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Old 2007-05-10, 23:50   Link #101
bakavic
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@wao: That's wonderful news! Hopefully this is the first of many anime movies to be screened here; I believe we only had Ghibli movies shown in mainstream theaters before this? Interestingly, Gedo Senki is nowhere to be found (bad reviews?)

Also, NANA2 is (finally) going to released on the same day? I'm like completely in fanboy mode now man...now, if only they would announce that 5cm/s will be shown...sadly, I'm entering the army that day - but I'll make sure watching it is the first thing I'll do when I can get out.

I think a fair bit of credit can be given to the Death Note franchise - it has really shown the higher-ups in the cinema industry that there is a demand for jap (manga/anime-related) movies locally. It's like all of a sudden they're bringing in all the major titles for the past few months.

Ok, just looked further down the line, and there's Brave Story on 9th Aug, and Udon (haven't heard much about it) on 17th May.

@waffo: Garten from Memento has a present for you - http://www.designchronicle.com/memen...ko_garnet.html
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Old 2007-05-11, 21:09   Link #102
Codex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
The ending in particular was the killer for me...
Spoiler:
Actually, you may want to sit through the ending credits once more and keep an eye on the lyrics. Starting around 1:34:47,

Spoiler for Ending Theme Lyrics:
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Old 2007-05-11, 22:27   Link #103
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OMG!!! this anime so good
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-05-12, 02:11   Link #104
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It didn't win an Oscar but it did won an award in
Japan Media Arts Festival 2006 in the Animation category.
http://plaza.bunka.go.jp/english/fes...hin/index.html
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Old 2007-05-12, 06:05   Link #105
Mez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codex View Post
Actually, you may want to sit through the ending credits once more and keep an eye on the lyrics. Starting around 1:34:47,

Spoiler for Ending Theme Lyrics:
very nicely put, i like that interpretation, and it makes alot of sense with the lyrics. i thought the bittersweat ending fitted perfectly, as it matched the themes of the film, and i also thought there was enough closure given in the ending.

definitely think some people are unnecessarly over-analysing what he said at the end. i mean we were shown makoto's character pretty well throughout the movie and her reaction to his words weren't one of confusion or hesitation. she didn't ask any how, when or whys, because deep down she would have known it wasn't realistic, she was satisfied with his words and what he expressed with them. infact that entire ending scene was a huge build up of her anticipating him expressing his feelings to her, and when he had left without doing so she burst into tears. when he came back to whisper those words, she was finally satisfied and had no more regrets. the exact words which he used to express his feelings weren't important, nor should be the focus of attention, the film had already given closure and the words themselves are just an after thought, maybe they will meet in the future, maybe not, anythings possible, it was a flicker of hope saying anything is possible, but not to be taken with extreme seriousness.
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Old 2007-05-13, 18:14   Link #106
negativeone
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wow this is the first i watch an anime movie and i totally loved it. i was not expecting it to be this good and i was surprisse by the bittersweet ending, i never thought that the film would turn out the way it did. in my point of view the words chiaki said were symbolic, as well as the painting. makoto says that she will make sure chiaki sees the paiting in the future and chiaki says that he will be waiting for her(the paiting, which is her, get it???).

my english is bad and i think that im not making sense, so to put it in short, the way i see it is that the paiting is like a memento of their friendship and chiaki will be waiting for it.
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Old 2007-05-13, 19:10   Link #107
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Originally Posted by wao View Post
Also my copy of the DVD came in the mail today yay
Does the DVD have any subtitles (Japanese? English?)
I was looking at the Amazon page but couldn't tell, but the price was no more than I'd pay for an anime DVD in the shops here, so I was thinking I may as well order the original Japanese one.
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Old 2007-05-13, 19:11   Link #108
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Just saw this at a friend's behest. Overall, I am of the camp/faction/side that feels that the show was enjoyable, but not amazing/godly/stellar. B/B+.

The art was above average, the voice acting was fitting, character development was... mixed, the music was average to above average. The incidental details and the heroine's antiques was where the true charm of the show lay (the heroine's sisters to attempt to save her from suicide was very nice). However, the romance and sci-fi element failed to latch on to me, and as a result the impression the show made on me was not as deep as it made for some people (my friend included). I was compelled to go back and rewatch/listen to 5cm several times after the first time, but once was enough for Toki wo Kakeru Shoujo; that is absolutely not to say that one is better than the other, for this is one instance where I think preference has a great deal to do with enjoyment. (Mushishi and H&C, on the otherhand, seem to have achieved much greater consensus amongst its reviewers).

Didn't realize that Chiaki's last lines were a major sticking point until I read about other's opinions on the matter. I think it could've done better without; clean break, conveys a (not THE) theme of heart break as part of learning and growing up and moving on... others have interpreted it differently of course, and I respect that. A good way to view the resolution though, as a previous forumer has mentioned, would to think of the theme as along the lines of "Living life to the fullest, their feelings made known and thus no regrets..."

It all depends on whether Chiaki's line was interpreted literally or not; the above interpretation, which I like myself, precludes their meeting up in the future as a viable option: They've conveyed their feelings and our heroine is satisfied and free to move on.

Sounds like I'm talking myself into liking this show and its ending... but I suppose if any show deserves this benefit of the doubt (heh) its Toki wo Kakeru Shoujo.

Imma write some fanfic now, while I'm still on the mood. A three years later sort of story, with Kousuke and Makoto, now in university.
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Old 2007-05-13, 20:41   Link #109
wao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatarou View Post
Does the DVD have any subtitles (Japanese? English?)
I was looking at the Amazon page but couldn't tell, but the price was no more than I'd pay for an anime DVD in the shops here, so I was thinking I may as well order the original Japanese one.
Nope, no subtitles afaik (I can go check again when I'm back at home but I don't think there were even closed captions). Actually if there were English subititles you'd think roxfan wouldn't have had to go through the trouble of translating it

It's definitely a worthy buy though, and I'm so glad I got it (though ahem it was my brother who paid for it >_> <_<). Whereas if it was Byousoku 5cm I don't think I'd have gotten the DVD unless I had a gift voucher or oodles of money lying around...

Anime movies in general are so much easier to get than series though, it's just a one-time purchase and it's obviously so much cheaper...
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Old 2007-05-13, 20:47   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakavic View Post
@waffo: Garten from Memento has a present for you - http://www.designchronicle.com/memen...ko_garnet.html
Actually, that is the main theme of the movie. The song I'm talking about plays from before and during her last jump. I guess there's part of the lyrics in the movie but not all... ;_;
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Old 2007-05-14, 02:33   Link #111
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do you mean
hanako oku-kawaranai mono???
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Old 2007-05-15, 17:10   Link #112
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Yeah. Are there lyrics anywhere?
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Old 2007-05-15, 19:06   Link #113
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Italian version have lyrics
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Old 2007-05-16, 01:14   Link #114
kira-sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffo View Post
Yeah. Are there lyrics anywhere?
sorry i have already searched it but i don't find it
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Old 2007-05-16, 09:01   Link #115
gaguri
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A great movie.

If I had to sum it up in one sentence, a charming and heart-warming story of a girl who learns to run forward to her true feelings with honesty, without fearing uncertainties. I found it ironic that she was more confused about her feelings when she had ability to time leap and afraid of making wrong choices. She becomes obsessed with her desire of creating the most ideal and effective outcomes, such as trying to maintain friendship with Chiaki and matching Kousuke with a girl. Blinded by this obsession, she forgets herself. She forgets feelings of her and others. Only after nearly losing Kousuke and Chiaki she learns to learn to act in a way that is honest with her feelings. This might not produce an ideal situation in her mind, but accepting that there doesn't really exist a perfect situation anyway, she is content with the fact that it is at least a right way. She only needs to run forward in that feelings of hers, and the scene where she huffs and puffs endlessly in my opinion, highlights her development as a character.

The story however is a mixed bag. The movie did use the time leap element in a story to effectively develop Makoto's character, which I am touched by. Yet there are some plot holes the movie forgot to fill in properly, which greatly hurt the impact the very last scene had on me. Just some of my unanswered questions are,

-how did Chiaki freeze the time relative to himself and Makoto only? Well, this is not really my concern, because of this time freeze I enjoyed some really beautiful images of birds, water, things in motion still in life. I also enjoyed the heavy-hearted atmosphere between Chiaki and Makoto as a result, which served greatly as a part of character development, helped by soft diminishing piano playing in background.

-Where did Chiaki disappear to? He can't return to future, so he simply vanished by violating this rule? He explains that it's because of letting Makoto learn time leap, so why didn't he vanish the moment Makoto touch the nut? Maybe he vanishes sometime after he becomes aware of the fact that someone is using time leap, which would explain how he had to return to the future soon after Makoto told him everything at the very end. Still something that feels bit forced to me.

-My biggest problem is, Chiaki saying 'I'll be waiting for you in the future' to Makoto. I can't for the life of me, accept the notion that there is the slightest chance of Makoto seeing Chiaki in the future. Assuming Makoto is unable to use any time leap, and there won't be any time leap abilities for a long time to come, just how is Chiaki planning to see Makoto again. Wait for Makoto to be 80 years old when he's in a high school? Obvious answer is, having Chiaki charge his time leap and come back to Makoto's time again. This makes everything messy for me, because there's not much consequence in time leaps. You spam charge, refill them in the future, and spam them again. Not to mention the fact that if Chiaki chooses to return, Makoto will already be aware of time leap, so wouldn't he vanish as someone who violated the rule, or coming back and forth in time nullifies that rule?

Obviously the movie's focus was on slice-of-life aspect and developing Makoto as a character. To maintain that slice-of-life aspect, I understand that they avoided going into too much details of time leaping, which I think was wise. However, good writing in my opinion doesn't leave essential parts unexplained. It should be subtle and give us hints, and make us imagine future outcomes. In this case, lot of plot elements are unexplained and seems to me, they are forced as a means to develop Makoto as a character (which they did very well). As a result, that makes me question whether some key scenes really were meaningful, therefore taking away some of the values I had for the characters and the themes they displayed.

Overall, a great movie with one of the more memorable heroine in anime. Some problems with some plots being forced but that's because I'm a bit hard to please. If I had to give it a rating, it'd be 8 out of 10 (or somewhere between B+ and A-).
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Old 2007-05-16, 12:40   Link #116
roxfan
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You should rewatch it more carefully
Regarding frozen time, my guess is that the device is capable of more than simple leaps and Chiaki knows how to use those features unlike Makoto, who only learned it by trial and error. Or maybe the time stop didn't affect Makoto because she had been in contact with the device.
And Chiaki can return to the future. Makoto went back to before he used up his last charge for saving Kousuke, so he still has that charge.
As for his last words, read the last few pages, there've been a few theories proposed. Some of them could even be right
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Old 2007-05-16, 13:08   Link #117
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I've forsaken this thread for the longest time and didn't really read through it (sorry!), so this is mostly a reply to wao's comment somewhere in the beginning where she's commenting on Tokikake being last year's best film.

Personally, I can't decide whether this or Paprika is last year's best film. Certainly both are superior to Miyazaki's amateurish, though honest, creation, but there are certain qualities to Kon's work that appealed to me more that Hosoda's.

Since they are both based on Tsutsui's short stories, I felt like this was a valid comparison.

I felt like Tokikake was more human and coherent, while Paprika was more creative, better storyboarded, with better score and coloring. Certainly, Kon has a lot more experience and (forgive me, Hosoda fans) more talent in these things, but Hosoda's film also felt childishly fresh and happy. This is the same exact emotion I got from Goro's Earthsea movie plus the actual knowhow of how to make good stories (which Earthsea lacked).

I know I'm rambling here a bit, but Tokikake really felt like a newcomer's work, albeit a really-really talented one's with a great support team. A newcomer who isn't really burdened by conventions. With Kon's "Paprika" it was all about conventions. Kon was being Kon with a heavy dose of Cronenberg and Lynch. Tokikake felt like nothing else, it felt like a fresh take on how anime characters should behave, what their sensibilities and reactions should be.

So yeah, in my opinion, Paprika was a better produced and scripted movie when you put them toe to toe, but Tokikake was one of the best big debuts I've seen in a long-long while. And, anyway, anytime you seriously compare a relative unknown (Mamoru Hosoda) to an absolute grandmaster (Satoshi Kon), I feel like this is a compliment to the former. 8)
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Old 2007-05-16, 16:10   Link #118
Samatarou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
-how did Chiaki freeze the time relative to himself and Makoto only? Well, this is not really my concern, because of this time freeze I enjoyed some really beautiful images of birds, water, things in motion still in life.
As Roxfan said, it may be that he knows how to use the time manipulation ability properly, e.g. he may have jumped to some timeless limbo between the two timelines. But it could also just be an artistic device to give a stupendous backdrop to his revelations. In terms of the plot, it wouldn't really make any difference whether time is frozen or continued normally whilst they talked, so my own feeling is that it's just creative licence to make the film more beautiful.

Quote:
-Where did Chiaki disappear to? He can't return to future, so he simply vanished by violating this rule? He explains that it's because of letting Makoto learn time leap
I take it you mean when he disappears at the end of the time freeze. I think the reason he is leaving is that if people find out about the time leaping, he will end up being interrogated about the future and time travel and he must at all costs avoid such a thing which might have untold consequences. My assumption was that he was simply going to disappear in the regular manner - leave the country perhaps. It seemed he felt the risk of being caught too great even to wait one day to see the painting in case someone might already have cottoned on to who he was. It is a bit of a weak point though, since by disappearing he naturally draws attention to himself, and unless he plans to kill himself might actually make him more likely to be identified and hunted down.

Quote:
-My biggest problem is, Chiaki saying 'I'll be waiting for you in the future' to Makoto.
As per the previous discussions, this part of the conversation is probably just a metaphor for how they feel about each other. It's probably easier to talk like that on parting than to say "well, this is it, we'll never meet again"

Quote:
good writing in my opinion doesn't leave essential parts unexplained. It should be subtle and give us hints, and make us imagine future outcomes.
It's certainly not perfect from a logical point of view, but I think it's ok for a story to be evocative and not ulitimately make total sense. Lots of movies get away with huge plot holes, or characters defying the laws of physics in otherwise realistic stories. If there were to be a sequel, then the less than fully worked out story might be a problem, but I doubt there will be one, it feels like a one off. I think the story makes emotional sense even though aspects of it defy rationality.
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Old 2007-05-16, 19:49   Link #119
gaguri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rox
You should rewatch it more carefully
I know you mean no offence, but after carefully reading what has been said here, I still conclude that I've watched as carefully as anyone here, if not more careful than your average viewer. What I've mentioned in my first post still stands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rox
And Chiaki can return to the future. Makoto went back to before he used up his last charge for saving Kousuke, so he still has that charge.
I know that, I think you have misinterpreted me. I was talking about Chiaki who used up all his charge to save Makoto, Chiaki even says himself that he couldn't return to the future because of that. But at least with this I hope we now both know that we both know

Quote:
Originally Posted by rox
As for his last words, read the last few pages, there've been a few theories proposed. Some of them could even be right
Basically what they've said is what I've said; that the chance is very slim if not impossible. And someone mentioned this,
Quote:
However, the movie could have ended perfectly fine without Chiaki's last line and probably been better off for it.
and I think that is what I believe too. It could've ended perfectly with Makoto content with having enjoyed friendship with Chiaki and move on. Time waits for no one. It's another sign that she has developed as a character. To me, like the person I'm quoting have said, it is more of a girl coming to develop a new philosophy on living her life to the fullest than a love story. To end the movie like that with what I consider to be a delusional nonsense just to make it 'bittersweet', is another sign of weak writing. I can see lots of possibilities to make it feel bittersweet even without resorting to such an ending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samatarou
As per the previous discussions, this part of the conversation is probably just a metaphor for how they feel about each other. It's probably easier to talk like that on parting than to say "well, this is it, we'll never meet again"
I feel that their feelings are communicated even without such a metaphor. In other words, unnecessary except making majority of viewers feel good about the possibility of them meeting together. Which I think is slim, therefore stupid way to end. I don't necessary mean that they have end it in 'well that's it, cya later dude' way. There are always other ways and I believe with a team creative enough to produce such a great film, I am disappointed that they could not do better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samatarou
It's certainly not perfect from a logical point of view, but I think it's ok for a story to be evocative and not ulitimately make total sense.
That's why it didn't matter much, until the very ending. 'See you in the future' just didn't make too much sense to me. And reason for that is, haha, you can read it above...
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Old 2007-05-17, 00:55   Link #120
wao
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Originally Posted by MrProphet View Post
I've forsaken this thread for the longest time and didn't really read through it (sorry!), so this is mostly a reply to wao's comment somewhere in the beginning where she's commenting on Tokikake being last year's best film.

Personally, I can't decide whether this or Paprika is last year's best film. Certainly both are superior to Miyazaki's amateurish, though honest, creation, but there are certain qualities to Kon's work that appealed to me more that Hosoda's.

Since they are both based on Tsutsui's short stories, I felt like this was a valid comparison.

I felt like Tokikake was more human and coherent, while Paprika was more creative, better storyboarded, with better score and coloring. Certainly, Kon has a lot more experience and (forgive me, Hosoda fans) more talent in these things, but Hosoda's film also felt childishly fresh and happy. This is the same exact emotion I got from Goro's Earthsea movie plus the actual knowhow of how to make good stories (which Earthsea lacked).

I know I'm rambling here a bit, but Tokikake really felt like a newcomer's work, albeit a really-really talented one's with a great support team. A newcomer who isn't really burdened by conventions. With Kon's "Paprika" it was all about conventions. Kon was being Kon with a heavy dose of Cronenberg and Lynch. Tokikake felt like nothing else, it felt like a fresh take on how anime characters should behave, what their sensibilities and reactions should be.

So yeah, in my opinion, Paprika was a better produced and scripted movie when you put them toe to toe, but Tokikake was one of the best big debuts I've seen in a long-long while. And, anyway, anytime you seriously compare a relative unknown (Mamoru Hosoda) to an absolute grandmaster (Satoshi Kon), I feel like this is a compliment to the former. 8)
I still haven't watched Paprika (oh blasphemy), but I think one additional thing might be how Kon is experienced with working with Madhouse - IIRC this is Hosoda's first film at Madhouse (all this while he's been mostly a Toei person). And also, this isn't exactly based so much on Tsutsui's work since it's more like a continuation of his story (as I read elsewhere, a professional fanfic perhaps?). I think in Paprika's case it was an actual adaptation of the novel, wasn't it?

I guess that might have definitely factored into the amount of money and production support given to the film; after all Paprika's prelicensed and Kon is known even overseas but - if I am not mistaken - you tell some snobby anime critic "Hosoda" and chances are he'd go "What?" or "Oh, a One Piece movie director?" and brush him off...

I remember there was a lot of PR done by WEB Anime Style (setup an RSS feed, please!) as well as its editor Yuichiro Oguro when the movie first came out. I might be mistaken here but I think it was so much to the point that he sounded annoying to some people The parent company even published the storyboard for TokiKake (and now one of Hosoda's other well-remembered films, Digimon Adventure (Bokura no War Game) as well as episode 21 of the TV show).

This has been mentioned here before, but has anyone (other than roxfan and whoever else) watched that episode 40 of Ojamajo Doremi Dokka~n which was directed by Hosoda? I rewatched it not so long ago, and some of the visual similarities to TokiKake are interesting to watch, but it's an excellent episode in itself (I would never have thought a sparkly pink mahou shoujo show was capable of having such an episode).
I wonder if anyone has a good clean file of it because I might be interested in subtitling it so I can share it with more people... >_>
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