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Old 2005-12-27, 00:29   Link #101
DryFire
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that filter makes me think the guy who coded it or concieved it and thought it would be a good idea was on some pretty nice drugs.

As for filtering ffdshow and/or avisynth still seem to work for me.
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Old 2005-12-27, 00:31   Link #102
07ChanF
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Could it be that DirectShow on startup goes through EVERY (I mean every) DirectShow filter to get the priority of each filter, whilst ffdshow is decoding. This sort of rampant registry rifling is taxing on the system to say the least. Regmon log here Oh yes I will be hopping onto the ccp irc channel if someone tells me this is abnormal.
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Old 2005-12-27, 01:52   Link #103
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That reminds me of something we encountered during our first round of BSPlayer testing, when "advanced graph building" was off - the player would sit around loading and unloading different filters for about 10 seconds before deciding what to use and start decoding.

I'm not sure if this actually is abnormal or not - I need to consult the gurus first. I'll be back.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read

Last edited by TheFluff; 2005-12-27 at 02:14.
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Old 2005-12-27, 02:19   Link #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
As for VLC: It seems that Windows' process accounting is tricked by VLC in some way. Might have something to do with multi-threading... or maybe it's a rootkit, part of an Evil Plan to Take Over the World (tm).
So perhaps it's because his processor is using hyperthreading? And VLC takes advantage of this/hacks this? very interesting. In any case, it would explain the differences between the results without resorting to calling someone a lier.
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Old 2005-12-27, 03:21   Link #105
TheFluff
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Well, I don't seriously think LytHka would outright lie, especially not as stupid as that. Something IS weird. What exactly is under investigation...
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2005-12-27, 03:49   Link #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
AHAHAHA, MR FILM EFFECT IS BACK!
Ahem. We've had this flamew^H^H^H^H^H^Hdebate several times before, without any results. Mr. Film Effect likes his film effect and won't give it up (tm).
When you were psuedo-PWNing me you forgot to say "Mwuhahahaha...."

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Old 2005-12-27, 05:07   Link #107
jfs
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Well I can add that I managed to reproduce the magical "extremely low cpu usage" behaviour in VLC 0.8.4a. I'm on a dual Opteron 248 (2.2 ghz; I'm using purely 32 bit software); playback back standard definition H.264 video with a DShow player usually uses about 50-75% of one my of cpu's, leaving the other one alone. When testing with VLC, I did manage to see a little load on the CPU graphs, and it's obvious VLC has found some way to do multithreaded decoding. (The load looks quite balanced.) However, 3% CPU usage playing back H.264 video, that means you should be able to play it back on a Pentium 133 without MMX, which sounds absurd, right?

Another thing I managed to produce in VLC was strange GUI artifacts.

Spoiler for Extremely low CPU usage:

Spoiler for Strange GUI artifacts:
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Last edited by jfs; 2005-12-27 at 05:18.
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Old 2005-12-27, 06:15   Link #108
IMSabbel
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I definitively have to say that i also dont believe those benchmarks of vlc.

For simple reasons:

there is NO way in hell a h264 video is being decoded with 5-6% cpu time on any current cpu. The simple comparison in post 69 would mean that vlcs decoder is 6 times faster... thats just not possible.



i personally never experienced vlc to be much quicker... Maybe a bit less frame drops in borderline situations, but there were never any situations that a video that was unplayable with ffdshow became fluid in vlc...
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Old 2005-12-27, 06:22   Link #109
07ChanF
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I ran it again with the same file and a RegMon log (here) and regmon tells me that VLC only checks the audio devices and that's it.
My system specs are:
Athlon 2400+
Geforce 4 MX 128Mb AGP4x
Asus A7A266-E motherboard
Creative Audigy LS sound card

BTW: If it's a bug in Dshow you guys might have trouble locating it because there are multiple versions of DirectX floating around under the banner of 9.0c That's right people Microsoft released mutiple DirectX versions under the same name. Through the source says its only D3DX DLL set there could be a slight chance that they did a few bugfixes or interface changes. Source:here
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Old 2005-12-27, 07:25   Link #110
TheFluff
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Of course VLC doesn't go around checking the DirectShow filters, since it never uses them whatsoever. It has its own builtin decoders.
As for DirectX, tha is indeed a pain. However, we (CCCP playback help people) haven't seen any problems caused by any specific secret version of DirectX 9.0c - yet, at least.

wingdarkness: Er, well... sorry? ;P Well, sorry for the excessive evilness in that post. People DO have differening opinions about what looks good and what looks bad - it's just that yours differs from most other people's. Nevertheless, one shouldn't look down on minorities... Again, apologies.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2005-12-27, 08:00   Link #111
LytHka
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First of all, you guys are forgetting that we had a user in this thread claiming his MPlayer beats it all on his 733 MHz. Newest VLC crashed on him while seeking, MPC had a two second audio lag or something and crashed. I've ran into a few users on IRC too that were able to play things with VLC while couldn't with other playback solutions. Heck, I even tried it on the school computers (they're really slow) and got the same results. MPlayer not crashing like VLC is probably the result of its lower memory usage (lack of GUI) and possibly some other stuff I don't know about. This tells us that both VLC and MPlayer have capabilities of playing x264 encodes faster.

Yesterday however, we at F-B wanted to find out if maybe graphics card capabilities were using power to decode video, so we turned off hardware video acceleration. The results showed (from 5 PCs) that all players, MPC (with ffdshow, haali etc.) and VLC and MPlayer were dropping frames all over the place, as expected, and the CPU usage wasn't really different from previous results. So, while this may not be an issue at all, we can exclude the possibility that the graphics card has something to do with VLC decoding. I don't know about their drivers or directx though. We did get one weird result on one of the PCs and that was MPC playback without dropping frames for 20 seconds, then it crashed.
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Old 2005-12-27, 08:27   Link #112
TheFluff
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I'm not claiming that VLC isn't faster - I'm saying that it's not SIGNIFICANTLY so, at least not for H.264. If the computer is borderline, switching players might help, but the there isn't much gain to be had. I can't explain the values I got for XviD decoding on my own computer, though... As for MPlayer, I've long preferred it to VLC for several reasons, the speed being one.

Still, there IS something wrong with VLC and process accounting. My results for XviD are at least plausible, but some of the other things I've seen in this threads are just physically impossible.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2005-12-27, 16:11   Link #113
jfs
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I have made a post on the official VLC forum about the unrealistically low CPU usage.
http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?p=47114#47114
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Old 2005-12-27, 19:48   Link #114
IMSabbel
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just a moment?
Were those benches on quat core system with "seperate cpu time graphs" disabled?
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Old 2005-12-28, 01:45   Link #115
DryFire
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It seems like DB has decided that all future releases will be 75 mb h.264 files. Personally I'd prefer 87mb since it would allow higher quality audio/video and 52 episodes per dvd.

I downloaded the episode and it was watchable. Video quality was as expected as I had played around with an older bleach raw near those bitrates not too long ago. Blocking isn't too bad though a fair amount of detail seems to have been lost; I don't have the raw to look at (maybe it was filtered out?).

It looks as good as (better then?) some 175mb xvid releases I've seen, at least in some parts. Though that my just be my sleepyness getting to me. However, the 64kbps audio doesn't sound all that great.
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Old 2005-12-28, 01:54   Link #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DryFire
It seems like DB has decided that all future releases will be 75 mb h.264 files. Personally I'd prefer 87mb since it would allow higher quality audio/video and 52 episodes per dvd.

I downloaded the episode and it was watchable. Video quality was as expected as I had played around with an older bleach raw near those bitrates not too long ago. Blocking isn't too bad though a fair amount of detail seems to have been lost; I don't have the raw to look at (maybe it was filtered out?).

It looks as good as (better then?) some 175mb xvid releases I've seen, at least in some parts. Though that my just be my sleepyness getting to me. However, the 64kbps audio doesn't sound all that great.
Well, when you think about it, the super small filesize for DB makes a lot of sense.
They focus on high demand, gimme gimme gimme type shows, with emphasis on speed. (I won't call them a speed subbing group per se, that has too many bad connotations, but their purpose is clear). Just think of the amount of bandwith this saves them... 50,000 downloads*80 MB of savings per file = 4 TB per release less bandwith.

Though I do agree about the 64 Kbp/s audio.... I really start getting annoyed at anything less than 96 Kb/s he-AAC (and I prefer 112 or above). But at that filesize, it's appropriate.
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Old 2005-12-28, 03:17   Link #117
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It's times like these I wish I knew more on this topic...

So that means that we might see a trend on fansubbing groups shifting towards the h264 encoding. Though some groups offer both Xvid and h264, such as, lately, DB as well as Arenei...
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Last edited by Itachikun; 2011-02-15 at 07:50.
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Old 2005-12-28, 03:33   Link #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itachikun
It's times like these I wish I knew more on this topic...

So that means that we might see a trend on fansubbing groups shifting towards the h264 encoding. Though some groups offer both Xvid and h264, such as, lately, DB as well as Arenei...
The only reason we offer two versions of Pretty cure is because the project began using xvid, and I don't like switching formats in the middle of a particular show (if you can play episode 1, you should be able to play episode 49). any new series (like sugar sugar rune or ginban) will only be released in h264.
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Old 2005-12-28, 03:58   Link #119
Tiberium Wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draneor
Sorry, I don't know the version and I can't seem to figure out how to find it either. I do know that I installed it back on August 02, 2005, if that helps at all. Considering it was rather old, you're probably right about the reason it crashed and I should have thought of that. Anyway, I updated Mplayer and here's the result:


Mplayer Latest Version: Works fine. CPU usage of 95-98%.

It seems that watching H.264 encodes is no longer impossible for those of us with P-IIIs. I haven't tested CCCP or the latest version of Ffdshow, but I do now know that both the latest Mplayer and VLC work for me, whereas five months ago nothing worked.
OMG... u can actually play h264 without probs in that system?

Anyway, back again...

the mkv with h264 I tested was Starship Operators from **********.

With CCCP it simply need too much cpu that I can only watch it with maximazed screen. Full screen chokes almost all the time. You can feel the heaviness just when you do alt+enter to go to full screen. It takes a lot of seconds to go there. And it's not watchable coz the sound is desyncronized.

I then downloaded k-lite mega codec pack and installed it with the same configs in the ffdshow as in the CCCP. It doesn't choke anymore... plays just fine. Still eats more cpu than xvid but playable in the athlon xp 2200 + 768 RAM + GF4 MX.

Just in case it was something in the OS I used by other XP installed... a clean one where I use it only to watch anime and do encodes. Almost not much installed and it had the same results.

Hmmm... should have used that example above? I got other examples I used... but they are hentai... hehehe...



Oh BTW, it's not that I hate the codec(in the previous post)... I just hate softsubs and so MKV and other containers.
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Old 2005-12-28, 04:42   Link #120
LytHka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf
With CCCP it simply need too much cpu that I can only watch it with maximazed screen. Full screen chokes almost all the time. You can feel the heaviness just when you do alt+enter to go to full screen. It takes a lot of seconds to go there. And it's not watchable coz the sound is desyncronized.
The sound could be desynchronized because of ffdshow audio filters. I know for a fact that the AC3, LPCM (for DVD), Vorbis filters in ffdshow have a hard time ensuring stable, "skipless" audio playback on slower PCs, in my case it was the harddrive's fault. So I use the "core" audio codecs (CoreVorbis, AC3filter) on that particular drive so that the audio doesn't skip with "special encodes." Surprisingly, ffdshow's AAC audio filter seems to work out fine for me.
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