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Old 2009-01-11, 14:56   Link #1301
Kakashi
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Thought that was an excellent post.

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Originally Posted by LiviaKarv View Post
Actually, IMO, she has already shown signs of moving on. She said, on ch317, "Maybe it's impossible to feel the exact same way as someone else - but you can treasure your friends and keep them close in your heart". That's a big step for the girl that, out of her five friends, only thanked 'kurosaki-kun' for coming to save her a few chapters ago, I'd say.

I would love to discuss more about Orihime's feelings. I think there's something changing there - anyone agree? disagree?
There's a chance you're right, but it's unlikely. Because since her confession, in which she proclaimed five lifetimes worth of love, only a few days have passed at most. That's a pretty drastic change of heart in such a short time-span. And what would be the reason? She hasn't seen anything to discourage her, like Ichigo reinforcing her suspicions that Rukia is the girl for Ichigo, it's been the opposite. She didn't think she could influence him like Rukia could, but proved herself wrong against Grimmjow. She didn't think Ichigo came to save her, only to come to the conclusion that he did.
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Old 2009-01-11, 15:37   Link #1302
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Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
There's a chance you're right, but it's unlikely. Because since her confession, in which she proclaimed five lifetimes worth of love, only a few days have passed at most. That's a pretty drastic change of heart in such a short time-span. And what would be the reason? She hasn't seen anything to discourage her, like Ichigo reinforcing her suspicions that Rukia is the girl for Ichigo, it's been the opposite. She didn't think she could influence him like Rukia could, but proved herself wrong against Grimmjow. She didn't think Ichigo came to save her, only to come to the conclusion that he did.
I gotta disagree with you on this one Kakashi. I've seen the change in her too.

It may have only been a few days since she last said goodbye to Ichigo, but those have been a very long few days for her. She's spent hours on her own, completely removed from everything that is known and familiar. She's had the TIME to re-evaluate her relationships with everyone, including her relationship with Ichigo.

And let's not forget that Ulquiorra's role as her interrogator as well. He's consistently asking her difficult questions, questioning the loyalty of her friends, their loyalty to her and her faith in the strength of the bonds of friendship they share.

It sounds to me as though Orihime has come to the realization herself that her love is one-sided. It's an incredible epiphany for her to make, one that will lead her character to mature and grow beyond a naive and childish sixteen year old girl she has been up until now. Comparing her character from season one to what she is now is like comparing two completely different people. She has changed and matured in many aspects, so why not this as well?

If you put it into perspective and take out all the magic, the special powers and the being dead aspects of their lives what are they but high school students? I'm not trying to trivialize her feelings but let's at least be honest about the situation. At that age every relationship is earth shattering. You don't just like a guy or girl in your class you love them. When you go through a break up your world is shattered and you can't even see how it's possible to live in your world without them. But people rarely find true love and lasting affection within the walls of their high school and realizing that these pubescent romantic relationships will rarely, if ever, amount to what we hope them to be is part of the growing up process.

I think this arc more than any other has revealed to Orihime that Ichigo isn't the perfect boy she thought he was. If you read how she spoke of him before this arc - Ichigo can do no wrong. What she had for him was infatuation, not love. The scene where she feels aversion to his Vizard self was her turning point. It was probably the first time since she's known him that his presence wasn't a source of constant adoration and affection for her. It was a rude wake up call and I think its made her realize that Ichigo is not perfect. The question now is whether she can develop a true and sincere love of him despite him not being who she thought he was, or if she can't.
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Old 2009-01-11, 16:02   Link #1303
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There is absolutely no reason to "realize" that her love is one-sided. We know next to nothing on Ichigo's side of things. The only thing we do know is he likes stroking his bankai. The only way to know is for him to find out. Plain and simple. Having Inoue not confess is the same as having her regress back to how she was at the beginning. Then what would be the point of these past nearly 3 and half years for Inoue in the series?

Its the same as running away, as someone who's been around for nearly 27 years and have seen and been in many different kind of relationships. Not conveying your feelings to see what will happen is nothing but a chicken shit action no matter what reason you try to put behind it. And you simply don't deserve to be love if you bow to that kind of cowardice. The mental state of "oh he/she doesn't love me, so I shouldn't even try" is nothing but an excuse, hear it from the horses mouth before making a final conclusion.

Inoue hasn't reached a conclusion with what she should do with her feelings. People try to use that particular chapter as a shady evidence. But, Inoue was speaking about everyone as a whole not about Ichigo.

Inoue never saw Ichigo as perfect. Its his imperfections and kind heart that made her fell in love with him. Its a dirty misconception and slander to make such assumptions. Unless someone would to show me where there was a thought process where she think he's perfect? I'm 100% certain anyone will find on such evidence.

On a last note, of course she'll move on if a rejection happens. But don't expect everything to go back to normal. Tension will exist to the point of a drift. Inoue will move on away from the group. But of course her haters would love to see that happen.

I wouldn't jump to any conclusion if I were you. There's no definitive, only assumptions up to this point. And saying Ichigo treats Inoue like Chad and Ishida is turning a blind eye on everything that has happened to this point. Ulq. will continue to use Inoue to antagonize Ichigo, that much is a dead giveaway. We can't predict what will happen though, but I'm certain Kubo won't disappoint. Physically its a fight between the two guys, but mentally and emotionally it'll be between Ichigo and Inoue.
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Old 2009-01-11, 17:00   Link #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
I gotta disagree with you on this one Kakashi. I've seen the change in her too.

It may have only been a few days since she last said goodbye to Ichigo, but those have been a very long few days for her. She's spent hours on her own, completely removed from everything that is known and familiar. She's had the TIME to re-evaluate her relationships with everyone, including her relationship with Ichigo.

And let's not forget that Ulquiorra's role as her interrogator as well. He's consistently asking her difficult questions, questioning the loyalty of her friends, their loyalty to her and her faith in the strength of the bonds of friendship they share.

It sounds to me as though Orihime has come to the realization herself that her love is one-sided. It's an incredible epiphany for her to make, one that will lead her character to mature and grow beyond a naive and childish sixteen year old girl she has been up until now. Comparing her character from season one to what she is now is like comparing two completely different people. She has changed and matured in many aspects, so why not this as well?
She has had time, but you're making the assumption that there's something inherently wrong with her love, and she knows it. Even it is faux love, it would be a grand canyon-like leap to come to that realization when all the actions Ichigo has taken since her confession have shown his compassion. How can anyone fall out of love with someone who's just jumped into hell to save them?

Quote:
If you put it into perspective and take out all the magic, the special powers and the being dead aspects of their lives what are they but high school students? I'm not trying to trivialize her feelings but let's at least be honest about the situation. At that age every relationship is earth shattering. You don't just like a guy or girl in your class you love them. When you go through a break up your world is shattered and you can't even see how it's possible to live in your world without them. But people rarely find true love and lasting affection within the walls of their high school and realizing that these pubescent romantic relationships will rarely, if ever, amount to what we hope them to be is part of the growing up process.
Agreed, but there is that odd chance that first time love actually works out. It also happens to be a recurring theme in manga and anime, especially when the object of her affection saved her life multiple times and has generally been a great guy (of course he seems more like a gay guy to me). Her love has real substance here, because Ichigo has justified that affection.

Not only that, but her feelings have actually matured over time. Initially she idiolized him as a prince, and during the SS arc her feelings for him were akin to a school girl crush. But it's undeniable that she has actually grown to understand him. If we were to split up the manga into 3 segments, then they would be SS, the time inbetween SS and HM, and HM.

SS - crush
Karakura - love
HM - ?

The general trend indicates her feelings are only intensifying, and I really do want Orihime to at least give it a shot.
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Old 2009-01-11, 17:08   Link #1305
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
There is absolutely no reason to "realize" that her love is one-sided. We know next to nothing on Ichigo's side of things. The only thing we do know is he likes stroking his bankai. The only way to know is for him to find out. Plain and simple. Having Inoue not confess is the same as having her regress back to how she was at the beginning. Then what would be the point of these past nearly 3 and half years for Inoue in the series?

Its the same as running away, as someone who's been around for nearly 27 years and have seen and been in many different kind of relationships. Not conveying your feelings to see what will happen is nothing but a chicken shit action no matter what reason you try to put behind it. And you simply don't deserve to be love if you bow to that kind of cowardice. The mental state of "oh he/she doesn't love me, so I shouldn't even try" is nothing but an excuse, hear it from the horses mouth before making a final conclusion.

Inoue hasn't reached a conclusion with what she should do with her feelings. People try to use that particular chapter as a shady evidence. But, Inoue was speaking about everyone as a whole not about Ichigo.

Inoue never saw Ichigo as perfect. Its his imperfections and kind heart that made her fell in love with him. Its a dirty misconception and slander to make such assumptions. Unless someone would to show me where there was a thought process where she think he's perfect? I'm 100% certain anyone will find on such evidence.

On a last note, of course she'll move on if a rejection happens. But don't expect everything to go back to normal. Tension will exist to the point of a drift. Inoue will move on away from the group. But of course her haters would love to see that happen.

I wouldn't jump to any conclusion if I were you. There's no definitive, only assumptions up to this point. And saying Ichigo treats Inoue like Chad and Ishida is turning a blind eye on everything that has happened to this point. Ulq. will continue to use Inoue to antagonize Ichigo, that much is a dead giveaway. We can't predict what will happen though, but I'm certain Kubo won't disappoint. Physically its a fight between the two guys, but mentally and emotionally it'll be between Ichigo and Inoue.
Well if you're going to use that logic you need to look at both sides of the coin.

From your perspective Ichigo's negligence to openly demonstrate any romantic interest towards Orihime, or any interest that goes beyond friendship for that matter, is because he hasn't realized it yet due to being preoccupied with other things, like saving the world and his friends' lives and having no knowledge of Orihime's true feelings for him (unless I misinterpreted your post).

The other side of that coin is that his lack of demonstration is indicative that he HAS no feelings towards her in that regard. In that context, to suggest such feelings for Ichigo exist but have yet to be realized would not only be a great assumption, but also an erroneous one.

Why is Ichigo's affection for Orihime dependent upon her admitting her true feelings to him? Would Ichigo's feelings for her, should they be romantic, not exist before that point? Is the suggestion here that it will take Orihime's confession for Ichigo to come to the realization that he cares for her beyond a friend as well?

I find it difficult to reconcile that scenario with what's been presented to us regarding their relationship in the manga thus far. Ichigo regards Orhime has one of his close friends, but beyond that I haven't seen anything to suggest his sentiments for her extend beyond that realm. For him to suddenly go from such a platonic relationship with her (from his perspective anyway) to something deeper and more romantic via a confession of affection from her would strike me as not only odd but also unbelievable. If those sentiments existed in Ichigo, even at the barest level, there should have been clear(er) evidence of them by now.

I didn't try to suggest that Orihime has reached any definitive conclusions regarding her relationship with Ichigo, or even how she views herself. As with many things, it's a process. She's evolving slowly, developing new ideas and new realizations about the people who are most important to her and her own self worth. It's what she does with this knew knowledge that will be important.

In all honesty, I don't think Orihime will ever confess her true feelings to Ichigo. It will be implied in every smile, every look, and every gesture, but never outright stated. The reason for this is that Kubo seems to have developed a particular template of unrequited love when it comes to relationships in the Bleach universe:

Character A will love Character B but will refrain from telling them outright while Character B carries on with the relationship considering Character A a platonic friend (or very close friend) and nothing more.

Kubo has given several examples of such relationships already - one is Renji and Rukia's relationship. From my perspective, at least, it's apparently obvious that he loves her. Rukia, on the other hand, treats their relationship like a platonic friendship - they are very close but nothing more. I don't want to delve into them all but a few more examples to consider would be: Rukia and Kaien, Soi Fong and Yoruichi, Hitsugaya and Hinamori, Ishida and Orihime, etc.

Considering we already have these examples of such a relationship being utilized within the Bleach universe, I don't think it'd be unreasonable to expect that Kubo would use the same template with Ichigo and Orihime. I understand how badly the Ichi/Orihime shippers would like to see these two end up together, but considering the restrictions of it being a shonen manga, I think this is the most likely outcome for them.
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Old 2009-01-11, 17:24   Link #1306
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Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
She has had time, but you're making the assumption that there's something inherently wrong with her love, and she knows it. Even it is faux love, it would be a grand canyon-like leap to come to that realization when all the actions Ichigo has taken since her confession have shown his compassion. How can anyone fall out of love with someone who's just jumped into hell to save them?



Agreed, but there is that odd chance that first time love actually works out. It also happens to be a recurring theme in manga and anime, especially when the object of her affection saved her life multiple times and has generally been a great guy (of course he seems more like a gay guy to me). Her love has real substance here, because Ichigo has justified that affection.

Not only that, but her feelings have actually matured over time. Initially she idiolized him as a prince, and during the SS arc her feelings for him were akin to a school girl crush. But it's undeniable that she has actually grown to understand him. If we were to split up the manga into 3 segments, then they would be SS, the time inbetween SS and HM, and HM.

SS - crush
Karakura - love
HM - ?

The general trend indicates her feelings are only intensifying, and I really do want Orihime to at least give it a shot.
I didn't suggest that she fell OUT of love with Ichigo, just that how she evaluated that love has changed. She herself realized that Ichigo would do the same (as in coming to HM) for any of his close friends as he has done for her. To this end, her speech to Ulquiorra about how she realized that had the same thing happened to one of her friends she would have done the same and come to HM to save them I think speaks volumes.

Keep in mind too, that unrequited love is also a recurring and very dominant theme in anime and manga - particularly when it comes to the Bleach universe (see my previous post).

To be honest, I find the notion that she has grown to love Ichigo even more than she had previously something of a conundrum. I keep asking myself "based on what?"

I find it hard to grasp the concept that one person can fall so completely in love with another, to the extent that Orihime claims to love Ichigo, when they've had maybe a couple of one-on-one conversations in the entire time they've known each other. Ichigo very very rarely speaks with Orihime alone. There is always someone else there acting as a buffer between them or the rest of the group is hovering close by in the background. We don't see scenes of Ichigo and Orihime walking home together from school and shooting the breeze (even once Rukia WAS out of the picture). Even during the Kenpachi/Noi fight when he had every opportunity to talk to her while she was healing him he said nothing and neither did she.

I guess I find it hard to understand how someone can claim to love and understand someone else so completely when they've haven't had the chance to get to know them on an intimate level (no, not sexually you pervs) by actually talking with them. Kubo's had every opportunity to develop this connection between them and has chosen not to. Perhaps we need to be taking a look at his motives as well.
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Old 2009-01-11, 17:58   Link #1307
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I didn't suggest that she fell OUT of love with Ichigo, just that how she evaluated that love has changed. She herself realized that Ichigo would do the same (as in coming to HM) for any of his close friends as he has done for her. To this end, her speech to Ulquiorra about how she realized that had the same thing happened to one of her friends she would have done the same and come to HM to save them I think speaks volumes.
But there is a reason Kubo decided to have Orihime kidnapped in favour of someone else, like Chad. Truth is, they do share a weird type of relationship. It's a bit stifled and awkward, which is why I find it romantic in a way. It's like they're trying to speak to eachother and express themselves but constipation gets in the way.

When Ichigo blocked those warheads Grimmjow fired at Orihime, there was a little parenthesis along the side panel saying 'their eyes meet'. I'm not saying that's proof of romance, but would that digression be there if Chad was the captive?

Quote:
I guess I find it hard to understand how someone can claim to love and understand someone else so completely when they've haven't had the chance to get to know them on an intimate level (no, not sexually you pervs) by actually talking with them. Kubo's had every opportunity to develop this connection between them and has chosen not to. Perhaps we need to be taking a look at his motives as well.
What if you're just not looking? I don't how the hell she knows so much about him, but she does. Let's just say she pays a lot of attention to him. I got used to that from very early on (skim read chapter 58) so it seems natural to me. Some stuff that you guys question just seems strange and excessive. I think the manga Kubo's trying to portray is a little more light-hearted than that. We'll just have to wait and see though.

Fucking awesome sig btw.

Last edited by Kakashi; 2009-01-11 at 18:26.
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Old 2009-01-11, 19:15   Link #1308
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But there is a reason Kubo decided to have Orihime kidnapped in favour of someone else, like Chad. Truth is, they do share a weird type of relationship. It's a bit stifled and awkward, which is why I find it romantic in a way. It's like they're trying to speak to eachother and express themselves but constipation gets in the way.

When Ichigo blocked those warheads Grimmjow fired at Orihime, there was a little parenthesis along the side panel saying 'their eyes meet'. I'm not saying that's proof of romance, but would that digression be there if Chad was the captive?



What if you're just not looking? I don't how the hell she knows so much about him, but she does. Let's just say she pays a lot of attention to him. I got used to that from very early on (skim read chapter 58) so it seems natural to me. Some stuff that you guys question just seems strange and excessive. I think the manga Kubo's trying to portray is a little more light-hearted than that. We'll just have to wait and see though.

Fucking awesome sig btw.
True, there would definitely be an entirely different dynamic if Chad were the captive and not Orihime.

I think it certainly needs to be considered that Kubo chose Orihime because it makes for better reading. A guy risking death to save his best friend is a pretty good story - noble at the very least (Naruto anyone?). A guy risking death to save the life of a girl who loves him is drama - it sucks you in and makes you root for the characters, particularly the one that's in love. This arc is very much the damsel in distress scenario (he pretty much hits you over the head with it the most recent 'I've left the princess in the tower' bit). Since that's what Kubo is going for it simply wouldn't have been as effective with any other character.

There are a lot of things Orihime knows and understand about Ichigo and many that she doesn't. For their relationship to evolve and move forward he needs to start talking to her. So far he hasn't done that. They are constipated and awkward around each other and until they can get past that they don't have much hope of ending up happily ever after.

Thanks re: the sig I read the quote and it instantly made me think of Gin. I've wanted a Gin sig for the longest time but Naruto_Demon finally made it happen. I agree it looks incredible
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Old 2009-01-11, 20:23   Link #1309
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Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
She has had time, but you're making the assumption that there's something inherently wrong with her love, and she knows it. Even it is faux love, it would be a grand canyon-like leap to come to that realization when all the actions Ichigo has taken since her confession have shown his compassion. How can anyone fall out of love with someone who's just jumped into hell to save them?
.
I think you are mistaken. No one said that she has fallen out of love with Ichigo. It's so much a part of her character. I truly believe that she cannot do so. What langus is saying is... She seems to have accepted that her feelings will not be reciprocated. She seems to understand that just being a friend to the one you love is not a bad thing. She seems to accepted that in life everyone you love will not love you back. Or they may love you but not in the same way. That is major progress. I believe that she is strong enough to survive her feelings never being returned. That is the Orihime that I'd like to see. Not the one who turns on the waterworks and rings her hands over how fantastic Rukia is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
Not only that, but her feelings have actually matured over time. Initially she idiolized him as a prince, and during the SS arc her feelings for him were akin to a school girl crush. But it's undeniable that she has actually grown to understand him. If we were to split up the manga into 3 segments, then they would be SS, the time inbetween SS and HM, and HM.

SS - crush
Karakura - love
HM - ?

The general trend indicates her feelings are only intensifying, and I really do want Orihime to at least give it a shot.
I disagree. I think both her crush and "Five Lifetimes of love" is both borne of hero-worship.
She began to crush on him pre SS. He saved her, and she admired him for being a secret hero. It was also during this time she fell in love with him vicariously. In SS arc the same thing. Seeing his determination to save Rukia, the feats he was able to accomplish because of that determination. Further added to her ideal of Ichigo. Because that is all she has with him. They have never had any type of bond-forming interactions. So her feelings cannot be "true love". She has yet to truly get to know Ichigo. She loves what she knows "Of him". Their relationship cannot be seen as a "true romance" because her feelings are one-sided.

Her feelings for Ichigo can be, because "unrequited love " is also romantic in nature


I think she has the courage to confess. I just think she hasn't because she thinks it would be futile rightfully so... She believes that Ichigo's feelings for Rukia are so deep, there is no room for her. rightfully so...

I think she will either confess and get the "Arigato. Your feelings have reached me but I cannot return them" speech. Or just as she is about to confess. Ichigo will see Rukia and he will give her such a look of love. Orihime will make an excuse for the reason she wanted to talk to him instead of confessing

Or KT will leave it open for the reader to image thier own ending...

If Ichigo were to return her feelings it would be odd. However after thinking about it in-depth. There is a way for him to imply that Ichigo will come to love Orihime.

He could have Rukia bid them farewell at the end of Bleach and say "Take care of him for me Orihime" and imply that Ichigo will fall in love with her at some point after Bleach has ended... That is the only way. Otherwise her prospects look grim.

Like Livi said..."- Ichiruki is currently platonic and Ichihime is currently one-sided"
IchiRuki has a better chance of being couple since they have a relationship of substance. Whereas IchiHime only has Orihime's feelings for Ichigo to bank on...
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Old 2009-01-11, 22:57   Link #1310
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Ichigo is the type who wouldn't think about relationships unless someone takes the initiative or unless something dramatic enough to occur to force him to re-evaluate how he feels about them. And throughout HM, that's exactly whats occurring. The constant, "Is it because of her?" , "Are you simply just glad that she's safe?" It's all making him think.

Oh and Inoue has crushed on Ichigo for a long time, before the series has started. Tatsuki has always been giving her advice on how to get him, usually to rape him since that's the only way he'll know.

Inoue has no hero worship, I'm still trying to figure out where this is coming from. If she worshiped him as some hero, god, whatever, she wouldn't be angst'ing all the time over his safety, she'll believe that he'll whip out his genitals and bitch slap every opponent that comes his way. No, Inoue knows that he gets seriously hurt all the time, that he's not the strongest. That's why she strives to protect him, why she wants to get stronger so he doesn't have to get hurt anymore. This has been recurring since she got her powers.

Ichigo has always been overbearingly protective to Inoue. Standing up for her whenever someone yells at her or does something inappropriate with her. etc etc.. I'll make a repost on how Ichigo behaves around Inoue. To make this easier on myself *copies and pastes* And please be sure to read the comments carefully, I've seen quite a few replies from certain people who never took the time to read carefully.

Spoiler for space:
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Old 2009-01-11, 23:44   Link #1311
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This is why I like debating with you HT because you bring it all to the plate. What a great post - it certainly does a lot to clarify what the Ichi/Orihime shippers are seeing and where they're coming from. I've gone through and annotated certain areas where your argument is weak so that perhaps next time you use it it'll be stronger. I didn't have a chance to respond to all of it, but I'm sure you get the idea.

Spoiler for space:
[/QUOTE]
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Old 2009-01-12, 02:35   Link #1312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
This is why I like debating with you HT because you bring it all to the plate. What a great post - it certainly does a lot to clarify what the Ichi/Orihime shippers are seeing and where they're coming from. I've gone through and annotated certain areas where your argument is weak so that perhaps next time you use it it'll be stronger. I didn't have a chance to respond to all of it, but I'm sure you get the idea.

Spoiler for space:
[/QUOTE]

Yeah the comments with those images are outdated, I've been meaning to go back and update my thoughts, but I'm inheritly lazy about most things. Interestingly enough, some of the comments you've made are what I've been thinking
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Old 2009-01-12, 06:09   Link #1313
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She seems to understand that just being a friend to the one you love is not a bad thing. She seems to accepted that in life everyone you love will not love you back. Or they may love you but not in the same way. That is major progress.
That's not progress, that's shooting yourself in the foot. On what planet is progress giving up on the man you love? Until you get a proper response, that's chickening-out because of self-doubt or overglorifying a relationship he has with someone else. You'd be suprised how many obstacles people set up for themselves. HT said it best.

Quote:
If Ichigo were to return her feelings it would be odd. However after thinking about it in-depth. There is a way for him to imply that Ichigo will come to love Orihime.
You're looking at it too short term. I agree that right now Ichigo returning her feelings would be odd, but they still have a lot to go through together. This fight with Ulq will clarify a lot, since Ichigo is fighting him on the basis that he forced Orihime to come to HM. Just like when Ichigo was fighting Byakuya for Rukia, he's now fighting Ulquiorra for Orihime.

Orihime has actually had a lot more interaction with Ichigo than Rukia did in their respective arcs. So things aren't as one-sided as you think. Gotta agree with Langus the wise though:

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Originally Posted by Langus View Post
There are a lot of things Orihime knows and understand about Ichigo and many that she doesn't. For their relationship to evolve and move forward he needs to start talking to her. So far he hasn't done that. They are constipated and awkward around each other and until they can get past that they don't have much hope of ending up happily ever after.
----
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Like Livi said..."- Ichiruki is currently platonic and Ichihime is currently one-sided"
IchiRuki has a better chance of being couple since they have a relationship of substance. Whereas IchiHime only has Orihime's feelings for Ichigo to bank on...
Except that Ichigo is close to Orihime as well. I agree to an extent because Ichigo feels more strongly for Rukia right now. I'm betting that will balance out soon. I've said it before but this relationship thing is closely run, whoever says that it's obvious is being arrogant. Especially with the chances of nothing resulting from it all being even higher.
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Old 2009-01-12, 06:18   Link #1314
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Ichigo is the type who wouldn't think about relationships unless someone takes the initiative or unless something dramatic enough to occur to force him to re-evaluate how he feels about them. And throughout HM, that's exactly whats occurring. The constant, "Is it because of her?" , "Are you simply just glad that she's safe?" It's all making him think.
Did it ever occur to you...

That what Ichigo thought about was the fact that he hadn't thought about her at all?

That Ulquiorra also said "All of them"? That friendship has been the focus of this arc? That Orihime herself speaks of frienship and not love? That unlike SS arc Ichigo is constantly reminded that he hasn't thought about Orihime like he should have? Instead of "making him think", he's actually had to be made to remember? (Constantly)
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Oh and Inoue has crushed on Ichigo for a long time, before the series has started.
There is no proof of that.
There is only evidence, that she was crushing on him at the start of the series.
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Inoue has no hero worship, I'm still trying to figure out where this is coming from. If she worshiped him as some hero, god, whatever, she wouldn't be angst'ing all the time over his safety, she'll believe that he'll whip out his genitals and bitch slap every opponent that comes his way. No, Inoue knows that he gets seriously hurt all the time, that he's not the strongest. That's why she strives to protect him, why she wants to get stronger so he doesn't have to get hurt anymore. This has been recurring since she got her powers.
You know, I find that I agree with you. You made me realize, she does lack faith in Ichigo. That is another reason they don't suit. He does not need a woman as emo he is. A person who doesn't have confidence in him. A person who cannot bring him out of his funk.
Orihime worries about Ichigo because she cares about him. It's natural to worry about someone when you care about them. It does'nt matter how strong you know them to be.

Hero Worship? Where does it come from?

When first asked about why she liked Ichigo. She could name nothing about him. Just she liked his "funny faces". Then the incident with her brother, Ichigo rescuing her-- Since she never forgot it. She tells Tatsuki that she thinks he's a secret hero. Tatsuki then began to tell her about this "Hero". When she drew her "future me" she envisioned herself as a a magical-girl-mecha-something. Look at the the things she wanted to do before she died. Astronaut & Teacher, have five different careers. All of that points to heroism If she met a guy who embodied that idea. You don't think she'd develp a really big crush on him?That's exactly what happend.

Orihime has sworn "Five Lifetimes" of love. Yet, I have never heard her say why she loves Ichigo. Except for the "funny faces" she's really never said. All I have to go on is... Her feelings for him seem to grow after he rescued her. & While she was watching him save other people. Which brings me back to hero-worship. Because that is all that I have to go on. Since they don't have anything of substance, that occurred between them.
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post

Tatsuki has always been giving her advice on how to get him, usually to rape him since that's the only way he'll know.
Which is why I said she fell in love with him vicariously. She likes what she knows of the "Ichigo" in Tatsuki's memories. She does not know the real person. Instead of learning these things from Ichigo himself. Instead of learning sbout him, while she was forming a bond with him. She learns it from Tatsuki. Only her feelings are being developed. Instead Rukia and Ichigo form a bond. It is she, who learns of his pain over his mother's death. ( Straight from the horse's mouth)

That the basis of Ichigo and Orihime's relationship. She learns about him second hand. Only in HM arc has she ever witnessed or perhaps I should say shared a moment with Ichigo. The only thing they were few, and not really the kind that a love match develops from.

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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Ichigo has always been overbearingly protective to Inoue. Standing up for her whenever someone yells at her or does something inappropriate with her. etc etc..
"overbearingly protective" protective is a stretch. He's "overbearingly protective" of Rukia. Still... he has been known to show concern over his fellow-man, Plus, or Chibi Arrancar.

Tatsuki is "overbearingly protective" of Orihime. So does mean they have shot at being canon? Doing a hero's job is not a good example of "couple material"

You don't have to be in-love with a person to show concern for them. You don't have to love a person to show concern for them. You don't even have to to know a person to show concern for them. You could meet a total stranger and be touched by their misfortune, and be genuinely concerned about them.

There are some people who have what we call "bleeding hearts". Ichigo happens to be one of them.
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Old 2009-01-12, 08:39   Link #1315
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Originally Posted by hakisak View Post
Did it ever occur to you...

That what Ichigo thought about was the fact that he hadn't thought about her at all?
Oh wow, are you serious? So........................ he never thought about Inoue at all? never once? He went to HM for no particular reason, just for shits and giggles? Omg you are soooo right, how come I never thought of that?

Quote:

That Ulquiorra also said "All of them"? That friendship has been the focus of this arc? That Orihime herself speaks of frienship and not love? That unlike SS arc Ichigo is constantly reminded that he hasn't thought about Orihime like he should have? Instead of "making him think", he's actually had to be made to remember? (Constantly)
*facepalm* yes yes lets ignore what the conversation is really about. Ichigo's conversation with Ulq. wasn't about the others, it was about Inoue. And Inoue's conversation isn't about love its about whats giving her so much faith.

Quote:
There is no proof of that.
There is only evidence, that she was crushing on him at the start of the series.
We never got to saw when she started crushing on him, all we knew was that she liked him. So what does that mean? ZOMG, it happened before the series started. durka durka? And maybe when oh I dunno, when her brother said. "Ever since you started High School, all you ever talked about was Kurosaki" Maybe thats a good indication?

Quote:
You know, I find that I agree with you. You made me realize, she does lack faith in Ichigo. That is another reason they don't suit. He does not need a woman as emo he is. A person who doesn't have confidence in him. A person who cannot bring him out of his funk.
Orihime worries about Ichigo because she cares about him. It's natural to worry about someone when you care about them. It does'nt matter how strong you know them to be.

Hero Worship? Where does it come from?

When first asked about why she liked Ichigo. She could name nothing about him. Just she liked his "funny faces". Then the incident with her brother, Ichigo rescuing her-- Since she never forgot it. She tells Tatsuki that she thinks he's a secret hero. Tatsuki then began to tell her about this "Hero". When she drew her "future me" she envisioned herself as a a magical-girl-mecha-something. Look at the the things she wanted to do before she died. Astronaut & Teacher, have five different careers. All of that points to heroism If she met a guy who embodied that idea. You don't think she'd develp a really big crush on him?That's exactly what happend.
Re-read what you said and realize that you made absolutely no sense whatsoever. What she wants to do as careers have anything to do with Ichigo?

Quote:
Orihime has sworn "Five Lifetimes" of love. Yet, I have never heard her say why she loves Ichigo. Except for the "funny faces" she's really never said. All I have to go on is... Her feelings for him seem to grow after he rescued her. & While she was watching him save other people. Which brings me back to hero-worship. Because that is all that I have to go on. Since they don't have anything of substance, that occurred between them.
Quick question for you, is there ever a logical reason why you should love someone? Just think about it.

Quote:

Which is why I said she fell in love with him vicariously. She likes what she knows of the "Ichigo" in Tatsuki's memories. She does not know the real person. Instead of learning these things from Ichigo himself. Instead of learning sbout him, while she was forming a bond with him. She learns it from Tatsuki. Only her feelings are being developed. Instead Rukia and Ichigo form a bond. It is she, who learns of his pain over his mother's death. ( Straight from the horse's mouth)

That the basis of Ichigo and Orihime's relationship. She learns about him second hand. Only in HM arc has she ever witnessed or perhaps I should say shared a moment with Ichigo. The only thing they were few, and not really the kind that a love match develops from.
This is just retarded, and I shouldn't even bother responding to this. Ok, when you're interested in someone, and you just so happen to be best friends with someone who is friends with that person of your affection. Would you not ask him/her about this person? Its such a common thing to do that this shouldn't even been brought up.

Quote:

"overbearingly protective" protective is a stretch. He's "overbearingly protective" of Rukia. Still... he has been known to show concern over his fellow-man, Plus, or Chibi Arrancar.

Tatsuki is "overbearingly protective" of Orihime. So does mean they have shot at being canon? Doing a hero's job is not a good example of "couple material"

You don't have to be in-love with a person to show concern for them. You don't have to love a person to show concern for them. You don't even have to to know a person to show concern for them. You could meet a total stranger and be touched by their misfortune, and be genuinely concerned about them.

There are some people who have what we call "bleeding hearts". Ichigo happens to be one of them.
Maybe I didn't explain myself thoroughly or maybe you just ignore 75% of what I said. Either way, I'll reiterate.

Ichigo is protective of his friends? yes, theres no question about it. Does he see everyone as too weak that they need his protection? yes, most definately. Is he concerned about everyones feelings? that is a definate no. With no reason whatsoever, he's always concern for her feelings, sticking up for her, etc etc, look back at my other post for further detail. I'm getting a little irritated that I have to repeat what I said just recently, simply because you won't thoroughly read through what I was saying.
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Old 2009-01-12, 09:51   Link #1316
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
*facepalm* yes yes lets ignore what the conversation is really about. Ichigo's conversation with Ulq. wasn't about the others, it was about Inoue. And Inoue's conversation isn't about love its about whats giving her so much faith.
LOL. Yep because Ichigo doesn't really think that much to begin with. In SS he put saving Rukia on hold to fight Ganju. He needs to be reminded every few seconds because his memory has degenerated to the point where a goldfish is in fact a superior being.

Why do people always pick battles they can't win? I mean hakisak even tried to use the pilot to support IchiRuki. Word to the wise: focus on Ichigo and Rukia to support Ichigo and Rukia, and not Orihime Orihime Orihime.
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Old 2009-01-12, 16:52   Link #1317
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What happened with the IchiRuki shippers? They suddenly got a lot quieter. Did they fall asleep or something?
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Old 2009-01-12, 18:32   Link #1318
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What happened with the IchiRuki shippers? They suddenly got a lot quieter. Did they fall asleep or something?
I am here~♥ *audience claps* lol Ichigo Rukia never dieds out!! *muhhaaa* srry I am in a weird mood..
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Old 2009-01-12, 18:35   Link #1319
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What happened with the IchiRuki shippers? They suddenly got a lot quieter. Did they fall asleep or something?
They're all hanging out in the Bleach Moveie 3 thread...
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Old 2009-01-12, 19:44   Link #1320
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Ichigo is the type who wouldn't think about relationships unless someone takes the initiative or unless something dramatic enough to occur to force him to re-evaluate how he feels about them. And throughout HM, that's exactly whats occurring. The constant, "Is it because of her?" , "Are you simply just glad that she's safe?" It's all making him think.

Oh and Inoue has crushed on Ichigo for a long time, before the series has started. Tatsuki has always been giving her advice on how to get him, usually to rape him since that's the only way he'll know.

Inoue has no hero worship, I'm still trying to figure out where this is coming from. If she worshiped him as some hero, god, whatever, she wouldn't be angst'ing all the time over his safety, she'll believe that he'll whip out his genitals and bitch slap every opponent that comes his way. No, Inoue knows that he gets seriously hurt all the time, that he's not the strongest. That's why she strives to protect him, why she wants to get stronger so he doesn't have to get hurt anymore. This has been recurring since she got her powers.

Ichigo has always been overbearingly protective to Inoue. Standing up for her whenever someone yells at her or does something inappropriate with her. etc etc.. I'll make a repost on how Ichigo behaves around Inoue. To make this easier on myself *copies and pastes* And please be sure to read the comments carefully, I've seen quite a few replies from certain people who never took the time to read carefully.

Spoiler for space:
It k if its not updated i still totally agree w/ the evidece and such
lol your sarcasma is funny (in a good way)
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