AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Gundam

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-09-28, 16:19   Link #281
kaito-kid
As I make you stop, think
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Europe - The Netherlands
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post

It's because he was more popularm that creators changed the series and turned it into his tour-de-force. Laame...
"changed" the series? How wold you know? U work for Sunrise or something?

And even if they did change the script because of the fans, How is that Kira's fault?

My guess is that Sunrise decided to take another direction with the story because the new characters weren't able to capture a strong fanbase...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
bla, bla, bla, in the end, he is still the number second most popular character in the Animage and has remained in the top 3 ever since Gundam Seed was launched.
OMG!@! He is still in the top 5?!? Someone needs to kill this guy...
__________________

Last edited by kaito-kid; 2008-09-28 at 16:38.
kaito-kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-28, 17:25   Link #282
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
First off, I fail to see how the lack of good pilots on the AA somehow makes Kira a better pilot.
Yeah, what really made Kira a good pilot is fighting in environments that the Strike wasn't really built for.
Quote:
As for the Impulse vs Freedom, I've recently seen someone argue that Kira was indeed ready to kill. The basic argument is that when Kira starts the swing that takes off Impulse's arm and head, Shinn moves into the swing and had Shinn not moved he would have been killed. Wanderer's post in this thread on seed-forums.com, put together some screenshot evidence. I think the other instance would be when Kira takes a swipe at the Impulse's lower body, Shinn detaches his legs while flying upwards and Kira ends up swinging between the detached legs and the stomach, again the argument being that if Shinn didn't move he'd have been killed.

Personally I'm skeptical about both cases and would avoid using either in a debate, but it does provide a nice counter to the 'lol Kira would totally pwn Shinn if he wanted to' arguments I see over and over.
Except in the first case Kira was swinging too high and in the second case he was swinging too low. And given that there's a big area in the middle where the cockpit is, I don't think that's where Kira was aiming.
Quote:
And if Kira is indeed better than Shinn (I think I've actually admitted as much somewhere in this thread ), then Kira is I think the only Gundam protagonist (or maybe pilot period) to lose to an inferior pilot. Not looking to hot for the 'Kira is the best Gundam pilot next to Amuro' proclamation I saw earlier (something I doubt is based on anything but fanboying).
Meh, it could also mean Shinn is much better than anything Amuro or whoever else ever faced. I myself never really see the point in a "serious" comparison across gundam universe.
monster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-28, 17:26   Link #283
GundamMeisterLockon
Lock N Load
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GUNDAM CITY
the fact is kira lost and shin won u got 2 give it 2 shin he deserved the victory he knew kira didn't have the guts to kill him and he used that. Anything goes in war right? wat i don't like about kira is that he is 2 damn strong and he always uses the same moves in the same way he was far too predictable to watch and i found it boaring lol i even found my self skipping some of the fights and watching the romance lol
GundamMeisterLockon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-28, 17:29   Link #284
Sir Dearka
Inglourious Buster
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
"changed" the series? How wold you know? U work for Sunrise or something?

And even if they did change the script because of the fans, How is that Kira's fault?

My guess is that Sunrise decided to take another direction with the story because the new characters weren't able to capture a strong fanbase...
Ok, not change. If you like to nitpick so much on semantics. Not necessarily at least. But it turned out just plain lame, the Kira Destiny scenario. Kira's fault? Noo... it's the creator's fault that they've made him so cheap.

And the reason new characters did not "catch up"? I think it all started when they decided to pit Shinn against Cagalli. The chick everybody loved but also turned out to be a catastrophic character in Destiny after the brilliant SEED background.
Sir Dearka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-28, 22:19   Link #285
Neku
yare yare..
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth (:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
But of course. Everybody pretty much failed in Destiny.
Opinion.

Quote:
But to me Kira's failure is of the worst kind - being so cheap in his "perfectness" that it just seems lame.
*laughs*

Quote:
Ok, not change. If you like to nitpick so much on semantics. Not necessarily at least. But it turned out just plain lame, the Kira Destiny scenario. Kira's fault? Noo... it's the creator's fault that they've made him so cheap.
Contradictory, isn't it? So it's not Kira's failure after all.

Quote:
And the reason new characters did not "catch up"? I think it all started when they decided to pit Shinn against Cagalli. The chick everybody loved but also turned out to be a catastrophic character in Destiny after the brilliant SEED background.
..because there are chances her fanbase was too big, and all of them detested Shinn thus causing him to fail.. fall like an idiot who doesn't even know the heck was going on around him later on in the story?

Affirmative. Shinn knows nothing. Neither in the story nor plot-wise.
Have to say though, it isn't Shinn's fault he failed as a character. It's just the way he was developed. Let's just say they were trying to make him so much like an arrogant bastard and it didn't really turn out well.
__________________
Reborn!
(with nosebleed)
Neku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-28, 22:43   Link #286
Eagles
Char clone
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canada
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neku View Post
Contradictory, isn't it? So it's not Kira's failure after all.
Kira as a character failed because the production team failed (in our opinions at least).


Quote:
..because there are chances her fanbase was too big, and all of them detested Shinn thus causing him to fail.. fall like an idiot who doesn't even know the heck was going on around him later on in the story?

Affirmative. Shinn knows nothing. Neither in the story nor plot-wise.
Have to say though, it isn't Shinn's fault he failed as a character. It's just the way he was developed. Let's just say they were trying to make him so much like an arrogant bastard and it didn't really turn out well.
eh? I don't remember Shinn being that out of the loop. Shinn chose to fight for ZAFT because it was his new home. He chose to fight for the Destiny Plan because he thought it could put an end to wars.

Sure he might have not 'killed' Athrun if he knew the whole situation (or he might have, Athrun did desert). But I mean Kira probably would've probably just ignored Flay had he known that she was just trying to manipulate him (he does that later on anyway).

And Kira flying around shooting the shit out of both sides? Yea, dumber than anything I've seen Shinn do.
__________________
Eagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 00:32   Link #287
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
And Kira flying around shooting the shit out of both sides? Yea, dumber than anything I've seen Shinn do.
You really need to rewatch the show before you make statements like this.

The first time Kira went into battle, he shot only at the Minerva to prevent it from firing the positron cannon. It's not Kira's fault Orb was too afraid to stand up to the EA and decided to attack Cagalli instead.

So really, "flying around shooting the shit out of both sides" is the smart thing to do when both sides would kill Kira if he let them and he has the ability to do so.
monster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 01:30   Link #288
Eagles
Char clone
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canada
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert View Post
You really need to rewatch the show before you make statements like this.

The first time Kira went into battle, he shot only at the Minerva to prevent it from firing the positron cannon. It's not Kira's fault Orb was too afraid to stand up to the EA and decided to attack Cagalli instead.

So really, "flying around shooting the shit out of both sides" is the smart thing to do when both sides would kill Kira if he let them and he has the ability to do so.
Kira shoots the Minerva's cannon and Cagalli makes her speech (I'm surprised she thought would actually work). After that Kira decides to go around disabling every MS in sight. That was stupid. When Cagalli's plan didn't work he should have just left/covered the AA's escape instead of flying off on his own. Athrun even told him what he did was stupid later on and that Cagalli should return to Orb (which they end up doing anyway later on, and it actually works!).

Then the next battle rolls along and yet again Cagalli isn't able to stop the fight and Kira once again is out disabling everything he can. Although this time Athrun goes and tells him what he's doing is stupid while he's doing it, and of course Kira gets mad and does his 'but Cagalli is crying' speech.

I can't see this as smart in the least, I'm sticking by my choice to call it dumber than anything Shinn's done.
__________________
Eagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 02:39   Link #289
Sir Dearka
Inglourious Buster
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neku View Post
Opinion.
That's right. I see that you're beginning to get it (though slowly)

Shinn was made to be a tragic character that fights to end all the wars, just like Kira. It's just that he chose the side that turned out to be far weaker and corrupted. He did not have a right to know. I say he was more human than Kira who just joined the Lacus' "perfect-perfect uberhuman league". And that's what I liked more about him in Destiny.

Don't get me wrong. I still like SEED very much. As well as Lacus team as I am for kindness and stuff. But in Destiny they just made it a joke. And Akatsuki/Strike Freedom is the embodiment of this, all shiny and cheap
Sir Dearka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 02:43   Link #290
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
I can't see this as smart in the least, I'm sticking by my choice to call it dumber than anything Shinn's done.
It's smart because if they had just left, then nothing would've been accomplished. They were already involved the moment Kira shot Minerva. With Kira shooting both sides, he has the chance to end the battle quicker, which he did. And it's also to his advantage because it's much easier to escape a battle when no one is shooting at you.
monster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 03:44   Link #291
Paladinoras
Pancakes
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
Kira shoots the Minerva's cannon and Cagalli makes her speech (I'm surprised she thought would actually work). After that Kira decides to go around disabling every MS in sight. That was stupid. When Cagalli's plan didn't work he should have just left/covered the AA's escape instead of flying off on his own. Athrun even told him what he did was stupid later on and that Cagalli should return to Orb (which they end up doing anyway later on, and it actually works!).

Then the next battle rolls along and yet again Cagalli isn't able to stop the fight and Kira once again is out disabling everything he can. Although this time Athrun goes and tells him what he's doing is stupid while he's doing it, and of course Kira gets mad and does his 'but Cagalli is crying' speech.

I can't see this as smart in the least, I'm sticking by my choice to call it dumber than anything Shinn's done.
Kira disabled every MS in sight because he wanted to stop the fighting and minimalise the human casualties. The ZAFT and ORB forces were out there to kill. Had Kira not done what he did, there would be a much higher casualty list from both sides. If you call saving people's lives stupid, then I can't help you much. . .
__________________


Credit to Godlike1889 for the sig!
Paladinoras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 08:54   Link #292
RAVNEN
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: malim nawar,malaysia
Age: 27
Send a message via Yahoo to RAVNEN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Kira disabled every MS in sight because he wanted to stop the fighting and minimalise the human casualties. The ZAFT and ORB forces were out there to kill. Had Kira not done what he did, there would be a much higher casualty list from both sides. If you call saving people's lives stupid, then I can't help you much. . .
Yeah, I agree with you.Kira did the right thing by disable both side forces.If what he did is stupid then why he save Minerva by shooting the Murasame?(it aiming at Minerva bridge).

Kira succesfully minimize casualty for both side in the end.
RAVNEN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 09:01   Link #293
Neku
yare yare..
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth (:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles
Kira as a character failed because the production team failed (in our opinions at least).
Actually, you didn't get why I said that.

Quote:
eh? I don't remember Shinn being that out of the loop. Shinn chose to fight for ZAFT because it was his new home. He chose to fight for the Destiny Plan because he thought it could put an end to wars.

Sure he might have not 'killed' Athrun if he knew the whole situation (or he might have, Athrun did desert). But I mean Kira probably would've probably just ignored Flay had he known that she was just trying to manipulate him (he does that later on anyway).
Shinn was manipulated by a lot of things. His emotions, Rey, Durandal.

Quote:
And Kira flying around shooting the shit out of both sides? Yea, dumber than anything I've seen Shinn do.
Kira was representing the real Orb i.e Cagalli to stop the war. At that moment, Orb -commanded by Yuuna- was EA. They were fighting on Orb's territory, and EA was basically using Orb's territory, which is definitely against Cagalli, Orb's President's principles. Similarly, if EA and ZAFT were to fight near Orb, and happen to breach Orb's territory, Orb would shoot down EITHER or both of them.

It's the same theory. It's just how you see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka
That's right. I see that you're beginning to get it (though slowly)
You don't get what I mean though.
Opinions are pointless.

Quote:
Shinn was made to be a tragic character that fights to end all the wars, just like Kira. It's just that he chose the side that turned out to be far weaker and corrupted. He did not have a right to know. I say he was more human than Kira who just joined the Lacus' "perfect-perfect uberhuman league". And that's what I liked more about him in Destiny.

Don't get me wrong. I still like SEED very much. As well as Lacus team as I am for kindness and stuff. But in Destiny they just made it a joke. And Akatsuki/Strike Freedom is the embodiment of this, all shiny and cheap
You need to start understanding that I don't care about your opinions. So it's either you're just replying me because you don't at all understand but pretend to, or you just wanna talk, talk and talk.
__________________
Reborn!
(with nosebleed)
Neku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 09:07   Link #294
Sir Dearka
Inglourious Buster
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neku View Post
You don't get what I mean though.
Opinions are pointless.
Nope, they aren't. That's one of the reasons such forums as Animesuki exist. To share opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neku View Post
You need to start understanding that I don't care about your opinions. So it's either you're just replying me because you don't at all understand but pretend to, or you just wanna talk, talk and talk.
LOL, I'm not pretending anything. I'm just replying to you and you reply to me. Normal thing. Every action brings reaction. Even the sharing of opinions. Your reaction to my bad opinion about Destiny Kira and good about Shinn... I find pretty amusing.

AND... if you did not care about my opinions, you'd not answer to them.
Sir Dearka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 09:27   Link #295
RAVNEN
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: malim nawar,malaysia
Age: 27
Send a message via Yahoo to RAVNEN
Orb is a neutral country in CE universe,they allied with EA coz Yona Roma Seran and his corrupt,power hungry & stupid associates thought it would be good for their own gain.That why Yona want to marry Cagalli, so he and his father can rule Orb.After all Orb has advanced MS tech than EA have.

Kira & Cagalli want to protect Orb coz if Orb fall they will no other nation willing to end the pointless war.While Shinn want to free the nation by destroy it.(strange)
RAVNEN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 11:43   Link #296
Eagles
Char clone
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canada
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert View Post
It's smart because if they had just left, then nothing would've been accomplished. They were already involved the moment Kira shot Minerva. With Kira shooting both sides, he has the chance to end the battle quicker, which he did. And it's also to his advantage because it's much easier to escape a battle when no one is shooting at you.
When Kira was flying around disabling every MS he could, he made them a bunch of sitting ducks. He caused unnecessary deaths (Heine for one - and it's unrealistic to assume Heine was the only who was killed by being distracted), and basically made everything a mess. The first battle ends with Orbs retreat, which would have probably ended sooner had Kira not damaged Minerva, damaged the Impulse, been a major factor in Heine's death, and generally distracted ZAFT's aces (Athrun/Shinn/Heine).

And the second battle? Sure his timely intervention may have saved the Minerva, but had the Minerva gone down the battle would have ended. Then after Cagalli's speech doesn't work a second time his continued presence of the battlefield probably prolongs the battle again. Shinn wipes out the Orb fleet, which probably would have happened faster had Athrun not been tied up and then 'saviored' and Rey and the Minerva not damaged later on.

*********************************************

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neku View Post

Shinn was manipulated by a lot of things. His emotions, Rey, Durandal.
By his emotions would be...by himself? Indeed he was manipulated by Rey, but I think he was just simply following/believing in Durandal.

Quote:
Kira was representing the real Orb i.e Cagalli to stop the war. At that moment, Orb -commanded by Yuuna- was EA. They were fighting on Orb's territory, and EA was basically using Orb's territory, which is definitely against Cagalli, Orb's President's principles. Similarly, if EA and ZAFT were to fight near Orb, and happen to breach Orb's territory, Orb would shoot down EITHER or both of them.

It's the same theory. It's just how you see it.
That seems like... the most immature reasoning (on Cagalli's part) that I've ever seen. Maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong.
__________________
Eagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 11:58   Link #297
RAVNEN
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: malim nawar,malaysia
Age: 27
Send a message via Yahoo to RAVNEN
Durandal is master at manipulate people.See how he manipulate Canard Pars to kill Kira,eventually Canard learn to move on with his life instead.

Maybe if Shinn meet Kira and the others more oftenly,he would never follow Rey & see Durandal real motive.Hope there will be new GS series so we can see how Shinn deal with his past & maturity of his character.
RAVNEN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 18:07   Link #298
Shadow Kira01
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PMB Headquarters
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAVNEN View Post
Durandal is master at manipulate people.See how he manipulate Canard Pars to kill Kira,eventually Canard learn to move on with his life instead.

Maybe if Shinn meet Kira and the others more oftenly,he would never follow Rey & see Durandal real motive.Hope there will be new GS series so we can see how Shinn deal with his past & maturity of his character.
Apparently, it certainly does seem like that Shinn was manipulated all along by Rey and Durandal, but his vengeance on the Strike Freedom seemed more personal and at the same time, it happens that the pilot of the Strike Freedom was Kira.

However, Shinn in GS-Destiny surely was somewhat immature for blaming the Strike Freedom for his family's death, because it is obvious that pilots fighting in the sky wouldn't or rather to say, cannot pay attention to the land as to whether there are civilians nearby. Otherwise, the Strike Freedom would be easily shot down, considering that Kira was battling a few ace pilots at once. In other words, Shinn cannot blame Kira over it, yet it is understandable.
Shadow Kira01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 18:38   Link #299
coba
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
However, Shinn in GS-Destiny surely was somewhat immature for blaming the Strike Freedom for his family's death, because it is obvious that pilots fighting in the sky wouldn't or rather to say, cannot pay attention to the land as to whether there are civilians nearby. Otherwise, the Strike Freedom would be easily shot down, considering that Kira was battling a few ace pilots at once. In other words, Shinn cannot blame Kira over it, yet it is understandable.
I am not really so sure where did you get this, but I don't believe shinn blames Freedom for the death of his family (never once in the anime they show this). he starts to blame freedom after ep 23 where Heine is dead due to Freedom interferes during the battle and it is getting worse after Freedom kills Stellar.
coba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-30, 04:43   Link #300
PzIVf3
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere at Earth
Shinn should have familiar the Freedom design from the past, there are only 3 M.S. including Freedom battling in that area were many scattering civilian flee to the evacuation area. If Shinn could remember when he first encounter the Freedom somewhere in the Mediterranean sea he might goes berserk and curse at the Freedom.
PzIVf3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.