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Old 2007-02-12, 12:07   Link #21
Rurik
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This thread will have a short time of life....one thing about the Oro comment..that was referring Itachi is stronger than He is and after that Sentence Orochmaru said thats the reason why He left Akatsuki.

To Put the Sentence in a way you can understand:

Orochimaru Left Akatsuki because Itachi was/is stronger than Him. and as Stated, Oro left Akatsuki 7 years ago, Oro words were not based on his current state.
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Old 2007-02-12, 12:27   Link #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLegend View Post
Hiraishinn no Jutsu(teleporting) owns all!!!!, if you think logically there is nothing to discuss about. In any battle, Teleporting is the best manueverable Jutsu as it can get, there is nothing to think about, NO freaking MS or any justsu can Match up to teleportion any Manga/ Comic/ Marvel/ CS and etc in terms of usefulness. And there is no doubt he lives up to his names Yellow FLash, and with his Speedy jutsus, there shouldn't be any debate he is the fastest Ninja.
Lol at the great Marvel vs. The Yondaime debate.

Why make a thread about being "sick and tired" of Itachi vs. Yondaime arguements when you contradict yourself by stating how freakin' awesome the Yondaime is? It makes you sound like kinda flame bait.
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Old 2007-02-12, 12:33   Link #23
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Like Shinny! View Post
Why make a thread about being "sick and tired" of Itachi vs. Yondaime arguements when you contradict yourself by stating how freakin' awesome the Yondaime is? It makes you sound like kinda flame bait.
That is precisely the point!

Any of these strength related discussion thread, or a versus argument thread always leads to a lot of grief, insult, harrassment, and trolling from both sides of the argument. I took the liberty to merge the newly created "You say Itachi is stronger..." thread with this to serve it as a reminder how pointless this kind of discussion can be. We have one too many threads on Itachi to allow any more Itachi related threads.
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Old 2007-02-12, 12:51   Link #24
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hiraishin is not a teleport jutsu...it is a teleportation through A SEAL! the time you tried to put a seal to somewhere itachis freaking speed and doujutsu kills you instantly...
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Old 2007-02-12, 16:59   Link #25
nine_tailed_kyuubi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess-sama View Post
When Kisame and Itachi came to catch naruto they found that his caretaker is Jiraya.kisame said to itachi u might be able to fight him but i cant.
itachi replied : no if we both fought him we would be killed or if we have a good situation we might be able to kill him we el result will be the same even if we increase our number,which indicates that Jiraya is stronger than both of them !!! because both of them need to fight him not itachi alone.
Orochimaru and Jiraya are close in their levels , When Orochimaru said if i had uchiha itachi to begin with that wouldnt have been a problem but it's an impossible dream NOW he is stronger than me , y NOW ? because he just lost his arms in the fight with sarutobi , to begin with : means in old times when itachi was alone not in the Akatsuke at that time most prob Orochimaru hadn't developed the immortality tech , and when he developed it Itachi was already in AKatsuke so i dont think he would be able to do that now that Itachi is in Akatsuke..
Agreed , plus no one ever said in manga or anime that the reason Orochimaru left Akatsuke was because of Itachi, it seems he left the Akatsuke because he got his own plans, even if itachi was stronger than him there will be no need for him to leave as they are in the same group and have the same goals so Itachi won't kill him if he was stronger. I agree that Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi untill he lost his arms. If Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru then Jiraya is insanely stronger than Orochimaru which i don't think is right.
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Old 2007-02-12, 17:16   Link #26
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_tailed_kyuubi View Post
Agreed , plus no one ever said in manga or anime that the reason Orochimaru left Akatsuke was because of Itachi, it seems he left the Akatsuke because he got his own plans, even if itachi was stronger than him there will be no need for him to leave as they are in the same group and have the same goals so Itachi won't kill him if he was stronger. I agree that Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi untill he lost his arms. If Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru then Jiraya is insanely stronger than Orochimaru which i don't think is right.
It seems you are reading a different story, Because it was said in anime and Manga that Oro left because Itachi, his words can't be much clearer than that:


"Itahci is stronger than me, that’s why I left That Organization"

Now, We don’t know if This was due to Oro been Egoistical about Itachi been stronger than him, or because he tried to take over Itachi, but he got his ass kicked; the majority of people here Believes its the second choice.

And Then, We dont know if Jiraiya is stronger than Itachi, I think this thread needs to be closed before this turns into an ugly scene.
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Old 2007-02-12, 17:21   Link #27
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Creating a thread like this would be someting like saying;

I'm so god damn tired of all these Naruto + Sakura, Sasuske + Sakura, Shimamaru + Temari, who cares? It's a stupid animè, we watch the cool ninjas fight, it's not a friggin love story, go buy a romance novel!

And besides everyone knows it's gonna be Naruto and Hinata in the end anyways!
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Old 2007-02-12, 17:25   Link #28
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Orochimaru never mentioned about other akatsuki's as stronger,
Spoiler for manga:

Last edited by monir; 2007-02-13 at 12:38. Reason: Must use CLEARLY MARKED spoiler tags in this thread! Please read the BAN-rule.
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Old 2007-02-12, 17:30   Link #29
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i just watched episode 81 again and Orochimaru said if i could have gotten a hold of Uchiha Itachi to begin with, there would not have been a problem. But that is an impossible dream NOWWWWW, he is stronger than me. That's it , he didn't say that's y i left the organization. Next time just correct me if i'm wrong and don't say i'm watching a different story cuz u just made up something in the story which does not exist, that is why all the people believe that Oro left the Akatsuke because Itachi is stronger!!! How about the leader then , isn't he the strongest of them all !!!! Oro has his own plans, nothing about any clash between him and itachi was stated. Y did he wait for his arms to vanish to say that Itachi is stronger NOW ? Who do you think is stronger Jiraya or Orochimaru ? if you answer this question you will definitely know that Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi
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Old 2007-02-12, 17:52   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_tailed_kyuubi View Post
i just watched episode 81 again and Orochimaru said if i could have gotten a hold of Uchiha Itachi to begin with, there would not have been a problem. But that is an impossible dream NOWWWWW, he is stronger than me. That's it , he didn't say that's y i left the organization. Next time just correct me if i'm wrong and don't say i'm watching a different story cuz u just made up something in the story which does not exist, that is why all the people believe that Oro left the Akatsuke because Itachi is stronger!!!
Sight, It is not Permitted to Post Scan here, so I would point you out the Chapter and page where it was mentioned; because or either, you are hitting pause before Oro say “that’s Why I left the organization” which was said precisely in the moment Oros Rings is shown Or you just have a wrong translated Episode (which I doubt).

In the Manga is Chapter 140 page 6 say this, take note on the sentence and the ideas:

“If we could had gotten a Hold of Itachi we would'nt had any problem, but that is an impossible dream…”

“Because He is Even stronger than me.. That’s why I left that organization

In other words, yeah, You are Seen another story.

Quote:
How about the leader then , isn't he the strongest of them all !!!!
That’s is not knonw, that’s is not relevant; Oro said He left Because Itachi is stronger than Him, not because Itachi is the stronger Member in Akatsuki.

And as this series has shown you, the leader doesn’t have to be the strongest person in the group.

Quote:
Oro has his own plans, nothing about any clash between him and itachi was stated. Y did he wait for his arms to vanish to say that Itachi is stronger NOW ?
He didn’t wait to say that, The author decided to put it there because it was Introduction to Itachi and Akatsuki. And Oro didn’t even say “He is stronger now”, that’s it is still a mistranslation, and A very Bad one I might add.

Quote:
Who do you think is stronger Jiraya or Orochimaru ? if you answer this question you will definitely know that Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi
What does Jiraiya has to do with this? It doesn’t matter if Jiraiya is Stronger or not than Oro. Weather Jiraiya is stronger than Itachi, that’s unknown. BTW, You seem to not be a Manga reader.

Spoiler for Manga:
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Old 2007-02-12, 18:11   Link #31
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Hmm...I like Yondaime vs XXX comic character more than what this thread really is about.

How about Itachi? can he also defeat/be defeated by most xxx comic characters? Like The Flash? Batman? Supes? Doomsday?

Maybe whoever can defeat the most/strongest comic characters should be the stronger one.

Personally, I think Yondaime can defeat Batman, I mean, sure Batman is a genius, but how can he possibly know all of Yellow Flash's ninjutsus? Surely the element of surprise should be able to defeat the almighty Batman.
Similarly, Itachi should be able to own Batman pretty easily too...unless Batman wears some sort of super sunglasses, in which case, it's a whole diff' story.

I don't see how Yondaime could defeat Supes or Hulk, but maybe Itachi, with his illusionary world of DOOM, may put a dent in Supes' morale. Hulk would just get mad and smash Itachi's illusion world. In that sense, maybe Itachi's Tsukiyomi is better than Yondie's Hiraishin.
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Old 2007-02-12, 18:29   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Sight, It is not Permitted to Post Scan here
I thought, posting a part of a scan (just like posting a part of a translation or the original lines) is permitted to provide information during a discussion (translation might also be considered to have equal value as the picture itself).

Maybe, mods will help clarify that.
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Old 2007-02-12, 19:13   Link #33
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
I thought, posting a part of a scan (just like posting a part of a translation or the original lines) is permitted to provide information during a discussion (translation might also be considered to have equal value as the picture itself).

Maybe, mods will help clarify that.
As I’ve been told, You can only post scan to for the purpose of Showing graphical Scene, things that are too hard to explain with words, but what is not permitted is posting a Scanlated Page with the sole purpose of showing what a Character said.

Of course, there are sometimes when you cant show something graphical without including the Text, because editing this page could tamper with what oyu want to show, this are permitted. Nightwish was the one that clarified that for me some months ago, you can ask him for more details.
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Old 2007-02-12, 19:18   Link #34
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
I thought, posting a part of a scan (just like posting a part of a translation or the original lines) is permitted to provide information during a discussion (translation might also be considered to have equal value as the picture itself).

Maybe, mods will help clarify that.
Sazelyt is correct! One or two pages are allowed as long as those links don't point to any downloading sites for licensed material.

Read more about it here.

edit: After reading Rurik's post, I'll inquire about it a bit more. For now, I'll permit Rurik to post that page if he wants. I'm curious about that development too. In the anime, Oro definitely doesn't specifically say he got out of the Akatsuki because of Itachi.
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Old 2007-02-12, 19:59   Link #35
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Let me clarify:

The manga is licensed so, in general, full page scans and translations, or information about sites with such content, are expressly forbidden. This is your starting point, if you are unsure... start with this assumption.

However, we're not trying to stop you talking about the manga, which we understand is a visual medium and often needs visual elements to fully explain itself. So, from this assumption you can start to think about the "fair-use" concept.

Our position is roughly as Rurik described: If the point you are trying to make cannot be made without a visual example, we are probably going to allow you to make a post containing a partial page scan. Partial. In other words, a crop of the page. Provided it does not contain edits aimed at translating the content from its official print form. That is, if it was printed in Japanese, it must remain so. Likewise, if it is from the official English release of the manga, we are not worried about the speech being readable in English. What you are NOT permitted to post under any circumstances is a FAN translated version of the page. In rare cases a sensible crop (to focus on your point) might not be possible, we understand this too. If a full page is really the only way to explain your point them so be it. Such posts will probably be acceptable if kept to a minimum.

Now, if the point you are trying to make requires not visual element... then posting the image simply isn't needed. If you want to quote some of the text, then that is fine... just don't quote whole pages or chapters verbatim. The important point here is that we want to avoid the dissemination of anything that allows people to avoid the purchase of an official English release, while still promoting meaningful discussion. I think it's pretty straight forward... but if you're not sure just ask Only... not in this thread please
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Old 2007-02-12, 20:05   Link #36
Rurik
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Here it is, I borrowed it from an Old post made by Shuriken Jay....
---- So, for the love of God..Can I or Can't I post the Page---

One Important note, by that time, I asked for a re-translation on this page because I didn't find the word "JOIN" as proper.

Part for the words been used here should be as this scan, however the correct translation as I asked NJT about, it has "If we had gotten Hold of Itachi..." as I think this is Referring to Oro using Itachi as a Body container and not Itachi fighting Alongside Oro's forces.

As People Who don't know who is NJT, NJT is a Poster of Another forum that has a very high reputation when it comes to correcting Incorrect translation.

Monir, in the meantime...Yes in the Manga After he say "Itachi is stronger than me" then he go on And say "Thats why I left the organization", there is pause between this two sentences, However, On how the Sentences are made up, there wasn't any Intention of the author to leave why Oro left Akatsuki forr for interpretation, or so it seems.

Basically what I posted earlier is what the translated Chapter say. and it is Page 5 of chapter 140
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Last edited by Rurik; 2007-02-12 at 20:21.
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Old 2007-02-12, 21:00   Link #37
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Originally Posted by NightWish View Post
... you can start to think about the "fair-use" concept.

Our position is roughly as Rurik described: If the point you are trying to make cannot be made without a visual example, we are probably going to allow you to make a post containing a partial page scan. Partial. In other words, a crop of the page. Provided it does not contain edits aimed at translating the content from its official print form. That is, if it was printed in Japanese, it must remain so. Likewise, if it is from the official English release of the manga, we are not worried about the speech being readable in English. What you are NOT permitted to post under any circumstances is a FAN translated version of the page. In rare cases a sensible crop (to focus on your point) might not be possible, we understand this too. If a full page is really the only way to explain your point them so be it. Such posts will probably be acceptable if kept to a minimum.
That is a good explanation.

I have posted after I checked the forum rules, recalled my experiences in this forum, and observed the conflict there, which is mainly caused by the exceptions that are considered within the fair-use concept.

However, since anyone can experience the same kind of conflict and still not sure about which path to take, I would suggest an update to the general forum rules, since it is the first place people check and it is not as detailed as your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Here it is, I borrowed it from an Old post made by Shuriken Jay....
---- So, for the love of God..Can I or Can't I post the Page---

Part for the words been used here should be as this scan, however the correct translation as I asked NJT about, it has "If we had gotten Hold of Itachi..." as I think this is Referring to Oro using Itachi as a Body container and not Itachi fighting Alongside Oro's forces.

Monir, in the meantime...Yes in the Manga After he say "Itachi is stronger than me" then he go on And say "Thats why I left the organization", there is pause between this two sentences, However, On how the Sentences are made up, there wasn't any Intention of the author to leave why Oro left Akatsuki forr for interpretation, or so it seems.

Basically what I posted earlier is what the translated Chapter say. and it is Page 5 of chapter 140
To start another long discussion, I am tempted to borrow from one of my old posts on the same topic. But, I won't do it, at least now.

However, if I am not mistaken, because of the god protection Itachi is blessed with, we have not received a response from a native Japanese speaker to put the final dot on the translation of the given sentence. I still consider the sentence as having a meaning somewhere between being stronger and not being stronger (mainly because of the pause that can lead to different directions acceptably in different languages).
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Old 2007-02-12, 22:09   Link #38
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Thanks for the clarification, NightWish!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Here it is, I borrowed it from an Old post made by Shuriken Jay....
---- So, for the love of God..Can I or Can't I post the Page---
Yes you can, provided the page is RAW and it doesn't give away any information regarding who scanned it , and what not. It would be even better if you can crop the image just to display the specific, or in this case, the image that shows Oro's admission of "he left Akatsuki because of Itachi." That said, you cannot post any image of scantalation.
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Old 2007-02-12, 23:28   Link #39
I Like Shinny!
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Originally Posted by LittleLaptopChan View Post
Hmm...I like Yondaime vs XXX comic character more than what this thread really is about.

How about Itachi? can he also defeat/be defeated by most xxx comic characters? Like The Flash? Batman? Supes? Doomsday?

Maybe whoever can defeat the most/strongest comic characters should be the stronger one.

Personally, I think Yondaime can defeat Batman, I mean, sure Batman is a genius, but how can he possibly know all of Yellow Flash's ninjutsus? Surely the element of surprise should be able to defeat the almighty Batman.
Similarly, Itachi should be able to own Batman pretty easily too...unless Batman wears some sort of super sunglasses, in which case, it's a whole diff' story.

I don't see how Yondaime could defeat Supes or Hulk, but maybe Itachi, with his illusionary world of DOOM, may put a dent in Supes' morale. Hulk would just get mad and smash Itachi's illusion world. In that sense, maybe Itachi's Tsukiyomi is better than Yondie's Hiraishin.
Lol at Hulk smash puny illusion.

I would love to the Yondaime and the Flash go at it. They'd need to get out the high speed camera.

The yondaime could beat Itachi if he just keeps his eyes closed the whole time. Yeah... that's a fool proof plain right there.
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Old 2007-02-13, 10:04   Link #40
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
However, if I am not mistaken, because of the god protection Itachi is blessed with, we have not received a response from a native Japanese speaker to put the final dot on the translation of the given sentence. I still consider the sentence as having a meaning somewhere between being stronger and not being stronger (mainly because of the pause that can lead to different directions acceptably in different languages).
Well, If you are talking about the Translation itself, yes, this is the correct translation given by a Japanense translator, a source which is the best translation you can find by far, not to mention that his Wife is Japanese also, not to mention this particular sentence has been agree that it is like that amongst all the Naruto Translation community. In this case this is not Protection to Itachi, this is the real Translation.


Also, I don’t think you have to be the best translator in the universe, to notice the difference between a sentence that implies He is stronger than me, and He isn’t stronger than me.

As in Fact:
Spoiler:


At this point in the game denying that Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru, is just denying a fact. Now you can debate about the pause between Orochimaru saying Itachi is stronger than Him, and when he say He left Akatsuki, as to debate that Itachi wasn’t the reason for Oro left Akatsuki.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2007-02-13 at 10:39.
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