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Old 2006-05-18, 16:18   Link #1021
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
okay.. wow, you are so missing the science fiction context ... ah well....
Keep Slaughterhouse Five and Hitchhiker's Guide in mind -- basically nothing is as it seems.

(the Haruhism is a running gag with the fandom --- don't get overly fixated on it .... unless of course, Suzumiya *is* a god....)

I've never read either of those, I kind of figured that there was something going on beneath what was immediately being presented in the show as I'm usually good with symbolism and the like. I'm mostly worried that I won't be provided with enough information to understand what exactly is happening as the show is moving a bit slowly around episode 3 and as far as I know there are only 14 episodes that will be produced.

I've seen to many ambitious projects start off like Haruhi and fall flat on there face by the end, Mai Hime, Mai Otome, Evangelion (Remember the budget crisis, it very well could happen here) and FLCL come to mind.

I'm assuming a lot of people here have read the source material and know how the show will end, I however have not so please excuse the ignorance as all I am able to see at this point is the wacky antics aspect of the show and the running gag that is associated with the show as a whole.
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Old 2006-05-18, 16:27   Link #1022
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Come on, loosen up. How are you suppose to enjoy a piece of entertainment if all you worry about is what you haven't seen yet?

Take it as it comes, and if you don't like it anymore, stop. You are not selling your first-born or anything, this is meant to be fun.
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Old 2006-05-18, 16:35   Link #1023
melange
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Putting the merits of Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu aside... succintly said if the combination of elements attract you then watch it, if it doesn't drumming at the fans of this show that you don't think it's that great isn't really going to change their minds, like I doubt they'll change yours...

This is both kinda off-topic and kinda on... I just started watching To Heart 2 recently and noticed that Sasamori Karin seems like a predecessor of Suzumiya Haruhi. Amongst her bag of tricks is: forced recruitment, (sexual) blackmail, UFO/occult nut, weird 'alien' markings on the school field (drawn by Ruuko tho), "must investigate!"...
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Last edited by melange; 2006-05-18 at 17:12.
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Old 2006-05-18, 16:44   Link #1024
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Actually, as we've mentioned before (in the Q&A posts)... the source material is in Japanese. This is an English forum. You'll find (potentially) less than five routine posters who have actually read the entire series of novels.

At the moment there are some very dedicated and kindhearted folks who are working on translating the Haruhi novels into English. You can find information on those novels in a thread in this subforum. The entire first volume has been translated, and that covers (in theory) the brunt of the dramatic elements on the show (ep1-6 IMO?, in whichever order they eventually end up being released).

It's also been said before... but the Haruhi show doesn't really seem to be written for everyone to enjoy. After all, the show bounces around an awfully lot. Ep1 featured the SOS-dan members starring in a short film that was a rather interesting parody of the countless bad student films that have been made over the years.

Ep2 opens, and the SOS-dan doesn't even exist. At the end of the second episode we don't even meet half the people who were shown in ep1. In fact, many of the character's you are introduced to don't show up until vastly later in the show. The weird episode order... It's discussed elsewhere in these forums, but the show doesn't exactly advance in a chronological order.

Further, the bounces aren't exactly spelled out to the viewer. You have to pay at least enough attention to watch the next episode previews and see the clever background clues KyoAni has sprinkled around.

You haven't seen any symbolism in the show because there isn't any symbolism in the show. There is something going on beneath the show, but as you watch you'll learn that ep1 presented most of it all very clearly. BTW... I don't consider the show saying "So and so is a xxx, oh yeah, she's also an xxx" to be much symbolism. They're pretty upfront about telling you what they are. That's all IMO, I've only read volume one of the novels. It's possible this light novel turns deadly serious somewhere down the road... but that seems awfully unlikely.

As for not being presented with enough information? The show follows the novels *very* faithfully... so an understanding of the novels (vol1 in particular) just means you'll be spoiled of the ending of the anime, nothing more.

Also... it isn't *only* 14 episodes are being produced... The show was initally slated for 14 episodes, and that's all that will be made. There were no mysterious Kanon-inspired budget cuts that forced a 26 episode show to be cut back to 14. That's all there ever was. KyoAni has shown they're perfectly adapt at releasing sequels (FMP is a prime example), so it's very likely we'll see a second season in a year or two that addresses the later volumes (vol4-8) would be my guess. That will hinge entirely upon how succesful the Haruhi anime is, of course.

As for the budget crisis potential? Mai-Hime, Mai-Otome and Eva were all longer than 13-14 episodes... It's not entirely rare for a 14 ep show to run out of cash... so it could certainly happen. Sadly we've already witnessed a slight downgrading in quality from the outstanding visuals in the first few episodes... but that's only to be expected. On the other hand, KyoAni has a very strong track record, and this show is probably the flagship of their quality releases. I'm willing to bet they're hinging quite a lot on this, and their Kanon version. Most likely both shows will pay off for KyoAni in spades, but only time will tell.

I'd refer people who are worried about this show ending poorly to Honey and Clover. This show appears to be following in the succesful footsteps of H&C by limiting themselves to materials that have already been produced. IMO, it *looks* like the final conclusion to the series will occur at the end of the first volume... and they'll likely use materials from volume 2, 3 and 4 to fill in the rest of the show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
To me it seems like the show is all about how weird and incredible this Haruhi girl is and how she will go on to do more wacky stuff that will confuse people in the show. It's been done before and although the show is doing it well, it isn't that fantastic in my opinion.
When you get a chance, I'm interested in seeing where you've this show done before. Sure, it's a non-romantic high school comedy slice-of-life show... but beyond that... Besides, she isn't doing wacky stuff to confuse people... she's doing them to keep herself entertained. It's a valid difference.

You don't have to love the show... you could hate it for all I care, I'm just tired of people throwing out stock "It's crap, I've seen it before" without actually being willing to back up where they've "seen it before". ^_^

Last edited by Adigard; 2006-05-18 at 16:56.
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Old 2006-05-18, 17:04   Link #1025
Vexx
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Adigard already hit my points about "symbolism" ---- nope... and nor is there much symbolism in Slaughterhouse or Hitchhiker ..... If you haven't read any Kurt Vonnegut and want to have a shred of claim to any knowledge of American literature, I'd suggest picking at least that novel up (its like having not read Mark Twain). Douglas Adams (Hitchhiker) may be more of an acquired taste as he relishes British absurdist humor but it has some compelling views on the way the universe works (or rather, doesn't work).

Suzumiya (the anime series) appears to be designed as a "gestahlt" exercise -- - you really have to watch the whole series and then the dots connect. Movies like "Fight Club" or "Minority Report" come to mind though they're not related content-wise. Another book example would be "The Sound and the Fury" by Faulkner which tells a story from several POV - starting with a very retarded boy's viewpoint.

If you aren't interested or having a Neo "whoa" moment by the end of episode 5, I'd say drop it and move on.

note: I haven't read the novels (outside of some of the translation work) or any other material. The initial hook for me was the wonderful parody of student movies in ep 1 (along with the "something is going on" with the SFX "bad/superlative" clues). Ep 2 caught me with the stellar animation and personality of Suzumiya and Kyon's dry sarcasm. Ep 4 is the first clue that "something is really up" besides a typical high school club scene headed by a wacky lady. Ep 5 is one of the best directed episodes of anything I've seen in a while in the way each character's exposition of their purpose is animated and filmed.

The little wacky girl in To Heart 2 is remindful of Suzumiya in her dreams, tactics, and views --- the difference is *she's just a sweet wacky little girl*.
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Old 2006-05-19, 09:59   Link #1026
Julius Firefocht
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
Okay lets try staying on topic here. I DO NOT see what all the hoopla about the show is about. It was interesting in the first episode with the parody of magical girl anime, but the second episode didn't wow me at all. To me it seems like the show is all about how weird and incredible this Haruhi girl is and how she will go on to do more wacky stuff that will confuse people in the show. It's been done before and although the show is doing it well, it isn't that fantastic in my opinion. I don't know what else to say, I can't say I worship the show, I definetely don't hate it, that's for sure, I just think it isn't as great as its been made out to be. I'm going to watch another episode and see were it leads, but I'm still not convinced about this Haruhism stuff . Perhaps we just have an intriguing show on our hands and not a religion.

Anyway I discussed the show and nothing else except perhaps its popularity If that's not on topic than I don't no what is.
Heretic! Burn him at the stake, in the name of Haruhi!
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Old 2006-05-19, 11:20   Link #1027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melange
Putting the merits of Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu aside... succintly said if the combination of elements attract you then watch it, if it doesn't drumming at the fans of this show that you don't think it's that great isn't really going to change their minds, like I doubt they'll change yours...

This is both kinda off-topic and kinda on... I just started watching To Heart 2 recently and noticed that Sasamori Karin seems like a predecessor of Suzumiya Haruhi. Amongst her bag of tricks is: forced recruitment, (sexual) blackmail, UFO/occult nut, weird 'alien' markings on the school field (drawn by Ruuko tho), "must investigate!"...
Haruhi is the more dynamic version of Karin, and the plus point is that Haruhi's antics literally make the world tick.

In TH2, Takaaki puts up with Karin's antics, Kyon actually knows how to make witty sarcastic comments time and again to enrich the mood.

For some shows, you either like them or you hate them, there really is no in between. We do not intend to convince the doubters that it's great, and neither are we obliged to. We're not some evil cult or anything.

At first, I thought "What's all the fuzz about Suzumiya Haruhi?" So I decided to have a go, and I decided I liked this, as simple as that. Or if I hate it, I would just think, "This is too complicated/silly/etc. I'm giving this a skip." Then I'll just leave it as that, instead of coming on and complain before they've even watched a single scene or read a single sentence of the novel.
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Old 2006-05-19, 11:45   Link #1028
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Doesn't matter really.

As long as people who like it are far MORE then the ones who don't like it,

I don't see any problem here.
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Old 2006-05-19, 11:51   Link #1029
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One of these days I swear I'm going to find a troll who claims
"This is just a lackluster show in a season full of crap, that's why you idiots like it"
- or -
"I've seen this thing before a dozen times, it's nothing new"

And get them to explain exactly what they mean by those two statements ^^

'cause honestly... anyone who honestly believes the current season of anime is full of crappy shows really needs to pick a new hobby... and while we've seen all the elements of this show elsewhere... What we don't see very often is this synergy of genuinely likable characters working together.

I really don't care if people love or loathe the show... but it's the illformed reasons some people like to litter around the forums that gets old.
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Old 2006-05-19, 13:18   Link #1030
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To be rude and mitigate by not pointing fingers, some people are uncomfortable with differing opinions or are insecure enough in their own beliefs that they must actively disrupt anyone who isn't in lockstep with them. Note I'm not saying people shouldn't challenge other viewpoints (pro or con) ... but that they should do so with some research under their belt and careful consideration.

"I don't like it or don't get it, therefore it *must* be lame" (pathetically insecure)
"so boring all been done before" (fails to understand nothing is new under the sun - its a question of is it entertainingly told)
"Since I like it, all differing views must be exterminated" (also pathetically insecure)

Anyone should be able to express their opinion, but should also expect to have to defend it or provide substantive examples to support it. A bit of darwinism for ideas.

I think Suzumiya is *SHAPING UP* to be a great series (they could still trainwreck) but I try to point to the specific aspects that make it so. So far the main "negative" I've found is that the show requires a sufficent attention span and attention to detail... some grounding in general science fiction concepts is useful and some experience with previous stories that involved "wishbringers".

The show owes some heritage to a brilliant nasty little Twilight Zone episode (from the original 1960s series) about a small boy whose thoughts became reality. Being a child (and therefore selfish and cruel), he had isolated a county from the universe and completely terrorized everyone in it. Bad thoughts got you remade and sent "to the cornfield". You can also trace story elements to any number of other tales - and there are some direct references to mythology and metaphysics in the show (let sleeping gods lie --- eh? F'tagn...)
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Old 2006-05-19, 14:32   Link #1031
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No, actually I like the show, just not as much as most people here. I also don't think Suzimiya is necessarily a bad person, just unaware of what she is doing. I hope this has a happy ending were everything gets put right.
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Old 2006-05-19, 15:43   Link #1032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
No, actually I like the show, just not as much as most people here. I also don't think Suzimiya is necessarily a bad person, just unaware of what she is doing. I hope this has a happy ending were everything gets put right.
Yea I know you would like the show, welcome to SOS dan, heres an expired cookie for you
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Old 2006-05-19, 16:03   Link #1033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
Yea I know you would like the show, welcome to SOS dan, heres an expired cookie for you
Dude.... That`s EVIL!
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Old 2006-05-19, 16:15   Link #1034
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Hey lol thats Haruhiism way to welcome someone, by offering expired food, we Haruhists are showing that we accept someone. Like how Haruhi likes Mikuru so much, that she offers her expired warabimochi.

I'm correct right?
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Old 2006-05-19, 16:19   Link #1035
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Well, not unless he force feeds it to him
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Old 2006-05-19, 17:10   Link #1036
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make him squeal like mikuru!

*hold up some expired ham*

eat! eat! eat!

Besides, none of us here wanted to be Haruhiist, we are all here against our will, being etorted is compulsary. blame Haruhi, she likes to drags us kicking and screaming.

*does a little mikuru scream for help*

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Old 2006-05-19, 23:07   Link #1037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
The show owes some heritage to a brilliant nasty little Twilight Zone episode (from the original 1960s series) about a small boy whose thoughts became reality. Being a child (and therefore selfish and cruel), he had isolated a county from the universe and completely terrorized everyone in it. Bad thoughts got you remade and sent "to the cornfield".
I'm sure more people will remember The Simpson's Treehouse of Terror episode that featured that same plot and, more than likely, was a tribute to that earlier Twilight Zone episode.
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Old 2006-05-20, 01:01   Link #1038
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I was just thinking about that episode of the simpsons tonight. So honestly what do people think, is she really a bad person at heart and would use her power to control and enslave people if she found out she could, or do you think she is really a good person who geniunely has no idea of the harm she's causing?
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Old 2006-05-20, 01:06   Link #1039
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
I was just thinking about that episode of the simpsons tonight. So honestly what do people think, is she really a bad person at heart and would use her power to control and enslave people if she found out she could, or do you think she is really a good person who geniunely has no idea of the harm she's causing?
It doesn't matter if she has good or bad intentions. It's the result that counts; which, ironically, is not related to her intentions or her moral character. What she might want to do and what she will end up doing are two separate things.

Horrible things might happen, or good things might happen. The fact that even Yuki's people couldn't calculate the end result, means the odds are not worth the risk.

Thus, since we can't be sure what the result will be, it's best to leave things the way they are unless the worst-case scenario was already upon us, by which point there would be nothing left to lose in opening the Pandora's Box.
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Old 2006-05-20, 02:12   Link #1040
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I think... AT THE MOMENT ... she's a really innocent person who genuinely has no idea of the ripples of her thoughts and actions.

As the three forces mostly agree -- better to observe and let events unfold than interfere for now. Quiet damage control and keep her diverted and entertained.

If she were really aware of her impact on the universe, it might actually cause her to go insane out of fear and then the universe would be screwed.
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