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Old 2008-07-17, 02:55   Link #41
Sir Dearka
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
No, but it does show his amazing girl-getting skills.
Girl-getting skills?? Every fool knows that the girls are into powerful guys with reputation

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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Well, if he didin't please the crowd, Kira would be dead, Athrun would be a cripple and God knows what would happen to Shinn. And Dearka would probably die too.
Although I think he pleases the crowd more than a regular hooker, it is not necesarrily a bad thing.

I think it's impossible to replace the current cast. For better or for worse, everyone recognizes them already. Changing them would kill the profits.
That's why I said "this time" in my last post. The "crowd-pleasing" in the first series was IMO, perfect (call it amazing luck or a sudden burst of Fukuda's talent). I think that if the cerators did the job well, Shinn would evolve to become a much better character and there'd be no need to replace him with the old cast. The old strategy doesn't work twice on the same target. People like old things, but just LOVE the new ones if they are handed down well.

Last edited by Sir Dearka; 2008-07-17 at 03:14.
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Old 2008-07-17, 06:55   Link #42
Paladinoras
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
Girl-getting skills?? Every fool knows that the girls are into powerful guys with reputation


That's why I said "this time" in my last post. The "crowd-pleasing" in the first series was IMO, perfect (call it amazing luck or a sudden burst of Fukuda's talent). I think that if the cerators did the job well, Shinn would evolve to become a much better character and there'd be no need to replace him with the old cast. The old strategy doesn't work twice on the same target. People like old things, but just LOVE the new ones if they are handed down well.
Athrun did not really have power, just a reputation. And nahh, he doesn't need that. Even Miriallia fell prey to him. Although I might have interpreted it wrongly.

Yeah, I would prefer it if Kira had actually worked together with Shinn or at least Shinn becomes less of a manipulated lowlife. But, that is what he turned out to be. And everyone hates him. Well, the new Gundam Seed movie already has Shinn and Kira's seiyuu in it, so any hopes for new ones are dashed.

But Morosawa has shown that she is more adept in short scripts than long ones, so I am just gonna hope for the best.
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Old 2008-07-17, 07:30   Link #43
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras
Yeah, I would prefer it if Kira had actually worked together with Shinn or at least Shinn becomes less of a manipulated lowlife. But, that is what he turned out to be. And everyone hates him. Well, the new Gundam Seed movie already has Shinn and Kira's seiyuu in it, so any hopes for new ones are dashed.
Not everyone hates Shinn. As infamous as he is, he does have a fanbase.
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Old 2008-07-17, 07:37   Link #44
Sir Dearka
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Yeah, I would prefer it if Kira had actually worked together with Shinn or at least Shinn becomes less of a manipulated lowlife. But, that is what he turned out to be. And everyone hates him. Well, the new Gundam Seed movie already has Shinn and Kira's seiyuu in it, so any hopes for new ones are dashed.
Shinn was a manipulated lowlife, but this is what actually made him a much more interesting character in Destiny than Athrun or Kira. And I'd never say that everybody hates him. It's just that he is less popular than our uber-coordinator, which is understandable given the bond with the audience that was already established in the first SEED series. I personally like both characters, but come on... one could not say that Destiny Kira was a better character than Shinn. Mr. Yamato was just a bore this time. Too bad. They should have pulled out Amuro with him, which means "hopping in, helping/assisting someone in supa-cool way and then leaving it". The fact that he did not have any mecha or resources to buy one (that'd require the change in the character of Lacus, too, I suppose) would be enough an excuse for him not being able to save the world again. Everything in the hands of Athrun and co... But that's just my personal fan-vision.

Spoiler for Athrun off-topic:


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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
But Morosawa has shown that she is more adept in short scripts than long ones, so I am just gonna hope for the best.
I don't know anything about Morosawa except that she pretty much destroyed the show with her awful scripts.
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Old 2008-07-17, 08:04   Link #45
Neku
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka
I don't know anything about Morosawa except that she pretty much destroyed the show with her awful scripts.
Welp.. then you'll have to. Morosawa is someone that thrives with short scripts. Before, in SEED, she was only in charge with parts. In Destiny, she was fully responsible for a majority of the script. You can say she does better when she's focused and, on a smaller scope.

If Fukuda had maintained the idea of keeping a few scriptwriters in charge instead of shoving his wife all the responsibility, Destiny would definitely have been much better; Shinn would not be overshadowed, perhaps? Yet Fukuda has his reputation too i.e everytime he tries something new, it's successful. But when he proceeds to the sequel.. everything falls apart.

The idea of Destiny, if I recall correctly.. was to have Shinn lose everything. But they didn't exactly did that. Now if he became at least on par with Athrun, he would've ran into SEED mode when he tried to kill Luna, and the idea of him losing everything.. he should've killed Luna, and then BOOM! Lost everything, realized everything... repent.

No offence to Luna's fans btw. Just some crazy idea :P
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Old 2008-07-17, 14:11   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Neku View Post
Not everyone hates Shinn. As infamous as he is, he does have a fanbase.
Thats true, i use to like Shinn until they screwed him up.

(Offtopic) One question whatever happened to that GSD movie?
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:02   Link #47
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Well this year Shinn is getting more popular his character background borrowed the idea of creating Lelouch from Code Geass.
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Old 2008-07-17, 21:08   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Neku View Post
Welp.. then you'll have to. Morosawa is someone that thrives with short scripts. Before, in SEED, she was only in charge with parts. In Destiny, she was fully responsible for a majority of the script. You can say she does better when she's focused and, on a smaller scope.

If Fukuda had maintained the idea of keeping a few scriptwriters in charge instead of shoving his wife all the responsibility, Destiny would definitely have been much better; Shinn would not be overshadowed, perhaps? Yet Fukuda has his reputation too i.e everytime he tries something new, it's successful. But when he proceeds to the sequel.. everything falls apart.
She was always fully responsible for the screenplays, being the series writer and all. Its just that she didn't write them.

In Destiny she wrote parts of the screenplay for almost every episode, and edited a lot of the stuff that the rest of the writing staff wrote (but she didn't write ALL/most of the scripts as you said, unlike what Yousuke Kuroda is doing for 00). One reason for this seem to be staff disagreement over the plot and the characters. I believe Fukuda alluded to his in one of his interviews. When your writers aren't on the same page, the plot suffers, and IMO that is what happened.
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Old 2008-07-17, 22:20   Link #49
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Well in regards to Kira's skill in general, one thing we learned in SEED is that there's a BIG difference between kira and serious kira (vs Athrun, and especially vs Providence)
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Old 2008-07-18, 04:09   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Well this year Shinn is getting more popular his character background borrowed the idea of creating Lelouch from Code Geass.
Huh. I didn't make any connection to Shinn when I got to know Lelouch from Code Geass.
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Old 2008-07-18, 04:16   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya View Post
Huh. I didn't make any connection to Shinn when I got to know Lelouch from Code Geass.
Yeah, same here. Lelouch is a bastard, while Shinn is only a jerk. Lelouch has a brilliant mind, while Shinn tends to be more emotional and isn't very smart unless his SEED is activated. Lelouch is a physical weakling, while Shinn... well, why don't we just ask that nurse he punched out. And finally, Lelouch is terrible in a mech while Shinn is, well, a monster in a mech.

About the only comparison I can draw is their similar hair color and hair styles. That's it.
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Old 2008-07-18, 04:17   Link #52
Neku
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Originally Posted by brightman
In Destiny she wrote parts of the screenplay for almost every episode, and edited a lot of the stuff that the rest of the writing staff wrote (but she didn't write ALL/most of the scripts as you said, unlike what Yousuke Kuroda is doing for 00).
I never said she wrote all the scripts, and how does "almost every episode and the edited of a lot of the stuff" not equalize to a majority part of the script?
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Old 2008-07-18, 08:56   Link #53
Paladinoras
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Originally Posted by Bennyswan View Post
(Offtopic) One question whatever happened to that GSD movie?
Morosawa is apparently sick, so the project is halted for a while, but a basic plot is already outlined. Let's just hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Furple View Post
Well in regards to Kira's skill in general, one thing we learned in SEED is that there's a BIG difference between kira and serious kira (vs Athrun, and especially vs Providence)
Heh, true. If he gets serious, i.e. kill, I think that he will unarguably be the best non-newtype pilot ever. I think that if he actually kills, he can match up against weak newtypes. Amuro is still too far off though.
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Old 2008-07-18, 20:46   Link #54
PzIVf3
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Shinn has a very excellent major battle record through 1st up to 34. For some reason after 34, the creator decided Shinn making a poor fight ability and the High speed of Destriny Wings of Lights is getting normal speed, deleted the High Energy Beam Hand, always swinging big sword,
making him a terrible mess.
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Old 2008-07-27, 10:57   Link #55
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*scratches head* Logging on while on vacation it baffles me that I actually bothered to argue about a show I really don't even like. Also looking back I have to admit that I was wrong in saying Shinn was better than Kira. At best Shinn can match Kira when Kira is avoiding kills. An enraged-seed-mode Kira seems seems to be only matched by an enraged-seed-mode Athrun within the CE universe. Perhaps Shinn could beat an enraged Kira if he could get his head together and use some creative tactics, but Shinn in Destiny doesn't inspire much confidence, but then Kira in Strike-Freedom doesn't seem to be going down the rage path anytime soon.

On a side note, reading through this thread I find myself in most agreement with sir_dearka about basically anything he posted, which is a bit strange since I was sure we held opposite opinions.

On another side note, I'd have to disagree that Kira in strike was more skilled than Shinn in Impulse. Kira's daggers and computer tricks impressed me about as much as Shinn's fleet-destroying-Freedom-owning tricks. And well, since I like Shinn more, it's obvious which way my bias swings. Maybe this contradicts what I said two paragrahps up *shrugs*.

anyway internet is serious business and all that.
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Old 2008-07-28, 23:44   Link #56
Neku
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Originally Posted by Eagles
On another side note, I'd have to disagree that Kira in strike was more skilled than Shinn in Impulse. Kira's daggers and computer tricks impressed me about as much as Shinn's fleet-destroying-Freedom-owning tricks.
Really?
You think so?
You're really tempting me.. but nah. I know in actual who's really the best: Athrun. Since he simply breezed through Shinn in SEED mode. But that'll be off-topic.

As for whether Kira > Shinn or Shinn > Kira.
Angry Shinn in SEED mode > distracted Kira + silly no kill handicap
Kira in SEED mode > Angry Shinn
Kira in SEED mode ages ago > Angry Shinn
Shinn+Rey > Kira in SEED mode ages ago
Kira > Shinn in WoL
Kira in SEED mode and Angry Shinn in SEED mode = flying around

Seriously.. if Shinn was truly more skilful that Kira.. I wonder why he never got any hits in when they were both in SEED mode.
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Old 2008-07-31, 08:49   Link #57
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Really?
You think so?
You're really tempting me.. but nah. I know in actual who's really the best: Athrun. Since he simply breezed through Shinn in SEED mode. But that'll be off-topic.
Oh I don't doubt that Athrun's the best, even if he was pure shit in the Saviour.

Quote:
As for whether Kira > Shinn or Shinn > Kira.
Angry Shinn in SEED mode > distracted Kira + silly no kill handicap
(and Kira in SEED mode)
Quote:
Kira in SEED mode > Angry Shinn
Kira in SEED mode ages ago > Angry Shinn
Shinn+Rey > Kira in SEED mode ages ago
Kira in SEED mode and Angry Shinn in SEED mode = flying around
all very true.
Quote:
Kira > Shinn in WoL
WoL = wings of light? If so, I don't remember any decisive battles, except of course when Kira could have gotten a chest cannon kill on Shinn, but Kira was in SEED mode and Shinn was not, so thats more Kira SEED mode > Angry Shinn.

Quote:
Seriously.. if Shinn was truly more skilful that Kira.. I wonder why he never got any hits in when they were both in SEED mode.
When Shinn took down Freedom they were both in SEED mode. But you do have a point, after Freedom goes down Shinn isn't able to dent Kira (and gets cut up by Athrun), although Kira only managed to make a dent (or could have made a dent) when Shinn was out of SEED mode (and he was in it I believe).
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Old 2008-07-31, 09:03   Link #58
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I don't know why you persist in insisting Shin is anywhere near as good as Kira.

I just watched GSD 34 again, and it's a joke. Shin knows Kira doesn't go for mid-body shots so he just has to keep dodging his limbs and don't worry about his cockpit at all.

Also they were both in SEED mode when Kira gets the first real hit in (chops Impulse head off - he could've easily chopped the chest instead) after Shin gets an air swing with his sword. As soon as that happens, Shin gets replacement parts from Meyrin - that's it. As far as I'm concerned Shin lost at that point.

The only reason he managed to down Freedom was because he's got infinite lives (since Kira doesn't go for chest hits). Not to mention even at that crucial point of the stab, Kira was distracted by the Archangel going down.

This fight is so much a joke, that the author themself makes Kira state afterward that he wasn't serious.
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Old 2008-08-01, 01:11   Link #59
Neku
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Originally Posted by Eagles
Oh I don't doubt that Athrun's the best, even if he was pure shit in the Saviour.
Saviour. It's a great Gundam wasted.
If only Athrun was serious in that fight.

Quote:
(and Kira in SEED mode)
Ah yes. I missed that.
Doesn't really matter though. He was handicapped, by himself. Of course, he lost. But I think this was about who was more skillful. How does defeating a person, totally not interested in fighting or even killing you, distracted and by preparing cum training in simulation battles with the ability to replace parts count as skillful?

It's like you level up and max out all of your status in a RPG and going to whack the final boss once and boom, he's dead. No challenge.

Quote:
WoL = wings of light? If so, I don't remember any decisive battles, except of course when Kira could have gotten a chest cannon kill on Shinn, but Kira was in SEED mode and Shinn was not, so thats more Kira SEED mode > Angry Shinn.
If I'm not wrong, it's just about who's more skillful. It doesn't have to be decisive.
Kira managed to get a hit on Shinn(when he was dodging his DRAGOONs) before the chest cannon attack, and he wasn't in SEED mode.

Quote:
When Shinn took down Freedom they were both in SEED mode. But you do have a point, after Freedom goes down Shinn isn't able to dent Kira (and gets cut up by Athrun), although Kira only managed to make a dent (or could have made a dent) when Shinn was out of SEED mode (and he was in it I believe).
Yet Kira was distracted when he rushed to him with his ASS. Not to mention it's far-fetched how the beam in the ASS can stretch out far to penetrate Freedom's Phase Shift. Plus Kira chopped off Impulse's head. If he wants to he could slash at the cockpit. Bye Shinn.
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Old 2008-08-01, 02:26   Link #60
Sir Dearka
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Eagles - "Why so serious?" The fact that we tend to disagree on many matters does not mean we always have different opinions.

To me, Shinn was a star character of Destiny. The one with great potential, but wasted. The rest was just wasted almost from the beginning. The first euphoric 5 episodes passed and everything started to get worse, except from Shinn who was just discarded in the end.

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This fight is so much a joke, that the author themself makes Kira state afterward that he wasn't serious.
Yes it was a joke. Because Kira was still holding back though a whole bunch of his friends were endangered. In such critical situation, one would expect a hero to be a bit more "serious". Joker would love him ;D
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