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Old 2006-01-11, 12:46   Link #161
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
We were mislead!

At least i was.
I was misled that DCSS was going to be a heart wrneching drama with the way they built up kotori in first few eps While I DIDN'T expect Kotori to actually beat out nemu as the girl to be. I was expecting a lot more out of her character then just silent suffering. The shows writers really waste a lot of potiential here.

As for Shuffle, arbitary isn't really a good word to describe. Arbitary would mean that they pull a ending out of a hat. And Shuffle, if you look back you can see the ending was plan form the start, with a lot of hints in the earlier episodes that didn't stand out till you see the ending.

As for DCSS, I feel since they didn't plan for Kotori to do much in the first place, they should have just cut the series length to 12 eps and not built kotori up in the first few eps.

My biggest problem with DCSS was that kotori was way to passive, instead of going down fighting for what she wants, she took it all passively
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Old 2006-01-11, 13:33   Link #162
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Ahh...I'd state my opinion. Spoiler tags since all 26 episodes aren't subbed...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
My biggest problem with DCSS was that kotori was way to passive, instead of going down fighting for what she wants, she took it all passively
It'd be out of character for Kotori to do that though. She's too nice to do what Nemu or Sakura did back in season 1.
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Old 2006-01-12, 03:40   Link #163
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Originally Posted by AvatarST
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It'd be out of character for Kotori to do that though. She's too nice to do what Nemu or Sakura did back in season 1.
At least I agree with this. People who expected all of Kotori's "bottled up" frustration to be unleashed in jealous fits of rage really haven't given much thought to what makes Kotori, Kotori. Although this may sound cruel, the thing that makes her most endearing is how she suffers in silence. It's her personality that makes her character loveable, and if she were to all of a sudden change, she wouldn't be the same Kotori anymore.

Really, Second Season is an homage to the characters the way they were presented in the game/first season. It provides closure to the series and one last curtain call for everyone, and in that sense (personally) I found it immensely enjoyable. Then again, season one is one of my all-time favorite animes. Oh well... As they say, your mileage may vary.

P.S. Not even going to get into the whole "I was mislead!" thing again. Watch the first episode again when the new subs come out, and decide for yourself.

Edit: P.P.S. As for Shuffle, please re-read my clarification by what I meant by "arbitrary" - context is key. In D.C., you always knew from the start. In Shuffle, there were hints, but there was also doubt/possibilities. D.C. was never about possibilities, which is one of the main themes of Shuffle (even in the game). Anyway, that's another story.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2006-01-12 at 04:53.
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Old 2006-01-12, 11:01   Link #164
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Old 2006-01-12, 12:16   Link #165
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Original/DCPS/DCPC ending?

Spoiler for Kotori Ending:
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Old 2006-01-12, 13:02   Link #166
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Original/DCPS/DCPC ending?

Spoiler for Kotori Ending:
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-01-12, 13:13   Link #167
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I think digging through Kurogane's screenshots will reveal all for that stuff.
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Old 2006-01-12, 14:23   Link #168
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I was talking about her ending in DCSS, where I don't personally think she had much of one.
I don't think any girl except aisia had any sort of an ending.

Quote:
It'd be out of character for Kotori to do that though
Why would it be out of her character? Cann't kotori get mad sometimes?
I had hoped that kotori would grow as a character, but that didn't happened.
Kotori still remained a sweet person who thinks of everybody else before her.
I would have hoped that she would get mad, or get stronger by deciding for herself that it's time to move on.
Put her feelings first and someone elses second.

Now i get visions of kotori liking another guy and when some other girl chases after him, kotori will back away, because she will think of that person feeling first and put hers second.

Ps. Is there new info about kotori's past in DC II?
Or did the producers wipe her past out in DC II?
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Old 2006-01-12, 14:34   Link #169
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Originally Posted by AvatarST
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Quote:
Originally Posted by searcher
kotori will back away, because she will think of that person feeling first and put hers second.
That's the magic that makes other people happy - sacrificing your own selfishness, and truly putting other people first. Welcome to the point of D.C.S.S. -- at least, in my opinion.
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Old 2006-01-12, 14:50   Link #170
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That's the magic that makes other people happy - sacrificing your own selfishness, and truly putting other people first. Welcome to the point of D.C.S.S. -- at least, in my opinion.
Dumb point in mine opinion.
That would mean that kotori would never be happy because she would keep other people's feelings first and never think about her's.
Even if she got married she would always put her husband feeling first, she would be just like a "slave".
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Old 2006-01-12, 15:19   Link #171
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Originally Posted by Searcher
Dumb point in mine opinion.
That would mean that kotori would never be happy because she would keep other people's feelings first and never think about her's.
Even if she got married she would always put her husband feeling first, she would be just like a "slave".
Well, I don't know... The idea here would be that true love means always putting the other person first. If you're in the sort of relationship where both people are looking out for the other person (see Junichi x Kotori in the game), that can bring true happiness to both people. Obviously, people with Kotori's personality type are highly vulnerable to people who would "take take take", but that's why Kotori fell in love with Junichi back when she had her mind-reading powers. She saw in him someone who truly cared about others - a real "nice guy" - as opposed to all the rest of the guys at school who all wanted her because she was cute/popular/whatever. Hopefully, in the story universe post second-season, she's able to find another guy like that who can return her feelings. I guess D.C. II may tell.
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Old 2006-01-12, 15:26   Link #172
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wifes in japan

you do know japanese culture right? the wifes role is to support the husband and put the husbands wishes 1st.

this isnt america or europe. asia/japan is a very male dominated world.

sides who says one cant find personal happiness by helping the person you love be happy. when she marries who is to say that she wont be happy making sure that her husband comes 1st?
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Old 2006-01-12, 16:15   Link #173
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I know the japanese culture, but atleast have kotori some backbone, just a little would be enough.
Besides supporting the husband doesn't mean you have to be weak.

Quote:
who is to say that she wont be happy making sure that her husband comes 1st
Hmmm, picturing kotori married life.

Husband: I am having an affair with mine secretary!
Kotori: Whatever makes you happy

A good relationship means giving and taking!
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Old 2006-01-12, 16:21   Link #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


In addition to your reply to Searcher (and although it's probably the same thing you said but in a different way), I agree that Kotori was right to step back since she wasn't the one who Jyunichi loved. So yes, Kotori puts other people first - but what relentlessflame meant when he said "sacrificing your own selfishness and truly putting other people first" was obviously referring when that's the right thing to do.
However, even if she was the one Jyunichi loved, if there was competition, she might still step back ...she cares that much about other people, and she's that insecure. However, both in DCSS and in Kotori's route in DCPC we are told that love wins over all, as corny as that sounds; if the guy truly loves her, then he wouldn't let her go. Hell...Kotori's route is so perfect that even Nemu is actually nice in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
Hopefully, in the story universe post second-season, she's able to find another guy like that who can return her feelings. I guess D.C. II may tell.
I feel that part of the reason why Kotori is so loved is that she's so miserable a lot of the time. We all want her to be happy but she won't be, so we love her more and keep hopelessly wishing that she'll once find truly happiness. Will Circus change this in DCII to please the fans or will they keep portraying Kotori as someone who is too nice yet can't find the correct way for her? (at least, in the anime, since she finds happiness in the game in her route and is actually one of the characters they give the most attention to).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BettiePage
you do know japanese culture right? the wifes role is to support the husband and put the husbands wishes 1st.
I wonder if that's the reason why Nemu is actually a lot more popular in Japan (even if from what I've seen she's still behind Kotori), since she basically goes against the whole submissive thing and puts herself first a lot of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
I know the japanese culture, but atleast have kotori some backbone, just a little would be enough.
Besides supporting the husband doesn't mean you have to be weak.
Kotori's a lot stronger than you think when she gets over her insecurities (well, to a point, she'll always be a little insecure) in the game. She's not as submissive as other characters, she's just a truly nice, but overall quite normal girl, and somewhat playful too.

In fact, in both DCWS and DCSV, jealously and conflict play a part in Kotori's paths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
Hmmm, picturing kotori married life.

Husband: I am having an affair with mine secretary!
Kotori: Whatever makes you happy
Not unless her husband is scum. She just has to be lucky in who she falls in love with. Anime Jyunichi is meh, but game Jyunichi is actually cooler, so at least in the game she has good taste ^^. Both ways, I suspect she might pick someone as clueless and lazy as Jyunichi, but never a bad person.
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Old 2006-01-12, 16:57   Link #175
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It'd be out of character for Kotori to do that though. She's too nice to do what Nemu or Sakura did back in season 1.
Probably true, but it is not a very fair comparison. Since early childhood, Nemu and Sakura have been rivals for the affection of the people who mattered the most to them - Junichi and grandmother Yoshino. Given that history, it is only natural that there would be a lot more bitterness between the two of them than Kotori would likely feel toward them or one of the other girls. That said, I do think that Kotori - and Moe as well - are the most truly gentle souls in the series.

BTW - I only pop through occasionally because the discussion here is mostly about the end of the series and since I'm watching the subs I'm still back at episode 20. Can't avoid all spoilage, but I'm trying to keep it to a minimum.
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Old 2006-01-12, 17:03   Link #176
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Originally Posted by Furudanuki
Probably true, but it is not a very fair comparison. Since early childhood, Nemu and Sakura have been rivals for the affection of the people who mattered the most to them - Junichi and grandmother Yoshino. Given that history, it is only natural that there would be a lot more bitterness between the two of them than Kotori would likely feel toward them or one of the other girls. That said, I do think that Kotori - and Moe as well - are the most truly gentle souls in the series.
Oh I agree, it's not a fair comparison, especially since in the game, Sakura is the only route where Nemu also "blows up" like she did in the anime. However, Sakura's not the only girl that Nemu ever gets jealous of - that's just part of her personality...while Kotori's a lot more level headed and just nicer, so I doubt she'd react the same way...

As for Sakura, I agree. I think she grew up a lot as well, but she was rather mature to begin with, as funny as that sounds.

The most gentle souls in the series, mm...I'd say that Moe is nicer than Kotori, and Tamaki, Alice, Yoriko and Misaki are at least at the same level.
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Old 2006-01-12, 17:06   Link #177
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Old 2006-01-12, 17:24   Link #178
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Old 2006-01-12, 17:59   Link #179
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Old 2006-01-12, 18:03   Link #180
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But that's just me - you clearly wanted something else out of the plot, and that's another story.
Oh I did, but as you said, that's another story.

I disagree with your analysis on Kotori's role, though I can see where you're coming from. However, I think our argument would be endless, so I think that we should just agree to disagree here. Everyone has their own views, after all.
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