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Old 2005-12-28, 13:04   Link #41
Splendiferous
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Quote:
Here's a wild guess! Perhaps only the alternative versions of the guests from the future can see them? Or else Atori and Tobi would have been arrested long before, since they pretty much acted like a couple of bums.
That seems a somewhat reasonable assumption, as I think it was episode 11 where Fukurou appears by chance in front of Ai and is surprised that he is seen (of course this surprise could easily be mixed with the surprise that he appears in front of Ai specifically in the first place).

I wonder how the consistency is explained though? Because Haruka can see Karasu et al. , and Yuu can see Fukurou/Tobi, etc... While no 'random person' appears to be able too see any of them (and certainly not Uchida for the moment, who took a picture of Haruka stopping the dam break but didn't catch Karasu who was right beside her...sure maybe he was behind a tree, whatever). But what's so special about the children that allows them to see the Dragoons? Besides that they were friends with eachother in the Lacryma dimension and their Lacryma counterparts happened to become Parallel beings? Presumably there's some more consistent explanation there somewhere?


Also what has me curious is when there is a dimensional instability that pauses time (such as the episode 2 fight between karasu and atori, or numerous times surrounding Haruka's use of the Dragon's Torque), why is Yuu in some cases free to move around and observe, and other times completely caught...is it purely his proximity to Haruka that matters in this case?
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Old 2005-12-28, 13:26   Link #42
Altharion
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being able to see dragoons doesnt limit to kids, in the preview of ep 12 you can see that yukie-chan is driving karasu to the place with the highest reize, it could be that the kids instruct her even though she doesnt see him but we wont know until the next ep, which is one reason i wanted a preview of ep 13 in ep 12.

now, the wanderer of time is more of an enigma, kinda like noein. it seems to me like noein has already obtained the power of the torque, maybe hakodate is shangri-la's past and yuu becomes noein after taking haruka's torque. only haruka can see the wanderer of time, we dont know if the dragoons can see him since they havent met him, but tobi interfered when he met haruka for the second time.
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Old 2005-12-28, 13:34   Link #43
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Where did you find the preview? It wasn't shown after the episode itself.
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Old 2005-12-28, 13:52   Link #44
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on the official site, there are pictures and if you add the translation of wao
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Old 2005-12-28, 19:43   Link #45
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Yeah, I still don't know how it's decided that some people can move and some cant. I guess for the people of Hakodate it's proximity to the Torque that matters, or maybe it's just some sort of time-space law that causes some things to be impossible... something like Karasu trying to grab the Torque off Haruka and finding it impossible?

But I still can't think of an explanation as to why nobody heard/saw all the fighting in ep 12.

btw, I might've mentioned it before but some characters are inspired b the works of Shirato Sanpei.

Somebody here looks uncannily familiar... and this too (later eps)...
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Old 2005-12-28, 20:43   Link #46
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hehe, nice finds

it seems that they have to prepare the torque before transporting it and they have to use that water jug machine to use it.
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Old 2005-12-29, 07:35   Link #47
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Who's Shirato Sanpei? A mangaka?
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Old 2005-12-29, 08:10   Link #48
wao
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Yeah. He's well known for writing ninja manga... very famous in Japan. Try reading this.

I found those pics off 2ch, btw.

edit: reading the official blog, it seems like Ryoochimo did the battle scene...?! I guess this is one animator to look out for in the future? and his real name is Ryousuke Sawa.
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Last edited by wao; 2005-12-30 at 07:03.
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Old 2005-12-30, 23:33   Link #49
Guardian Enzo
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I'm enjoying this show a lot (only up thru episode 8 so far) but I must confess, this wild jumping around with the animation directors is starting to make my head spin. I almost feel like I'm watching completely different characters every week. It's interesting, but I'm at the point where I wish things would settle down a bit, at least to where the differences aren't so stark.

Oddly, it almost seems as if the tone of the show is changing as dramatically as the animation. 7 was so dark and apocalyptic (matching the animation) while 8 was much warmer, funnier and conventional (again, matching). At it's best this series has an etheral quality that's hard to match, and Yuu's heart-wrenching unhappiness - and the obvious fact that Haruka is the only thing that makes him whole - is a great pillar to build around. Nothing can match Mushishi for quality this season IMO, but at its best (and that's only some of the time) Noein comes pretty close.
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Old 2005-12-31, 00:06   Link #50
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Who knows if the different animation styles is supposed to signify how there are multiple worlds?... Though if each animation style is a different world, my head REALLY will spin... Maybe that'll explain how NOBODY seemed to notice the fight in episode 12...

Apparently this is a Satelight thing though - their director, Kawamori, explicitly stated that it's the company policy to allow such things to happen. I think it's because all the correcting puts a lot of pressure on the animators and might make them unhappy, and he's expressing the interest of the animators to spend more time on the movement and less on the faces.

Usually I'd agree with that, but it mustn't be forgotten that the animation isn't the only part of the anime, even if it might be the most redeemable part of it. I think episode 2/7 just went too far - the art style completely destroyed the image of the characters, despite the story and voice and all (because obviously how a character is portrayed visually will definitely say a lot about it!!). There is a limit to how different you can make the images... and the thing is, there isn't even a real purpose behind it (I can still accept it if they look wildly different for comic purposes or because of extreme emotions or something like that). Yeah, that means I didn't really like Hakkenden 10 as a part of the series... if you consider it as a standalone thing though, then it's different...

I seriously do not wish that animation director to do anymore AD-ing for Noein. I'm sure I'm not entirely alone in saying I don't want to see everyone moe-fied and looking like the typical anime style, and especially where there's so much detail and shadows but little actually good movement...

EDIT: These white smilies are freaking me out a little...
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Old 2006-01-03, 23:47   Link #51
Splendiferous
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Does anyone know if there's an episode scheduled for this week?
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Old 2006-01-04, 00:18   Link #52
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No, there is no episode this week. Episode 14 ("Negai") airs on 1/10. Noein airs every Tuesday except for holidays.
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Old 2006-01-04, 02:11   Link #53
Splendiferous
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Thanks for the word Mr. Prophet
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Old 2006-01-04, 13:32   Link #54
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wao
Oh god. Episode 12 was, a, a, a, amazing...!
All I can say, wao, is thank you for that great post. You may be embarrassed about the mindless fangirling, but it wasn't mindless, it was good writing. This ep raised both the animation and the drama/emotion to higher levels. Thanks also to musouka and DaFool for thoughts about Haruka and friends. It's terrific that such straight-ahead SF gets subtle/complex characterization like this. This show, despite how little attention it seems to be getting, continues to amaze me. Does anyone know how it's doing in Japan? Maybe the mixture of the kids and their feelings with the hard SF alienates members of both audiences?

And thanks, MrProphet, for the word about this week's non-episode, which I was looking for.
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Old 2006-01-05, 08:32   Link #55
wao
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Well, for one thing, I think ratings aren't available because this is aired only on minor (UHF) stations. I'm not exactly sure why, perhaps it's not the case but I think shows on minor stations don't have ratings available... Which explains many comments I've read in the 2ch thread: 'surprising quality for a U-kyoku program'. It's got such a very small audience, and the budget can't be that good, but it's SO much better animated than super-high budget programs airing at primetime, islandwide on a well known station (cough GSD cough Blood+). Also, being anime this anime is of course airing at late-night on a UHF station. That's probably the best (or one of the best) way to have a TV program nobody knows about, I guess... Can't imagine any kids watching it... Yet they can put in so much.

There's just so much energy put into this - the official blog might seem like a marketing vehicle on the surface, and sometimes I think bayarin (one of the publicity people, I think it's Yukari Oobayashi) could give me a run for my money with her exuberence (and what seems suspiciously like fangirling.)... But there's also a surprising amount of comments by the staff and seiyuu: the animation director of ep 1, ep 5, a key key animator of ep 12, short interviews with some of the designers, as well as various various seiyuu (Karasu, Yuu, Haruka, Isami, Ai, Fukurou, Asuka etc., even Miho's mother's seiyuu who voices Gokan!) I kind of like how the blog owners are aware of the fan reactions to teh series because they mention how Atori, just like with the fans, is a hot and popular dude with the staff. Somebody made a little figurine of him too...

Adding in the fact that they allow all kinds of styles and let the animators work however they want, allowing a lot more room for innovative animation (and not flapping mouths! animation! Actual movement!), one gets the idea that this work is made for the staff to be able to... have fun, in a way. They get to try out their various styles, unrestrained, and the director gets to produce and direct his own story. Something like a testing ground, except it's an actual anime.

How does Satelight afford it? It's something I sincerely want to know. Do they fund a lot of the costs themselves? Or do the animators settle for lower pay in return for being allowed to experiment? Either way, if the quality continues,... I'm starting to find the notion of buying an R2, even if it's grossly expensive, worthwhile - at least if only to support such an inspiring organisation. (I don't know about ep 2/7's animation direcor, though. )
Then again, it might be that Magical Fangirl Power shining through. Must be unprecedentedly strong because it takes a helluva lot to get me to somehow scrape up just enough $ to buy a local legal VCD set, let alone consider getting a DVD, and an expensive, overseas R2 at that.

One possibility put forth by some fans is that this show is pitched at overseas audiences, hence the overseas-edition poster all the way back when, and a general story that can be fairly easily enjoyed by non-Japanese. (Well, SF is SF, I guess?)
I just hope they don't over-hype it, or you'll get a lot of backlash because of people complaining of overhype - and it's easy to miss some of the most valuable things about this show... A lot of people get too turned off by the inconsistent face designs (even I found ep 2 and 7 hard to watch. Okay, I'll stop complaining already...) Also, on the surface it really seems like a typical alternate-universe girl-with-special powers thing. I once read someone saying that Satelight works are an acquired taste...

...A lot of shows are taking breaks for the holidays, I can't wait to watch a new episode next week. I wonder how they'll continue the story - I guess things will start building up seriously now? The kids can't continue living a totally peaceful, unaffected life now, I should think, given the unfolding of events described in recent episodes.

And frankly speaking, Kaoru Chujo, I must disagree with you - that was really a terrible post. Even this post beats out that pile of dung by a lot. I feel embarassed reading it...
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Old 2006-01-05, 20:36   Link #56
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can you translate some of the blog and the interviews?

it would really help a desperate fandude :P
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Old 2006-01-05, 23:56   Link #57
MrProphet
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Overhype? Please, Noein has nothing on crap like My-Hime/My-Otome. If you want fanboy hype, look that way... 8)

If anything, Noein is somwhat being put down in the regular circles for it's non-standard, non-moe, unstable style of animation.
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Old 2006-01-06, 06:50   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo
This show, despite how little attention it seems to be getting, continues to amaze me. Does anyone know how it's doing in Japan? Maybe the mixture of the kids and their feelings with the hard SF alienates members of both audiences?

And thanks, MrProphet, for the word about this week's non-episode, which I was looking for.
I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. Why would the popularity (or rather lack of it in this case) affect your amazement factor? Are you saying you would find it more/less amazing if it was more popular?

Personally I couldn't give a damn about the popularity of a show I like, as long as it doesn't affect the show in any way i.e. that it isn't taken off the air due to lack of popularity. As long as the show gets a full run and I am able to watch it either fansubbed or through purchasing the DVD right the way through to the end I'll be happy. Being a scifi fan I've experienced this all too often with some of my favourite shows being cancelled before the creators behind it were through telling their stories.

You could say the popularity does matter because it will breed more discussion on the forums but as can be seen from this thread you only need a couple of able and willing posters to make for some excellent discussion. I'd personally love to get more involved in the discussion of the show but as usual I've fallen behind on the episodes(currently just watched episode 4) and I generally find quite a few people watch the raws so I usually try to stay away from the threads until I've finished the series. By which point most people have moved on to other shows
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Old 2006-01-06, 10:26   Link #59
wao
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No, I mean overhyped as in "too much for a series to handle" sort of thing. What I mean is that I hope Noein, when eventually released in other places, gets enough exposure but not a whole lot because it isn't that type of popular series that can... "handle" the overhype. I'm hoping it gets targeted at the right audience and have good success but not so much so that it gets too many negative remarks due to it's uncharacteristic nature in some bits... I don't know if you get what I mean. It won't affect how good the actual show is, but I'm just hoping so for teh sake of the creators and all.

But if you mean living up to hype... then I agree with you, at the current moment this show is just really underappreciated. It can't be helped though, it's MFI and it just didn't attract enough fans somehow or another. As for Japanese communities, I can't say anything for sure but I think it's largely ignored because it's on a minor channel at an odd time. Whereas stuff like My-Otome gets TV Tokyo, aka the channel for anime-lovers... it's as main as a main channel can get, I guess.
Perhaps it's somehow reflected onto the English circles - not enough... transfer from J circles to E circles in the form of fan-things ranging from pictures on imageboards to actual raws (raws of Noein aren't all that common) so you end up with people seeing not even a picture of it, let alone knowing what kind of show it is. And also with barriers on subs... :\

Of course, as much as I am a mindless fangirl of this show, I won't hesitate to say it's got its flaws, because every person sees it quite differently. However, to cut things short I that so far, it's one of the best executed stories of this type. I just think the characterization could be done a bit better in some bits (esp. regarding Yuu)
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Old 2006-01-06, 13:00   Link #60
MrProphet
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"Hype" is when people are making more out of something than there actually is. Like claiming (out of fanboy/fangirl emotions) that a show is outstanding when it actually is just a regular anime that has aspects that appeal to certain people (like moe).

In this respect, I consider Noein to be the opposite of a hyped-up show, since most anime fans seem to consider it to be actually inferior than it really is. This sentiment spreads and the show is being widely regarded as something very non-mainstream, marginal and not really worth wasting any time on...

Mostly it is because of the animation that is absolutely nothing like the usual bishounen/bishoujo anime style. How many people saw and liked Fantastic Children (apart from a bunch of Nakamura followers?). Not many.

Another factor is a non-standard storyline that gets really confusing at times and I think some consider it non-engaging.

The crazy fighting scenes somewhat offset these difficulties, but it isn't enough. Noein seems to me like a show that is very close to Gankutsuoh. It's just nothing like the anime that we see regularily and people are somewhat intimidated by its complexity in all aspects (animation, characters, story, etc.)

The end result is that a show like that would probably have limited appeal with a Japanese audience. Western audience might like it more, but I not by much. Certainly, the storyline and the show in general are more, shall we say, marketable in the West.
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