AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Bleach

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2005-12-19, 02:59   Link #1
Animizzle
Cool as a Cucumber
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holland
Notes about Bankai

MrHahn seems to have registered after january 2005, so when(or if) he comes back he can re-post this if prefered. In the meanwhile I think we should keep his fine post stickied.

Originally posted by MrHahn:

It has really gotten on by nerves slightly that people constantly ask questions along the lines of 'was that a bankai' (levels of disappointment over how pathetic the 'bankai' may be and correctness of spelling and grammar may vary greatly).

So I'll write out a series of notes about what sets Bankai apart from the rest of the rubbish.

1) The golden rule:
The first time we see the Bankai, the character will *always* 100% of the time before or during the charge up of the Bankai say the line 'bankai'. Even Tousen (who's Suzumushi is a bit of an oddball in terms of releases) says bankai beforehand.

2)The zanpakuto will change form into something which will stay until the owner wishes it to go away or can't sustain it
Self explanatory. BK has a massive cloud of blades which stays as a cloud of blades until he says reform. Renji has that snake whip which stayed until he nearly died. Konamura's warrior must have been unsummoned if he was to get out of there without destroying that general area etc.

3)The name of the Bankai is an extension of the normal name
e.g. Zabimaru-> Hihou Zabimaru
or
Senponzakura -> Senponzakura Kageyoshi
or
Tengen -> Kokujou Tengen Myou-oh

Important note: if a bankai is multi tiered (has multiple abilities associated with it) then the extended name gets an extension when a different tier is used. (Any examples will be a spoiler)

4)The Bankai 95% of the time creates something that either disrupts the terrain, or something that changes the appearance of the character:
When Byakuya uses Bankai the background goes all dark, but I think that's for effect. A better example is say Tousen's Suzumishi Tsuishiki Enma Kourogi. As for the other type (which is rarer) Hihou Zabimaru gives Renji a fur mantle and a baboon skull on his arm.

5)The at least for the first time we see it, the character usually does something that is nothing like any physical attack:
Tousen's crossguard's ring expands to a ginourmous size, Byakuya drops his sword into the ground, Renji holds his sword in a drawing pose in front of him, Ichigo... well that's a spoiler.

6)If the ability creates a separate entity, it's most probably a Bankai
Konjiki Ashogi Jizou (12th squad capt) has a centipede that can move by Mayuri's will. Kokujou Tengen Myuo-oh is a huge armour laden warrior that seems to mirror Konamura's movements. This is not so much as a definite identifier as a note. Not all Bankai's are separate entities.

Important note: Hitsugaya Toshirou's Shikai seems to create an ice dragon, but that's merely a by product of Hitsugaya's reiatsu from his Shikai freezing moisture in the air.


Kurosaki Ichigo
Abilities: Compact form allows high speed
Spoiler:

Kuchiki Byakuya
Abilities: Incredible amount of swords nearly impossible to escape from
Spoiler:

Tousen Kaname
Abilities: Alternate space where all senses are disabled
Spoiler:

Komamura Sajin
Abilities: Unknown, though probably it's forte is bad ass strength. Picture implies it copies Komamura's movements.
Spoiler:

Hitsugaya Toushirou
Abilities: Freezes opponent/surroundings
Spoiler:

Abarai Renji
Abilities: Can extend at will
Spoiler:

Kurotsuchi Mayuri
Abilities: Poisonous attacks
Spoiler:

Apologies for the dreadful quality of the pictures. Pictures hosted by www.imageshack.org
__________________
hm....

Last edited by Animizzle; 2005-12-31 at 09:07. Reason: Added pictures
Animizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-23, 02:28   Link #2
Ichimaru
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
The special ability what the bankai does is important, but what i think that is more important then its special abilities is wiether the bankai weapon is short range or long rang weapon.

A good example is renjis bankai, which is more suited for long range attacks, but when the enemy gets up close to him he has no defense and gets pwnage like in the fight against kuchiki.
Ichimaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-25, 10:57   Link #3
Animizzle
Cool as a Cucumber
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holland
Because it seemed like fun, I decided to add pictures of all the known Bankai up untill now. If I forgot anything, or made a mistake, please PM me, and don't post about it here.
__________________
hm....
Animizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-25, 21:20   Link #4
KaneDragon
*(RAWR*)&rawr
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: middle of nowhere, Virginia
Age: 28
That was my suggestion... Bankais are manifestations of soul slayers. It's certainly an unusual (and very much separate) form and follows Rule 6, if not the Golden Rule. Does the manga have an answer?
KaneDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-25, 22:49   Link #5
Dark`
The Terror of Death
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Land of igloos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animizzle
1) The golden rule:
The first time we see the Bankai, the character will *always* 100% of the time before or during the charge up of the Bankai say the line 'bankai'. Even Tousen (who's Suzumushi is a bit of an oddball in terms of releases) says bankai beforehand.
I'm just going by translations...so I could very well be wrong, but in the manga, there was no mention of the word(s) "Bankai" when Tousen released his Zanpakutou. It was there in the anime...but not in my translation of the manga. I'll ask my friends about it...but it seems weird that the translators would leave that out if it was there in the first place.

As for Captain Unohana...there has been no definite answer on whether that was Shikai or Bankai. The manga, up to the current chapter of 209, does not give any more information on Bankai than what was shown in the anime up to the current episode of 62. So far, it does seem like any kind of manifestations by a Zanpakutou have been caused by Bankai, so it seems like a reasonable note to abide by, but there are still [a minimum of] 4 Bankais that we haven't seen yet: Yamamoto Genryuusai, Soi Fong, Kyouraku Shunsui and Ukitake Jyuushiro (5 if we include Unohana Retsu...since we don't know if that is her Shikai or Bankai).
__________________
[14:22] <~lucifer> Dark` has to stay around to QC Genshiken s2
[14:22] <~lucifer> since you guys won't
[14:22] <~lucifer> So he gets the blessing of "Least Faggoty".
[14:22] <@Dark`> =D
[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
[14:22] <~lucifer> (Read: Canada's getting blown up.)
Dark` is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-25, 23:06   Link #6
Thewanderer
Hiyori Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Age: 33
Send a message via MSN to Thewanderer Send a message via Yahoo to Thewanderer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark`
I'm just going by translations...so I could very well be wrong, but in the manga, there was no mention of the word(s) "Bankai" when Tousen released his Zanpakutou. It was there in the anime...but not in my translation of the manga. I'll ask my friends about it...but it seems weird that the translators would leave that out if it was there in the first place.

As for Captain Unohana...there has been no definite answer on whether that was Shikai or Bankai. The manga, up to the current chapter of 209, does not give any more information on Bankai than what was shown in the anime up to the current episode of 62. So far, it does seem like any kind of manifestations by a Zanpakutou have been caused by Bankai, so it seems like a reasonable note to abide by, but there are still [a minimum of] 4 Bankais that we haven't seen yet: Yamamoto Genryuusai, Soi Fong, Kyouraku Shunsui and Ukitake Jyuushiro (5 if we include Unohana Retsu...since we don't know if that is her Shikai or Bankai).
Gin's too...
__________________
Thewanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-25, 23:31   Link #7
Dark`
The Terror of Death
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Land of igloos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
Gin's too...
I said minimum of 4. I opted not to include Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke in that list because, technically speaking, they aren't Captains anymore, and I was referring to only Captains at that point.

But yes, you are correct, we have yet to see what Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke's Bankais are.

Spoiler for Manga spoilers, don't click if you don't want spoilers:
__________________
[14:22] <~lucifer> Dark` has to stay around to QC Genshiken s2
[14:22] <~lucifer> since you guys won't
[14:22] <~lucifer> So he gets the blessing of "Least Faggoty".
[14:22] <@Dark`> =D
[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
[14:22] <~lucifer> (Read: Canada's getting blown up.)
Dark` is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-25, 23:51   Link #8
Thewanderer
Hiyori Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Age: 33
Send a message via MSN to Thewanderer Send a message via Yahoo to Thewanderer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark`
I said minimum of 4. I opted not to include Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke in that list because, technically speaking, they aren't Captains anymore, and I was referring to only Captains at that point.

But yes, you are correct, we have yet to see what Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke's Bankais are.
Okay, my bad
__________________
Thewanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-26, 00:18   Link #9
Arti
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark`
I said minimum of 4. I opted not to include Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke in that list because, technically speaking, they aren't Captains anymore, and I was referring to only Captains at that point.

But yes, you are correct, we have yet to see what Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke's Bankais are.

Spoiler for Manga spoilers, don't click if you don't want spoilers:
Not to mention Urahara and possibly Yoruichi.
Arti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-26, 00:50   Link #10
Dark`
The Terror of Death
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Land of igloos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ueap
I'm quite sure that Tousen said "Ban Kai" in manga.
He might very well have...it's just that in the translations I got...he didn't. That's why I was never adamant that it was a mistake, but rather that from my experience, he didn't say it in the manga. Of course, I don't know how to read Japanese myself, otherwise I'd check the raw to make sure.

Edit: Nevermind, you're probably right. I just noticed that my scanlations are missing a page from that chapter...Tousen probably said Bankai in that page...ugh. So sorry, disregard my previous comment about Tousen not saying Bankai.
__________________
[14:22] <~lucifer> Dark` has to stay around to QC Genshiken s2
[14:22] <~lucifer> since you guys won't
[14:22] <~lucifer> So he gets the blessing of "Least Faggoty".
[14:22] <@Dark`> =D
[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
[14:22] <~lucifer> (Read: Canada's getting blown up.)
Dark` is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-29, 21:35   Link #11
CLockw0rk
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Just curious are u sure that, that is Unohanas bankaki?
CLockw0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-29, 22:45   Link #12
Altharion
Pirate A
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: n0rw4y
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to Altharion
i am quite certain that is unohana's shikai and not bankai.
Altharion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-30, 00:30   Link #13
Starks
I see what you did there!
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to Starks
Minatzuki = Shikai
__________________
Starks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-31, 09:16   Link #14
Animizzle
Cool as a Cucumber
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holland
Due to reasonable arguments I removed Unohana's "bankai".

Personally I believe it's quite plausible that thing is her bankai. After all, (correct me if im wrong) we haven't seen any Shikai that manifested a seperate entity. Bankai's on the other hand do...
An no I don't think the mere manifestation of her Zanpaktuo the abilities that we saw. (I.e. the manifestation of Zangetsu or Renji's soul slayer.)

Anyway, until solid proof is ours, I'll leave it at this.
__________________
hm....
Animizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-31, 12:00   Link #15
Dark`
The Terror of Death
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Land of igloos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animizzle
Due to reasonable arguments I removed Unohana's "bankai".

Personally I believe it's quite plausible that thing is her bankai. After all, (correct me if im wrong) we haven't seen any Shikai that manifested a seperate entity. Bankai's on the other hand do...
An no I don't think the mere manifestation of her Zanpaktuo the abilities that we saw. (I.e. the manifestation of Zangetsu or Renji's soul slayer.)

Anyway, until solid proof is ours, I'll leave it at this.
True...but remember the Golden Rule:

Quote:
1) The golden rule:
The first time we see the Bankai, the character will *always* 100% of the time before or during the charge up of the Bankai say the line 'bankai'. Even Tousen (who's Suzumushi is a bit of an oddball in terms of releases) says bankai beforehand.
Granted, Unohana had already released Minatzuki when we saw her next...but according to the Golden Rule, it shouldn't be her Bankai. Not saying it isn't beyond a shadow of a doubt, but it conflicts with the rule nonetheless. My theory is that in her attempt to save Hitsugaya and Hinamori from what Aizen did, she was going to use her Bankai (extreme healing! =p), but they didn't want to reveal it yet and so they kept the view on Isane. That's my theory anyways...could very well be wrong.
__________________
[14:22] <~lucifer> Dark` has to stay around to QC Genshiken s2
[14:22] <~lucifer> since you guys won't
[14:22] <~lucifer> So he gets the blessing of "Least Faggoty".
[14:22] <@Dark`> =D
[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
[14:22] <~lucifer> (Read: Canada's getting blown up.)
Dark` is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-31, 12:22   Link #16
Souryu
nothing at all...
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 28
I think that Minatzuki is a shikai because... its name is composed of only one word. Think with me:

Ichigo's Shikai: Zangetsu --> Ichigo's Bankai: Tensa Zangetsu
Renji's Shikai: Zabimaru --> Renji's Bankai: Hiho Zabimaru.

All of the bankais up to now have two or more words on their names. And, if Minatzuki is really a bankai... what would be its shikai's name? Mina? Tzuki? Way lame LoL.
Souryu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-31, 12:32   Link #17
rukia82
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I think is a bankai because only bankais are a seperate entity!

@Souryu: Renji's Shikai is "Hoero ZUbimaru"
Byakuya's SHikai is "Chire senbonzakura"
Hinamori, Kira and others have Shikais with two names!
__________________

Currently watching Bleach, Naruto, School rumble second term, fate stay night, Death note
rukia82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-31, 12:45   Link #18
Dark`
The Terror of Death
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Land of igloos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavia_posy
@Souryu: Renji's Shikai is "Hoero ZUbimaru"
Byakuya's SHikai is "Chire senbonzakura"
Hinamori, Kira and others have Shikais with two names!
Hoero, Zabimaru more or less means Howl, Zabimaru

Chire, Senbonzakura more or less means Scatter, Senbonzakura

That's actually less of two names and more of a "keyword" or "catch phrase" they use upon releasing their Zanpakutous. It also relates (somewhat) to the nature of what their Zanpakutou does as well (ie - Byakuya's Zanpakutou becomes thousands of tiny blades that "scatter"). I'm not quite sure how often this applies as I don't remember all the Zanpakutou release phrases...but it seems like there would be a number of them that relate, otherwise I probably wouldn't have gotten this impression. I could be wrong though.
__________________
[14:22] <~lucifer> Dark` has to stay around to QC Genshiken s2
[14:22] <~lucifer> since you guys won't
[14:22] <~lucifer> So he gets the blessing of "Least Faggoty".
[14:22] <@Dark`> =D
[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
[14:22] <~lucifer> (Read: Canada's getting blown up.)
Dark` is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-31, 13:00   Link #19
MrHahn
Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 25
Send a message via MSN to MrHahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark`
Hoero, Zabimaru more or less means Howl, Zabimaru

Chire, Senbonzakura more or less means Scatter, Senbonzakura

That's actually less of two names and more of a "keyword" or "catch phrase" they use upon releasing their Zanpakutous. It also relates (somewhat) to the nature of what their Zanpakutou does as well (ie - Byakuya's Zanpakutou becomes thousands of tiny blades that "scatter"). I'm not quite sure how often this applies as I don't remember all the Zanpakutou release phrases...but it seems like there would be a number of them that relate, otherwise I probably wouldn't have gotten this impression. I could be wrong though.
The trip phrases for Shikai do relate to what they do.

Gin:
Ikoroso, Shinsou: Shoot to kill, Shinsou
Shinsou shoots towards the enemy with every intent to kill. >.> <.<

Tousen:
Nake Suzumushi: Sing Suzumushi
Ringing noise KOs people

Histugaya:
(Forgotten the Jap phrase): Sit on the frosted heavens, Gyurenmaru
Freezes stuff

Kira:
(Again, trip phrase has been forgotten): Raise your head/show your face
Just watch the animation.

As for Unohona, we have no clue as to what it may be. It seems to be a separate entity, suggesting it's a bankai, but we don't actually hear her say the trip phrase for Minazuki, so we just assume it's an oddball Shikai
MrHahn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2005-12-31, 19:16   Link #20
Dark`
The Terror of Death
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Land of igloos
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One
IMHO it's neither the Shikai, nor the Bankai, but instead just the materialization... like Zangetsu is the old man, and Zabimaru is this monkey.

I think we already discussed this a lot, before the forum was hacked.
However, I can argue that besides for when Ichigo was trying to achieve Bankai, Zangetsu was never physically materialized in this world. He was "there", but only Ichigo could see him. I doubt he could physically interact with the world around him either. I suspect, the same thing goes for Zabimaru. Again, this is a theory, and I'm in no way trying to pass this off as fact.

However, Minatsuki is obviously a materialization of a physical being. Unohana and Isane were riding on top of it, it held people inside of its belly and when it landed, it's feet/claws tore up the ground a little. I mean, we can't say for sure that Zangetsu and Zabimaru could not interact with the world around them, but the fact remains that Zangetsu "walked" right past Kenpachi without him knowing a thing. That materialization of Zangetsu, and of Zabimaru, seems to be an indication that the Shinigami who own them (them being the Zanpakutou) possess enough strength/spiritual power/whatever to achieve Bankai. That was what my impression of Zabimaru and Zangetsu appearing meant. Again, this is my theory, nothing more, nothing less.

Edit Add-On: I forget to mention that when Unohana recalled Minatsuki, it turned into something like a mist and drifted towards Unohana's sheath, before returning to the form of a Zanpakutou. If you recall when Zangetsu and Zabimaru materialized in the world, their physical Zanpakutous were still present while their representative appearances (old man and baboon) were there too. That...was hard to grasp. Okay...to put it easier...

Minatsuki = When it was around, Unohana's Zanpakutou wasn't
Zangetsu/Zabimaru = When they were around, Ichigo and Renji's Zanpakutous were still there

That leaves me to believe that Minatsuki is, at the very least, a Shikai. But that's just me. =p
__________________
[14:22] <~lucifer> Dark` has to stay around to QC Genshiken s2
[14:22] <~lucifer> since you guys won't
[14:22] <~lucifer> So he gets the blessing of "Least Faggoty".
[14:22] <@Dark`> =D
[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
[14:22] <~lucifer> (Read: Canada's getting blown up.)

Last edited by Dark`; 2005-12-31 at 19:59.
Dark` is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.