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Old 2011-05-24, 20:59   Link #4901
Konakaga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
imo making you kid into some sort of social experiment should count as child abuse.
I disagree that counts as "abuse", as I don't see how not forcing a child into society's pointless at best gender roles and limitations could be called abuse;, in fact I'd argue the exact opposite that the thousands of parents who force their children in gender roles is much closer to abuse than this.
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Old 2011-05-24, 21:12   Link #4902
Ithekro
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Considering the only way to do that is to isolate a child from all social contact and either not cloth them, or to get a generically nuetral clothes, colors, toys, as possible for the very early years (or spend double and get both types and hope the child can actualy choose something on its own). This would be difficult since as parents they need to cloth the child for warmth and the like..unless they plan to never leave their home for two years.

And that's not even gender roles...that's gender identification (as in what one identifies ones self as). It starts really early.
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Old 2011-05-24, 21:23   Link #4903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Considering the only way to do that is to isolate a child from all social contact and either not cloth them, or to get a generically nuetral clothes, colors, toys, as possible for the very early years (or spend double and get both types and hope the child can actualy choose something on its own). This would be difficult since as parents they need to cloth the child for warmth and the like..unless they plan to never leave their home for two years.

And that's not even gender roles...that's gender identification (as in what one identifies ones self as). It starts really early.
Quote:
“In fact, in not telling the gender of my precious baby, I am saying to the world, ‘Please can you just let Storm discover for him/herself what s (he) wants to be?!
Quote:
Jazz and Kio have picked out their own clothes in the boys and girls sections of stores since they were 18 months old. Just this week, Jazz unearthed a pink dress at Value Village, which he loves because it “really poofs out at the bottom. It feels so nice.” The boys decide whether to cut their hair or let it grow.
So not so much gender neutral everything as letting the child decide themselves rather than forcing one or the other on them[blue/girl crap, toys, or etc which enforces gender roles] so yes they're willing to spend for it I guess .
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Old 2011-05-24, 21:31   Link #4904
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Whether the person be a girl, guy, gay, lesbian, ladyboy, hermaphrodites, I think it is still best to treat the person as a human and judge as per character.

I am put off by BL fangirls and gays IRL, but something tells me that I should accept them as who they are and treat them as just another human being (politically correct term is "normal person'), I guess it has got to do with our growing up experiences and who we interact with throughout our lives.
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Old 2011-05-24, 21:31   Link #4905
judasmartel
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I'm not sure if it's really silly, but anyone else notices WTF is wrong with an 18-lane highway that's accident-prone? Do we Filipinos lack discipline, people of the world? It's so unfair for the highway to be called a "bloody highway"!

Spoiler for Translation:


http://story.philippinetimes.com/ind...1/id/45601591/

I hope this could make federal prisoners kick at the wall after reading this. A VIP prisoner checking in at the so-called "Bilibid Hilton Hotel".

Last edited by judasmartel; 2011-05-24 at 22:13.
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Old 2011-05-24, 23:50   Link #4906
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Maybe the baby is actually intersex and the parents wanted to let the baby decide for itself.
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Old 2011-05-25, 00:53   Link #4907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
I disagree that counts as "abuse", as I don't see how not forcing a child into society's pointless at best gender roles and limitations could be called abuse;, in fact I'd argue the exact opposite that the thousands of parents who force their children in gender roles is much closer to abuse than this.
how is telling your kid what gender he/she is forcing a child into pointless gender roles? I am not saying they force any kind gender role on the kid but whats the point of withholding the kids gender until he/she decide what he/she is. Your gender/sexual orientation is 100% genetics/nature no nurturing of any kind is going to change it. This is nothing more then the parents on a ego trip.
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Old 2011-05-25, 01:12   Link #4908
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I don't think they're trying to hide the kid's own crotch from him/herself... They just aren't telling other people.

And if people weren't ready to experiment with child rearing, wouldn't we still consider beating kids black and blue a great teaching aid?
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Old 2011-05-25, 01:15   Link #4909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't think they're trying to hide the kid's own crotch from him/herself... They just aren't telling other people.

And if people weren't ready to experiment with child rearing, wouldn't we still consider beating kids black and blue a great teaching aid?
and the last time i heard of a experiment regarding child rearing and gender the kid ended up killing himself.
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Old 2011-05-25, 01:19   Link #4910
Konakaga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
how is telling your kid what gender he/she is forcing a child into pointless gender roles? I am not saying they force any kind gender role on the kid but whats the point of withholding the kids gender until he/she decide what he/she is. Your gender/sexual orientation is 100% genetics/nature no nurturing of any kind is going to change it. This is nothing more then the parents on a ego trip.
Because some people would treat their child different if they knew the gender, which is the reason something like this that shouldn't be a big deal, is becoming one, since other people in society are far to eager to push those gender roles on anyone.

From a psychology view it's creates a far more accepting environment for the child than telling anyone and everyone[in the child] in the case of them you know not identifying with their "birth gender" than telling them does, because telling them and not identifying with it creates this sense that something is wrong with them in the person, which I see trying to avoid as a good thing.

I mean they aren't hiding it from the kid forever or something, and the kid isn't 1 year old are you honestly telling me that it will make that much of a difference for a child to not be called a girl/boy constantly for age the child will mostly not remember? Their other older child clearly knows their gender[whom they did the same thing with in the past]

P.S. Parents who drive/force/encourage their kids do their dream couldn't fullfill, you know becoming sports/music/movie star/big name college/etc are far more on an ego trip compared to this, and you don't often see people complain about those parents .

P.P.S. Genetics vs Nurturing has yet be factually proven one way or the other except that we know genetics has some influence, but that isn't evidence to claim it's the only factor. Unless I missed some major study proving this otherwise.
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Old 2011-05-25, 01:23   Link #4911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post

P.P.S. Genetics vs Nurturing has yet be factually proven one way or the other except that we know genetics has some influence, but that isn't evidence to claim it's the only factor. Unless I missed some major study proving this otherwise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

i think the case is pretty much slam dunk in favor of nature over nurture.
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Old 2011-05-25, 01:36   Link #4912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

i think the case is pretty much slam dunk in favor of nature over nurture.
I've heard of that before, and while it does shows that genetics is definitely a factor; however, showing genetics is a factor doesn't prove without a doubt that nurturing makes absolutely no difference in general. Evidences for something like this doesn't work that way.
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Old 2011-05-25, 01:54   Link #4913
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Not entirely sure if that is viable. Nature is there for specific reason and potentially shortcircuiting nature tends to not have good results. Historically speaking anyway. Maybe they will be fine, but they run a high risk of the kid getting culture shock entering school. And elementary school kids are brutal to things that are different from what they consider normal.
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Old 2011-05-25, 02:52   Link #4914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

i think the case is pretty much slam dunk in favor of nature over nurture.
It's a single case study. Whilst it does lend some support to the idea of nature over nurture, it's by no means the 'slam dunk' of evidence.
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Old 2011-05-25, 04:29   Link #4915
ganbaru
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Anti-Americanism rife in Pakistan army institution: Wikileaks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...74O1EA20110525
I can't say than it's a surprise...
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Old 2011-05-25, 09:07   Link #4916
MrTerrorist
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Oh no they didn't.

Marmite: Denmark says spread could be illegal
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Old 2011-05-25, 09:09   Link #4917
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
I've heard of that before, and while it does shows that genetics is definitely a factor; however, showing genetics is a factor doesn't prove without a doubt that nurturing makes absolutely no difference in general. Evidences for something like this doesn't work that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It's a single case study. Whilst it does lend some support to the idea of nature over nurture, it's by no means the 'slam dunk' of evidence.
Quote:
The report and subsequent book about Reimer influenced several medical practices and reputations, and even current understanding of the biology of gender. The case accelerated the decline of sex reassignment and surgery for unambiguous XY male infants with micropenis, various other rare congenital malformations or penile loss in infancy.
It supported the arguments of those who feel that prenatal and early-infantile hormones have a strong influence on brain differentiation, gender identity and perhaps other sex-dimorphic behavior. The applicability of this case to appropriate sex assignment in cases of intersex conditions involving severe deficiency of testosterone or insensitivity to its effects is more uncertain. For some people, the inability to predict gender identity in this case confirmed skepticism about doctors' abilities to do so in general, or about the wisdom of using genital reconstructive surgery to commit an infant with an intersex condition or genital defect to a specific gender role before the child is old enough to claim a gender identity.
The Intersex Society of North America, which opposes involuntary sex reassignment, treats the story of David Peter Reimer as a cautionary tale about why the genitals of unconsenting minors should not be needlessly modified.[6]


the medical establishment consider it pretty good evidence.



what evidence do you have to the contrary?
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Old 2011-05-25, 09:25   Link #4918
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Damn Danes. Don't they have anything better to do?
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-05-25, 11:05   Link #4919
AnimeFan188
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Compressed air turns NZ trucker into human balloon

"A New Zealand truck driver said he blew up like a balloon when he fell onto the
fitting of a compressed air hose that pierced his buttock and forced air into his
body at 100 pounds a square inch."

See:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110525/...9tcHJlc3NlZGFp
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Old 2011-05-25, 11:19   Link #4920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Damn Danes. Don't they have anything better to do?
Yeah. Like banning Vegemite first?
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