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Old 2007-12-24, 07:17   Link #761
cnnydz
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yeah.pheles raised johan herself
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Old 2007-12-24, 11:02   Link #762
DeotoxSlayer
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Originally Posted by cnnydz View Post
yeah.pheles raised johan herself
ug...ten Pheles is creepy, she raised the guy as her son. Then she slept with him.....I knew Guze No Ou's were weird, but this is taking it a bit too far.
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Old 2007-12-24, 11:23   Link #763
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ug...ten Pheles is creepy, she raised the guy as her son. Then she slept with him.....I knew Guze No Ou's were weird, but this is taking it a bit too far.

I think that's almost analgous to the old Aphrodite and Adonis myth: Adonis was raised by Aphrodite and Persephone as a child and both goddesses wanted him for themselves.
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Old 2007-12-24, 17:21   Link #764
lua thien
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ug...ten Pheles is creepy, she raised the guy as her son. Then she slept with him.....I knew Guze No Ou's were weird, but this is taking it a bit too far.
If she did intimately sleep with Johan when he's under the legal age, then that's really taking it too far.
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Old 2007-12-24, 17:39   Link #765
SoldierOfDarkness
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Let's be fair here.

She's not human.
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Old 2007-12-24, 18:15   Link #766
lua thien
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Of course not. But since Pheles does assume a human form and raised Johan in hopes of not corrupting his good heart, wouldn't turning a motherly bond into a romantic couple bond be a form of corruption?
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Old 2007-12-24, 18:36   Link #767
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I'm sorry for the interruption, but could someone please tell me if there is a place to read English translations of the Shakugan no Shana light novels?
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Old 2007-12-24, 19:23   Link #768
cnnydz
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Of course not. But since Pheles does assume a human form and raised Johan in hopes of not corrupting his good heart, wouldn't turning a motherly bond into a romantic couple bond be a form of corruption?
no u got it wrong, she wanted him to be consumed in greed, but was unable to corrupt him. she was as evil as one can get, she consumed humans in front of him to gain the POE needed to fulfill his wishes.

ps: Merry X-mas everyone
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Old 2007-12-24, 20:16   Link #769
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no u got it wrong, she wanted him to be consumed in greed, but was unable to corrupt him. she was as evil as one can get, she consumed humans in front of him to gain the POE needed to fulfill his wishes.

ps: Merry X-mas everyone
I already knew that, though why didn't he get consumed in greed, most humans would. It's kinda mean to make him see the people that get destroyed for the sake of his wishes. How exactly did he fall in love with her, if he knew that she was evil? I still feel that it's a little weird, as Lua Thien said, it's kinda disturbing to change they're motherly bond into a romantic one.
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Old 2007-12-24, 22:17   Link #770
lua thien
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Okay, how do you teach a newborn on how to avoid corrupting his/her own heart? If Pheles did raise Johan as you say, then there's a contradiction on being unable to corrupt his heart while raising him. Surely, Johan couldn't have subconsciously resist such temptation while he was a kid since children can easily be brainwashed into being unable to distinguish the common morals that humanity discovered about themselves.

Of course, unless Pheles was unaware that she was strengthening his moral defenses in the attempts of corrupting Johan, then it would be impossible to raise a youngling and find out that he/she couldn't be corrupted when growing up.

I might be incorrect about this if there was another explanation that accurately describes this.
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Old 2007-12-24, 22:18   Link #771
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Originally Posted by Flame Haze View Post
I'm sorry for the interruption, but could someone please tell me if there is a place to read English translations of the Shakugan no Shana light novels?
The only way to read them is if you buy the English versions of the novels, since nobody has translated the novels in actuality.
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Old 2007-12-24, 22:21   Link #772
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Originally Posted by lua thien View Post
Okay, how do you teach a newborn on how to avoid corrupting his/her own heart? If Pheles did raise Johan as you say, then there's a contradiction on being unable to corrupt his heart while raising him. Surely, Johan couldn't have subconsciously resist such temptation while he was a kid since children can easily be brainwashed into being unable to distinguish the common morals that humanity discovered about themselves.

Of course, unless Pheles was unaware that she was strengthening his moral defenses in the attempts of corrupting Johan, then it would be impossible to raise a youngling and find out that he/she couldn't be corrupted when growing up.

I might be incorrect about this if there was another explanation that accurately describes this.
Not everyone is the same. For Johan apparently it didn't worked on him. Maybe there was something else in him that kept him from being fully corrupted.

Or perhaps it was his love for Pheles that "focused" him on her rather than anything else.

My 2 cents there.
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Old 2007-12-24, 22:24   Link #773
lua thien
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Not everyone is the same. For Johan apparently it didn't worked on him. Maybe there was something else in him that kept him from being fully corrupted.

Or perhaps it was his love for Pheles that "focused" him on her rather than anything else.

My 2 cents there.
Hmm... it sounds possible.
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Old 2007-12-25, 06:52   Link #774
cnnydz
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remeber i said pheles was a playful one, so she didn't just cosume humans she also help them and make friends with them. in the years they mostly live around humans and made lots of friends ( though sometime pheles eat them after she got bored), so i guess johan find it better to stay firends with them than eating them. also corrupting johan was her expectation rather than her goal, she meerly wanted to see what happens
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Old 2007-12-25, 10:52   Link #775
lua thien
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Sounds like the Guze Monarches tend to prey on humans when they assume a corporeal form on Earth, even the ones that later make contracts to the Flame Hazes. What is the true meaning of maintaining the balance? It has to be more than just keeping the worlds in balance.

Dumb question on my part: What is the Guze world like that the Tomogara decided to invade the earth?
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Old 2007-12-25, 17:22   Link #776
cnnydz
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Sounds like the Guze Monarches tend to prey on humans when they assume a corporeal form on Earth, even the ones that later make contracts to the Flame Hazes. What is the true meaning of maintaining the balance? It has to be more than just keeping the worlds in balance.

Dumb question on my part: What is the Guze world like that the Tomogara decided to invade the earth?
no one knows what will happen if the balance is lost, but most guze no ous think something bad will happen. the guze world can't be described by words, in fact the name guze and tomogara were made up by a poet who met a guze no ou, so no human being can really understand it. as for why they came here, it is because earth has what they are craving for - POE. and wiht this they can get power and wealth. (the guze world is like a waste land where the tomogaras lived poorly)
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Old 2007-12-26, 00:14   Link #777
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Not everyone is the same. For Johan apparently it didn't worked on him. Maybe there was something else in him that kept him from being fully corrupted.

Or perhaps it was his love for Pheles that "focused" him on her rather than anything else.

My 2 cents there.
How they are raised makes them different but everyone is born with that same empty mentality from the first second they get into the world.

Since Pheles raised Johan, that possibly might have been the factor that saved his life.

At least the Guze Queen can't procreate IF AND ONLY IF she actually slept with Johan.
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Old 2007-12-26, 08:17   Link #778
cnnydz
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At least the Guze Queen can't procreate IF AND ONLY IF she actually slept with Johan.
pheles is a she because back in guze world she will be the one that give life to new tomogaras . and there is one unrestricted method that allows a tomogara and human to have a child, but it requires huge amounts of POE
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Old 2007-12-26, 09:42   Link #779
lua thien
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pheles is a she because back in guze world she will be the one that give life to new tomogaras . and there is one unrestricted method that allows a tomogara and human to have a child, but it requires huge amounts of POE
Uh...hmm...

I could imagine Hecate and Yuji being able to pull that off using that fountain of existence while in the Guze in order to activate that Unrestricted Method.

And to think that I once though that Tomogaras are born spontaneously.
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Old 2007-12-26, 11:43   Link #780
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Uh...hmm...

I could imagine Hecate and Yuji being able to pull that off using that fountain of existence while in the Guze in order to activate that Unrestricted Method.

And to think that I once though that Tomogaras are born spontaneously.
Does anyone even know how Tomogora's are acually born???
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