love to begin with, not to mention "true love". Nobody ever said it was. What that study was talking about is "love at first sight" or "romantic love" (or, more like "physical attraction", really) - there's a huge difference.
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Old 2006-01-15, 01:38   Link #190
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All this talk about "true love" made me think of this. Funny and cynical. Enjoy.


Last edited by MonkeyBrains; 2006-01-15 at 02:58.
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Old 2006-01-15, 04:04   Link #191
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Our generation is doomed...

(I figured getting into a serious conversation about love around here would be somewhat pointless, but oh well... much more popular these days to say "give me action! give me angst! give me messy break-ups, violent confrontations, and a 'school days ending'... and that's entertainment!" than to say "give me a good tale with a good moral and a happily ever after". I guess you guys must not like fairy tales much. )
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Old 2006-01-15, 04:24   Link #192
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I like happy endings, but just happy endings is boring. (and massive, mindless destruction is ALWAYS GOOD ) I guess whats needed is balance, as I don't see many people asking for more messy stuff after hours of KGNE. (most complain about insufficiently happy ending...)

I guess its kinda funny that cynics watch love-love bishoujo anime. (or maybe that makes perfect sense: because they are so cynical about real life, they watch anime for escape?)

Quote:
If you guys haven't guess, i am cynic.

i expect the worst out of everyone and i expect the worst out of myself.
If everyone does the worst natually, wouldn't it result in exactly the current sistuation? (and thus normal) Even without 'perfect' motivation, or any motivation more complicated than chemistry, it doesn't mean we can't be happy or stick around people and go on normally. (after all, ignorant people live too)

People and events don't really change depending interpretion.

If you are pessimistic about the limits of possible knowledge, you'd realize interpretions such as those mean nothing to begin with. Whatever it is, if it feels like true love, it is, as that is the only definition. Something like that is never a objectively observed fact to begin with.

ze meta cynic
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Old 2006-01-15, 05:31   Link #193
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Originally Posted by SWPIGWANG
I like happy endings, but just happy endings is boring. (and massive, mindless destruction is ALWAYS GOOD ) I guess whats needed is balance, as I don't see many people asking for more messy stuff after hours of KGNE. (most complain about insufficiently happy ending...)
Well, you know, on further reflection, I think I misspoke. I don't think we got a "happily ever after", and what most people are complaining about, in regards to the show, is actually a variation of the latter ("insufficiently happy"). I'm too tired to put all the pieces together at the moment (trying, but it's not quite working ), but I think there's probably something to that. People want happy endings on their terms, maybe? Because of the first episode of Second Season, people decided in advance what would count as a "happy ending" to them this time? Hmm... I'll have to think about it some more tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWPIGWANG
I guess its kinda funny that cynics watch love-love bishoujo anime. (or maybe that makes perfect sense: because they are so cynical about real life, they watch anime for escape?)
Hmm... no argument here...
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Old 2006-01-15, 12:13   Link #194
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Quote:
No, I wouldn't say that I found it rude, but honestly I found it a bit disappointing (well, sort of) that you'd feel that way. I'm not here to "argue", so "agreeing" or "disagreeing" isn't the point in my mind. If we disagree, that's fine. I'm here to learn from other people; to exchange points of view and learn from that. I believe that, even if you believe or feel differently about an issue, you can learn from the other point of view, or at least come to appreciate that there are other ways of looking at things. So, I am genuinely interested in your point of view and in understanding it, but if you don't want to talk about it that's fine too. I mean, why talk about a show you didn't enjoy? Of course I understand that. So, please don't worry; I wasn't offended or anything. But if you ever do want to discuss it some more, I'm always interested in learning more about why you felt the way you did.
Ah, I see. Well then, I'm sorry about what I said before. It's not that I don't want to discuss - I always enjoy a good debate, and although DCSS might not have been that enjoyable for me, I'm a DC fan, so of course I like discussing about things regarding DC.

It's just that I thought that there wasn't much else to say on the subject; I thought that Kotori didn't really have a main role and you did. However, there's one thing that I'd like to address...

Quote:
That was the first time in the show (that I recall) that she actually acted to support Nemu, as opposed to just pulling back and retreating into her shell and regretting the chances she'd lost.
If you look carefully, she's always, always been supporting JyunichixNemu, and that's been hinted for a long while. From the moment when Jyunichi looked at Kotori when Aisha asked if he had a girlfriend and Kotori looked a little surprised, when she explained Aisha the situation between Jyunichi and Nemu, and in episodes 15, 20 (I think, the one where she talks with Aisha), 24, and many other things through the whole series. I didn't really find it as something new, since she's always known what the right thing to do is. It's true that she's struggled but she's always known it.

Really, the more I look at this, the more I think it's a story about how Jyunichi and Nemu are together and for that reason a bunch of girls harbour unrequited love, while Aisha watches and tries to change this; what Aisha doesn't understand is that sometimes life's just like that, stuff happen, and people move on and have to accept reality and grow up, and thus she's the main focus, even more so than Nemu, Jyunichi, and the girls. I just don't see Kotori as important to the plot individually in the same way Nemu, Jyunichi and Aisha are. It's more of a collective role she fulfills, along with the other girls.

I do agree that debating is interesting, and I'll answer if you answer this - but I really think we don't have much else to say since we've made our points and we clearly disagree. That's why I said everyone has their own views - I never intended to disappoint you or cut our conversation abruptly, and when I looked back, I thought I'd done that. I just thought that there wasn't much else to say, that's all.

As to whether they could break up Jyunichi and Nemu, they could have, but it'd have had to be a completely different story from what took place in DCSS, so who knows how they'd have done it? And, would I've enjoyed it if someone other than Nemu "won"? Maybe, but that depends on how things would play out. I'd have been more than happy with more focus and character growtn on other people than another love story of JyunichixNemu really.

On a side note, in a recent poll made in a japanese magazine, Nemu failed to make it to the 5 more popular "little sister" characters. Elis from Canvas 2 got first place, while our beloved Sakura was 3rd. All I can say is: woo.
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Old 2006-01-15, 12:21   Link #195
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Quote:
From relentlessflame
you were referring to this show
My mistake, i was just asking about haremseries in general.

Quote:
Still waiting on the "seeing it as just a life experience" thing
Everything good or bad that happens in our life is a experience, in mine opinion.
I have good and bad things happen to me, if i didn't take it as a life experience then i might make the same mistake (again).

Quote:
So, don't presume that you can lecture me about what "the world" is about or about the realities of "eternal love
I didn't lecture you, all i did ask was if love is eternal and later i ask you a retorical question.

Quote:
Da Capo -- was a love story, from the beginning of Episode 1 to the end of Episode 52
I only meant that why couldn't have jun'ichi and nemu broken up at the beginning of season 2, start fresh. I am not talking about what happend later.
Why is it that people come with reasons what happend in season 1, that they will not believe the possibility that jun'ichi and nemu could have broken up.
If it's well written then why not. That's all i asked!

Quote:
I wouldn't really care to watch a show about people breaking up and "moving on" - I'd rather pretend, even if it's only for a little while, that there's still hope for this thing called "true love". Call me a romantic, I guess
If it's well written, i would watch it. Although i am also a romantic and like happy endings, i am also a realist.
That's why i like the anime Gantz (eventhough it's a Gonzo production), I was hoping that some people would live and be brought back to life, but they died.
I accepted that a part of reality.

Quote:
From Xellos-_^
There is a recent article publish in the science journal
I also read that article in mine paper, it was an italian research group.
Leave it to the italians to discover that "love" only last 1 year.
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Old 2006-01-15, 12:35   Link #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
If it's well written, i would watch it.
Personally, I had more of a problem than what they wrote about in DCSS rather than how they wrote about it. I don't think the writing or storytelling was bad at all - in fact, it was good - but I didn't like that it was too much JyunichixNemu again, and I wanted more focus on other characters. So yeah...I think that everyone has their favourite type of shows.

For example, I've heard that Gunslinger Girl is a very well written show, but it's also very sad and depressing. That's an instant turnoff for me, and I wouldn't watch it even if it's good, since it's just not for me. And I feel that DCSS wasn't for me even if it wasn't bad at all; as I said, if I'm objective, I think it was, in terms of quality, better than season 1, which I didn't find all that good overall, even if I enjoyed it more than this; but here I didn't like the story itself, so it just wasn't for me.
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Old 2006-01-15, 12:56   Link #197
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Quote:
Frome AvatarST
Gunslinger Girl is a very well written show, but it's also very sad and depressing
I heard that it was badly written, not to logical show. I personally don't mind sad and depressing, as long as i know it beforehand.
But mine reason for not watching Gunslinger Girl is that there is no character development (i heard). Without that i usually don't watch a show.

Quote:
I wanted more focus on other characters
Yes, me too. Still puzzeled why they didn't give some people a ending. There isn't going to be a third season of da capo!
Wouldn't have made any difference to the da capo II game. Unless everything is going to be explained in the new game.
But somehow i don't believe that.
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Old 2006-01-15, 15:46   Link #198
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Originally Posted by AvatarST
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
Everything good or bad that happens in our life is a experience, in mine opinion.
I have good and bad things happen to me, if i didn't take it as a life experience then i might make the same mistake (again).
You missed my point, Searcher. It's easy to say "everything's a life experience that you can learn from", but try living some of those life experiences. Like, try watching your parents' 20-year marriage collapse before your eyes and spending the next years being awkwardly placed in the middle - maybe you have, I don't know. Sure, people go through that all the time (and all sorts of other bad experiences), and yes they do learn from it. But, it's so easy to say "just move on" until you actually try to do it, or until you live surrounded by people who won't or can't. Life isn't that simple. And, besides that, the experience is never fun or positive, at least at the time.
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Old 2006-01-15, 15:52   Link #199
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Old 2006-01-15, 16:13   Link #200
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