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Old 2005-12-24, 12:17   Link #21
Kaoru Chujo
Kuno Misaki
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quajafrie
Wao, these things apply more or less on Shakugan no SHANA, but SnS is MUCH more popular than Noein.
I like Shana, too, both the series and the character. But that show is nowhere near the level of interest and quality of Noein. The story, the characters, the subtlety, the look -- none approach the power and originality of Noein.

Sometimes, being more popular means something is worse, not better. And some of Shana's popularity is based on the fanservice and the attractions of Shana herself. Nothing wrong with that, but it hardly means the anime is superior.

Or maybe I just find the science-based magic more satisfying than the simple fantasy of soul-eating monsters, kissing-siblings or not. Oh well, I guess I'll just keep watching Noein and Paradise Kiss with the self-selected few. Reading these forums is sometimes humbling, as I come to realize how many valid kinds of taste there are.
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Old 2005-12-24, 13:46   Link #22
MrProphet
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Shana has one thing going for it and that's called "moe". I think the moe-crowd has become really-really powerful as a part of anime fandom these days. Lots of loli-lovin' freaks out there. 8)

Neoin sometimes turns moe when Haruka is in the bathtub (she kinda gets cute), but all in all, Shakugan no Shana is much more mainsteam than Noein. Cute girls with katanas were always a major hit.

PS When you said "SnS", I immediately thought of Seikai no Senki. Another one of my favourite shows. 8)
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Old 2005-12-24, 13:50   Link #23
MrProphet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wao
Edit: Seems like the official site's got some new things. You can see clearly who are Gokan, Enra and Taiza, the 3 head honchos of Lacrima. Am I the only one who thinks Taiza looks like Sasahara, and more worringly, that Gokan looks vaguely like a fat and ugly version of Uchida? But I wonder if it's a coincidence that she has the same seiyuu as Miho's mother ...
When they first showed the council in Lacrima in one of the earlier episodes, my first thought was: "What? Is that Miho of the future?"

She does look like Miho somewhat, but if that's Uchida, then I am surprised. But this is the alternative world, so anything can be true and not all things are being equal. Though I still think Gokan looks like Miho.

As for Haruka's dad, he kinda looks like one of those "free wondering crazy artist" types. 8)
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Old 2005-12-24, 17:08   Link #24
Griffith
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I'm a fan of SnS and other "mainstream" shows such as Bleach, Naruto etc., but there's something about Noein that makes it stand out from all the others and make me like it even more. It has sort of an otherworldly feel to it (pardon the pun) that very few shows have, the only other this year I felt the same about was Zettai Shonen, which I also loved and felt was woefully under-appreciated.

I've seen up to episode 9 so far and I like the way the show seems to be going. It would be great if more people found out about it, but it not being listed on Animesuki doesn't help those chances.
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Old 2005-12-24, 19:30   Link #25
Acespeedy
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Anybody else think those weird flying machines were damn freaky, especially with the music and the whirring sound of their propellers, and those eye beams...whew..
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Old 2005-12-24, 20:46   Link #26
Trax
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What's even more freaky about those invasion ships, is the bulging eyes when they "die". But the whole design is weird, although on the other hand it's interesting how they are modelled after buddhist statues while originating from Shangrila, which is also associated with Buddhism I believe (couldn't find anything specific on it, aside from confirming the association).

As for episode 9, funny how they give the entire explanation on the behavior of Yuu's mom right away considering my last comment on that. Although I still don't quite understand why she would project those desires on her son like that, things were resolved quite nicely after she found out the truth about the past. Certainly helped losen her up. But after this peaceful little episode it looks like things will get hectic again in the next.
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Old 2005-12-24, 22:58   Link #27
wao
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Well, I'm guessing that the reasons for Yuu's mother being able to loosen up on her son like that were because she only did it out of desparation and the inability to confront her feelings; and she had only done it for 2 years... I was so very very happy when she decided to let Yuu decide for himself, and was pleasantly surprised when Yuu said he'll study for the exams anyway. It's so nice to see them make up. Although it still did seem sudden.. :\

I *love* those Flying Machines by the way, they really inspire a sense of awe and terror because they're so genuinely freakish! The way they're handled is absolutely great - their slow movement gives a sense of scale and those eyebeams are just awesome.
BTW they're called Yuugekitei by the staff, meaning something like Raid Ships, designed by Jun'ya Ishigaki.
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Old 2005-12-27, 19:17   Link #28
Altharion
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oohh ep 12 was fun for action and drama lovers.

Spoiler:
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Old 2005-12-27, 19:31   Link #29
MrProphet
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Wow, what an episode. Utsunomiya did NOT disappoint one bit. Needless to say that Karasu/Fukurou/Atori battle was the best animated "magical" fight I have ever seen in anime. Think of the battle with the machine in the first episode, but 10 times more intense. You'll recognize the same "rough sketch" style character designs that they've used before.

The episode also had just an ungodly amount of ideal, spot on moving 3DCG shots and panning shots. The way they were intergrated in the 2D animation was just perfect. Other episodes sometimes featured this technique as well, but this time the team had simply let it rip in terms of extra smooth and extra fine rendered graphics and kick-ass battle animation.

Spoiler:
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Old 2005-12-28, 01:28   Link #30
wao
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Oh god. Episode 12 was, a, a, a, amazing! If you thought ep 1 had fantastic animation well episode 12 just gave me a case of Jaw-Floor Attraction Syndrome.

Unbelieveable!

No, it is believeable.

Well anyway. Some VERY good choreography and animation - the layout and dynamic movement made you just feel the heat of the action and the pain of the drama like it was happening to you. (I think the fangirl also kicked in at that point.)

And it was just... I mustn't say if I'm even sad or happy at the end of this because that itself would be a spoiler.

Spoiler for ep 12, and warning: ultimate gushing:


I'm going to drown in my own fangirling very soon... but even from an 'objective' point of view, though the ep may have seemed a bit melodramatic, these were rather extraordinary things going on, and the way it was done certainly showed the skill of the storyboarder and the original story, and of course the animation did exactly what it was supposed to - convey everything in the story through the expressions and movement. Which it did perfectly.

Time to calm down now... breathe in, breathe out...

EDIT: By the way, this week's storyboarder was none other than Kazuhiro Furuhashi, the director of Rurouni Kenshin.

and Altharion, I think the next episode preview still isn't ready. Mine didn't have the next episode preview although all previous eps from teh same source had it. It just said "Look out for the next episode "Wish" next week!" at the end of the ED. I'm dying to see it too, but for now here's a (shoddy) translation of the 'synopsis' from web newtype:
Spoiler:
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Last edited by wao; 2005-12-28 at 01:38.
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Old 2005-12-28, 01:47   Link #31
DaFool
Resident devil
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wao
But then again, there's a load of animation directors for this show - ep 4 had eight of them and many others have had multiple ones (or assistants) as well as 2nd key animators (no clue what they do exactly, but perhaps they clean up the animation before passing it onto the AD?)... Perhaps it's because most of the animators can only draw nice pictures but can't actually draw good movement, so the animation directors have to spend so much time correcting that that they need to drag in other people? That's, of course, very different from how usual anime is produced... and if it's true, then that's one of the key things that makes Noein different.
I am truly amazed at your ability to gather specific technical information about minute production details.

Eight animation directors is no biggie. My animation studio is small and it has four full-time directors. Some studios just have some directors jump in and out on a per project basis. So yeah it depends on the episode in question. Animation directors are almost always expert animators, but that doesn't mean that their animators suck. If people can't draw with movement, they cannot become animators...they become layout, clean-up, or in-between artists.

About the Shana and Noein comparison...apples and oranges. Shana is a typical shounen superpower action anime, except that it was based on a seinen manga and it stars a loli. Lolicon, as we all know, is the staple of 3rd generation anime fandom, just like mechas were in 2nd generation fandom.

Noein is hardcore science fiction. But I love watching it more for the scenes of Hakodate than the post-apocalyptic world. Also, Haruka is the finest little girl I've ever seen drawn in anime because of her mannerisms and her voice actress and she's actually very realistically portrayed (unlike most loli chars-->"Urusai! Urusai! Urusai!" *cough*). So surprise surprise, this show is more moe to me at least.

Could someone enlighten me on Mr. Utsunomiya's trademark animations? Thanks.
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Old 2005-12-28, 02:18   Link #32
wao
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Eight animation directors seems to be a biggie in anime, though. (For one normal TV episode, anyway) Most of the time I've seen 1 or 2, usually 3 is the max in a show. But eight! Though I've heard that one ep of ROD had sixteen or something like that, just that they weren't credited apparently.

The production details thing comes from reading articles/interviews here and there, seeing pictures from various sites (including studio sites), and piecing things together. Honestly if I go to Japan I insist on visiting an animation studio and seeing everything for myself.

As for moe, Haruka is actually a perfect candidate but she doesn't annoy me to hell. The thing is, she genuinely is very likeable - she doesn't have to resort to contrived cuteness or unnatural childishness. Neither does she go the other extreme and try to be tough. I think that's one thing nice about her - she likes herself as she is. Sometimes she might seem scarily good - I mean, she does everything around the house, she's got a better temper than the rest, she genuinely cares about her friends, she's got a smart mind and knows what to do in danger and so on - but there are people like that, and it only serves to make me sympathize with Karasu in wanting to make sure a terrific girl like that doesn't come to great harm. Only that, in the course of doing it, she's probably going to come into greater harm...

EDIT: Don't you think this picture of Karasu's seiyuu makes him look slightly like Yuu?

edit2: I forgot to mention, if you want to watch Utsunomiya's stuff...

Paranoia Agent episode 8.
The third opening of Eureka 7, before it was corrected (just look for ep 27~30 or so).
Gosenzosama banbanzai (a 6-part OVA directed by Mamoru Oshii, a bit hard to find, but very characteristic).
Episode 19 of Sousei no Aquarion. Maybe Episode 2 of Aquarion (only the bit where Fudo and Apollo are fighting).
Ep 9 of Hakkenden (another OVA. EP 9 is actually episode 3 of the "sequel".)

Those are some of them.
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Last edited by wao; 2005-12-28 at 09:17.
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Old 2005-12-28, 02:54   Link #33
musouka
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I think what really makes Haruka for me is her lack of sensitivity when it comes to interpersonal relationships. I mean, she really is a sweet, intelligent girl, but a lot of the time, I don't think she really gets people, why they do the things they do or how they feel about other people. (I mean, come on, she doesn't realize her best friend has the hots for Isami?)

All of the kids in this show come across as real to me. They remind me of people I know, or people I could possibly meet, and I think that's what keeps the show together for me. In some respects I feel as nostalgic as Karasu watching them, thinking "yeah, I remember feeling like that/having friends like that".
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Old 2005-12-28, 05:02   Link #34
Splendiferous
To Shangrila or Bust!
 
 
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Episode 12: Tobi and Yuu scene

Did anyone feel that Tobi reacted with a kind of desperate sadness extreeeemley reminscent of Yuu?
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Old 2005-12-28, 10:55   Link #35
wao
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Oi oi oi.. I thought
Spoiler:


I think I can guess from the ep 13 synopsis + shots that
Spoiler:


edit: I'm still wondering
A.
Spoiler:

B.
Spoiler:
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Last edited by wao; 2005-12-28 at 11:19.
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Old 2005-12-28, 11:21   Link #36
Altharion
Pirate A
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wao
Oi oi oi.. I thought
Spoiler:
Spoiler:

Last edited by Altharion; 2005-12-28 at 11:47.
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Old 2005-12-28, 11:56   Link #37
MrProphet
The Commissar Vanishes
 
 
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I too thought that something was fishy with Atori (refer to my previous entry).
Spoiler:


As for Mr. Kaminogi, I don't know if he looks anything like Haruka (I see no resemblance), but there is one person that DOES remind me of Haruka's dad.
Spoiler:


As for the fighting, well, not everyone can see the Dragoons, so I assume only special people saw the fighting. Miho, Ai and Isami saw the blue snow, so perhaps they would be able to see the battle.

Here's a wild guess! Perhaps only the alternative versions of the guests from the future can see them? Or else Atori and Tobi would have been arrested long before, since they pretty much acted like a couple of bums.
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Old 2005-12-28, 12:03   Link #38
Altharion
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everyone can see that dragoons there havent been a case where someone couldnt see them, its not like bleach where only special people can see spirits and shinigami.

but only haruka and the dragoons can move when time stops.
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Old 2005-12-28, 12:39   Link #39
MrProphet
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Not so. In one of the earlier episode Baron was barking at Karasu while nobody else could see him. Also, Karasu keeps standing on the cross of the church in plain view, while noone noticed.
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Old 2005-12-28, 12:58   Link #40
Altharion
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the church thing i think has a deeper meaning and the baron thing in ep 5 was just baron seeing karasu and when the cat looked back karasu disappeared.

why would the kids and yukie be the only one who can see the dragoons?
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